Battery Voltages -- Surprise!

[Scottbee]

Interesting developments to say the least. I will need to follow these threads more closely.

I agree. What we're trying to figure out right now is if the change is unique to the "SE" version of the Riva.... or if there was a functional change made across the board at some point and we just didn't know about it.

If the latter is the case.... sheeeesh.... what a mess!

 

[Scottbee]

Per an agreement with Liberty Flights, I will also be testing the Black SE batteries, along with "new stock" of a non-SE Riva. So some additional and probably interesting information will be forthcoming in the near future.

 

[Switched]

I agree. What we're trying to figure out right now is if the change is unique to the "SE" version of the Riva.... or if there was a functional change made across the board at some point and we just didn't know about it.

If the latter is the case.... sheeeesh.... what a mess!

Ya, I hate when they go an change things without letting folks know. If it is an "SE" exclusive that I am good with that.

Now to some interesting data. I own en eGo, I fabricated a wooden eGo with an AW 18650 under the hood and a VV eGo with switching regulator. To me the standard eGo performs better than the 3.7V model. Does PWM have anything to do with it? I believe so, even though it only delivers an avg 3.2V under load. OTOH the VV model outshines them all.

What does this mean? Hell I don't know. Is this entirely subjective? Don't know either. As I haven't tried the clones.

Interesting developments, oooh yeah. I like backing up subjectivity with technical data as plausible explanations Keep up the good work Scott.

 

[Quitter]

I did some poking around and can't seem to find any distributor that carries the SE version of the Riva. Anyone know who does?

The idea of an aGo device that's a true 3.7v is very appealing. I have a Joye eGo unit and run it with both a Tornado tank (semi disappointing) and Boge 2.0 ohm cartos (better, but still too far short of my main vape - 6v Prodigy V2 w/Boge cartos).

I really love the form factor of the eGo but even with LR cartos & atty's, it still just vapes like a regular 3v 510. It's my hope that a true 3.7v battery system with a 2 ohm carto will satisfy enough to make me run the eGo full time. I know it won't match the Prodigy, but if it comes close enough I'll go with it.

 

[Scottbee]

I did some poking around and can't seem to find any distributor that carries the SE version of the Riva. Anyone know who does?

Liberty Flights carries them. I don't know who else at this point.

 

[markfm]

Does it stay at the 3.7 up until near cutoff? (Near the drain point where it flashes and stops doing anything until recharged.) Thanks!

 

[Scottbee]

Does it stay at the 3.7 up until near cutoff? (Near the drain point where it flashes and stops doing anything until recharged.) Thanks!

No. On the unit that I tested it was a traditional discharge curve with a cutoff at about 3.25V. On the test equipment it looked a lot like a Trustfire 14500.

 

[markfm]

So the net is losing consistency for a warmer vape up front. About a 1.5W change on a 2 ohm carto over the course of use. Not necessarily bad, just a data point. Thanks.

 

[supremekizzle]

I really hope they didn't change across the board. I would rather have consistency and battery life than a warmer vape. Anyone going to test the egos to make sure they didn't foul those up too? Please get back with the results of the other riva batteries. I'm about to convert a few people and I know they would get discouraged if it isn't consistent anymore. Thanks.

 

[Katya]

I really hope they didn't change across the board. I would rather have consistency and battery life than a warmer vape. Anyone going to test the egos to make sure they didn't foul those up too? Please get back with the results of the other riva batteries. I'm about to convert a few people and I know they would get discouraged if it isn't consistent anymore. Thanks.

I really wouldn't worry about it. I have both kinds and they both work very well. The differences are subtle and not game-changing in any way (unless, of course, one uses LR cartos or atties). I do feel that the SE delivers a bit stronger hit at the beginning, but then the voltage sags and I really can't tell the difference between the regular and the SE. But then I started with the kr808 batteries so I'm somewhat used to this sagging voltage and it doesn't bother me all that much.

If you're really worried, just order the non-SE batteries. Or the eGos.

 

[Kelemvor]

he is worried that all other batteries may follow this route.
i use mostly egos because of the nearly constant Power output, if i want unregulated voltage i use my SB with one or two atomizers.

 

[Scottbee]

Anyone going to test the egos to make sure they didn't foul those up too?

I have recently tested an eGo 900mAH, eGo USB passthru, and an eGo-T battery. All of them still use a form of PWM, although the pulse width algorithm has been changed (slightly) compared to the "older" original version.

 

[Switched]

I have recently tested an eGo 900mAH, eGo USB passthru, and an eGo-T battery. All of them still use a form of PWM, although the pulse width algorithm has been changed (slightly) compared to the "older" original version.

Scott,

In layman's terms what does changing the pulse width do if anything, IYO? Strictly speaking of the old and new eGos.

 

[Scottbee]

Scott,

In layman's terms what does changing the pulse width do if anything, IYO? Strictly speaking of the old and new eGos.

I'll give it my best shot! Here are a couple of traces from the "old original eGo" style battery:

And although I've already posted quite a few traces from the "newer" style eGo system (900mAH, USB, "T"...) here's another reference trace:

Due to the non-repeating pulse widths it's pretty hard to figure out exactly what was going on with the original PWM. It's difficult to make good RMS voltage calculations and "reverse engineer" it. But I do know that on the batteries that I have, the PWM "turns off" when the cell voltage gets down to about 3.45 volts and the unit puts out pretty much straight DC after that.

The newer style eGo systems is a lot easier to figure out. The pulse width is varied as a function of the cell voltage, and the net result is that over the charge life of the cell you get a fairly consistent effective RMS vaping voltage... but it's a reduced voltage, less than the peak or nominal voltage that you can get from a unregulated 3.7V battery.

 

[Ralph T]

....snip ......

Due to the non-repeating pulse widths it's pretty hard to figure out exactly what was going on with the original PWM. It's difficult to make good RMS voltage calculations and "reverse engineer" it. But I do know that on the batteries that I have, the PWM "turns off" when the cell voltage gets down to about 3.45 volts and the unit puts out pretty much straight DC after that.

The newer style eGo systems is a lot easier to figure out. The pulse width is varied as a function of the cell voltage, and the net result is that over the charge life of the cell you get a fairly consistent effective RMS vaping voltage... but it's a reduced voltage, less than the peak or nominal voltage that you can get from a unregulated 3.7V battery.

Therefore less power, and a cooler vape than an unregulated battery. More consistent performance at a lower power.

 

[WillyB]

It's getting harder to tell what is what.

Is the Riva an SLB product?

Seems SLB has no qualms about using the Janty logo, packaging or name.

E-Cigarette eGo_Products Detail_SHENZHEN SAILEBAO TECHNOLOGY CO.,LTD

 

[Scottbee]

Therefore less power, and a cooler vape than an unregulated battery. More consistent performance at a lower power.

Can't argue with that......

(Probably also get a little more effective "battery life" between charges)

 

[Scottbee]

It's getting harder to tell what is what.

Is the Riva an SLB product?

No, I don't believe so. The ones that I have torn apart have internals made by Hello/Helo. But that's not to say that this hasn't changed.

Interesting SLB picture that you posted though.... labeled "eGo", but with a "Riva-style" battery.

Sheeeesh......

 

[Ralph T]

Can't argue with that......

(Probably also get a little more effective "battery life" between charges)

I was just further translating your version of layman's terms, into something even I could understand.

 

[Katya]

I'll give it my best shot! The newer style eGo systems is a lot easier to figure out. The pulse width is varied as a function of the cell voltage, and the net result is that over the charge life of the cell you get a fairly consistent effective RMS vaping voltage... but it's a reduced voltage, less than the peak or nominal voltage that you can get from a unregulated 3.7V battery.

Scottbee, are you saying that the working voltage in the newer eGos is further reduced in comparison to the old style eGos? I'm slow, please forgive me.

It's getting harder to tell what is what.

Is the Riva an SLB product?

Seems SLB has no qualms about using the Janty logo, packaging or name.

Oh great. So now SLB is selling Riva batteries in eGo boxes?