Another on another thread was suggesting that the 4.2V is still only the 'off charger' voltage, which then immediately goes to 3.7v - though he hadn't tested it.
Battery Voltages -- Surprise!
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Another on another thread was suggesting that the 4.2V is still only the 'off charger' voltage, which then immediately goes to 3.7v - though he hadn't tested it.
This originally posted by badkolo at http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...atts-cone-5-tc-clearomizers-stock-now-22.html on 8-20-11:
Using these numbers and the simple average of a range where a range is shown and then dividing by the blue, one gets:
5 bars
VU:red 0.754 purple 0.893 blue 1.0
VL: red 0.756 purple 0.905 blue 1.0
3 bars
VU:red 0.762 purple 0.906 blue 1.0
VL:red 0.757 purple 0.904 blue 1.0
Going to 2 bars
VU:red 0.763 purple 0.904 blue 1.0
VL:red 0.756 purple 0.893 blue 1.0
Seems to me to be about a 75-76% duty at red, 89-90% duty at purple and 100% or so at blue. 100% is, of course, same as Riva. Note 4.2, unloaded, just off charger. Meter used here is non-RMS meter. RMS voltage as related to average voltages shown would be average voltage divided by square root of the duty (duty expressed as fraction).
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One lesson that I have learned is to not trust "loaded" numbers on a PWM device unless they were determined by a True RMS device.. and I mean a "True RMS" device, not one that does a RMS calculation based on the 60Hz sine wave algorithm.
But I digress.
But I digress.
I could be wrong - but not sure a sine wave figures into DC readings. I think what the DC, non-RMS meter is approximating is an average voltage. Some meters do it better than others. But in the case of the data provided by badkolo (DC reads), it is the relative readings that is more meaningful. As long as the bad (or good) readings are consistently bad (or good), conclusion would be same. On an eGo one would expect the duty to increase as pre-board, batt voltage drops* through the discharge cycle. Not the case with the badkolo data. But agree, "True RMS" meter reads would be much better data as to what is going on.
*The bars on the LED evidencing drop of pre-board, batt voltage. Also, if characteristic of eGo type regulation, one would expect the DC loaded reads to be fairly constant (or increasing as in Rockman's experiments) as discharge progresses. Not case with badkolo data.
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Got my Madvapes vv box mod in the mail yesterday, FWIW. Set a little above the mid position on the voltage control, it produces huge clouds of lingering vapor from a 100% PG juice. If the control is linear, then that's probably about 4vdc or maybe a little more, since the device is a 0v-7v that uses two Ultrafire 14500 protected batts. This is a good deal for $35 plus the cost of the batteries. As with all HV devices, it's a dripper atty device. I'm using an 801 thread Little Dwarf drip atty at 3 ohms. 2 drops ... two great tasting puffs, then repeat.
Sounds interesting. Why do you say "dripper atty device"? Tanks and cartos will work on it - will they not? At mid position - any notice of heat from box? How about taste of what you found worked well on eGo (or Riva) - as good? better? $35 not too far off the price of the variable eGo clone (better description probably variable Riva clone) and much wider range of selectable voltages.
I'm sure any 3 ohm carto or atomizer will work fine on it, especially the dual coil clearos. I just happened to have the 801 Little Dripper atty that doesn't produce good vapor from a 3.x battery. It blossoms on the vv box. All of my Boge cartos are 2 ohm, so I use them on standard batts.
Heat hasn't been a problem so far. I can feel slight warmth on the side where the atty and electronics are located, but when I open the box and touch the components, the heat is concentrated on the bottom side of the atty connector and the circuit board is just slightly warm. The components are in one of the battery slots and the connections are potted with clear RTV sealant. The back and underside of the PCB is exposed, except on the ends where some RTV is there to stabilize the mounting. The voltage control pot is connected to the box and soldered to the PCB. The PCB itself is pressed on one end into the RTV sealant (a good thing for stability). There are no exposed connections, other than the back side of the PCB, that are not encased in RTV and that's a good thing. You don't want shorts with high drain batteries!
The vapor using a 3 ohm atty is easily twice the volume that you get from a LR Boge carto on 3.4v and the throat hit is more like what you get from a cigarette ... not harsh. That's with the voltage control in about the 60%-70% position. I don't know if the calibration is linear or not. My 100% PG RY4 that is a little harsh on eGo batts is smooth and tasty or the vv mod. Overall, I'm impressed.
I expected to get lots of dissipated heat when operating in mid range voltages, but I'm not seeing that. Yes, there's some warmth if you hit it hard for a few minutes, but it's minimal, really. I've thought about installing a digital voltmeter on the box, but there's no room inside. I might try putting a small DVM module on the side and run the wires through a couple of tiny holes underneath, slide some spaghetti tube over them and solder to the atty connector. It would be nice to see what voltage you are vaping. Right now, as it comes assembled, I'd have to slice the RTV sealant to expose the atty connector wiring and piggyback the leads. That will be a future project.
Edit: I have gotten a little nic buzz playing with this thing. I can see why people are saying that vv gets them off cigarettes. The extra voltage, IMO, produces better nic concentration in the vape as well as a thicker cloud, obviously. The biggest improvement is that I'm seeing huge vapor with just right throat hit. I'm not one for harsh vapes. Like I said before, TH is about equal to a cigarette.
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Update on the Madvapes vv box mod. This thing just came in yesterday, so I'm still experimenting with it. I filled up a 3.3 ohm XL clearomizer from Awesome Vapor and it rocks. I'm getting great vapor (huge clouds!) and taste. These clearos hold about 1.5ml of juice and are single coil, BTW.
The connector for the atty is recessed flush with the top of the box, but any atty that doesn't have a shoulder will screw right on. eGo type Tanks that cover the outside threads of the battery like a cone will need an adapter to 510 atomizer type threads, but anything that looks like a standard carto or 510 atomizer will work as long as the length of the threads are visible from a side view.
I'm still getting that satisfied, don't need a cig feeling from this mod!
The connector for the atty is recessed flush with the top of the box, but any atty that doesn't have a shoulder will screw right on. eGo type Tanks that cover the outside threads of the battery like a cone will need an adapter to 510 atomizer type threads, but anything that looks like a standard carto or 510 atomizer will work as long as the length of the threads are visible from a side view.
I'm still getting that satisfied, don't need a cig feeling from this mod!
A bit more thought to the non-RMS meter testing of the variable selection, eGo type device mentioned by badkolo. Using the square root relationship mentioned, I calculate the RMS voltages as follows:
5 bars
VL: red 3.39 purple 3.72 blue 3.90
3 bars
VL:red 3.21 purple 3.52 blue 3.68
Going to 2 bars
VL:red 3.04 purple 3.29 blue 3.49
Since 3 ohms at atty, watts would be:
5 bars
VL: red 3.83 purple 4.61 blue 5.07
3 bars
VL:red 3.43 purple 4.13 blue 4.51
Going to 2 bars
VL:red 3.08 purple 3.61 blue 4.06
2 decimal accuracy is not justified so results should be rounded further. Range of 3 to 5 watts with 3 ohm atty.
A 3 ohm atty is weak to me on a 3.4v battery and not really robust on 3.7v
Traveling above that point to 4.2v you get 5.9 watts. At 5v you get a sweet 8.33 watts. There's a difference except some juices don't respond well at 8 watts and you may be better off at a lower voltage. That most likely has something to do with the reason people disagree on certain juices.
Throw a 2 ohm atty on that battery and set it at 3.7v and you get 6.8 watts. At 4.2v it's running at 8.82 watts ... the sweet spot for some vapers.
Traveling above that point to 4.2v you get 5.9 watts. At 5v you get a sweet 8.33 watts. There's a difference except some juices don't respond well at 8 watts and you may be better off at a lower voltage. That most likely has something to do with the reason people disagree on certain juices.
Throw a 2 ohm atty on that battery and set it at 3.7v and you get 6.8 watts. At 4.2v it's running at 8.82 watts ... the sweet spot for some vapers.
I suspect you know - opinions vary. I've this feeling we're going to hear about high watt, wonderful vaping. That's OK with me. Might try those higher watts just to see. But, at moment, for me, just me, 4 or 5 watt seems to do just fine. It is the inconsistency - at times - that perturbs me. If it's not the atty then it's the batt, if not the batt it's the juice, if not the juice it's the charger, if not the charger it's the "contact", if not the contact it's a "bad batch", if not the bad batch it's juice in the mouth, if not the juice in the mouth it's the leaking, etc. Now - it's the watts. I think my sweet spot is plain jane, boring, CONSISTENT vape. But if all worked well - what then to talk about? (Perhaps - time to reduce the nic, PG is killing me, etc.)
PS - Have one of those VV ego type batts. For me, always at blue. First impression - longevity not good compared to plain jane eGo. If always blue, Riva is much better economics.
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What 'battery'?
You'll end up far lower than 3.7V at either setting with a 2Ω atty after a couple minutes of vaping.
Yup.
Any load will decrease battery voltage as the battery loses charge over time. I was just doing wattage calculations from various voltages available from the eGo and Riva, and then voltages from my vv mod (the 5v one for instance).
The ones you quoted are from the variable eGo using a LR Boge carto. Those wattages are reasonable. Sure, you lose voltage after a while, but people just swap off the charger batt and keep going if they want to stay at peak. A high drain mod is better for higher voltage for longer times.
The ones you quoted are from the variable eGo using a LR Boge carto. Those wattages are reasonable. Sure, you lose voltage after a while, but people just swap off the charger batt and keep going if they want to stay at peak. A high drain mod is better for higher voltage for longer times.
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Indeed. But 140 vs Dave's 35. Then it claims PWM. Wonder if it varies the PWM as batt volts decline. It should. Otherwise would seem pointless on a variable volt device. Wonder if the volts on the LED are modulated volts (an average would seem likely) or some claim to be RMS volts. But - interesting. First time I had seen or heard of it.
Good questions - would be nice if it showed the voltage decline... basically what the 5 led one does.
Watched it again (partially anyway). 5.6 dropping to 4.8 with load seems big. Maybe too big. Wonder why two series batts at, likely, 4.2 volts, can't get higher than 6 volts. Maybe a constant 71% duty* on the PWM. LED reads 6 as average with 71% PWM yet RMS volts of ~7. Very confusing. Is it 16 watts (7^2/3) or is it 12 watts (6^2/3) on 3 ohm atty? The jump around voltages seem odd to me as well. Personally think Grimm is wrong about benefits of PWM. I don't think it "extends" battery life. The mah of a batt - I think - is the RMS mah of a batt. I think the ma's there are RMS ma's. Perhaps the ma's seem to last longer by PWM reduction when viewed against peak voltage but, I don't think, when viewed against RMS ma's (Or "average" derived mah's). If any thing, PWM will reduce RMS ma's through the losses in the circuitry involved in doing the PWM.
*The maker of this device promotes the device as variable voltage up to 6 volts. If one assumes the batts just off charger are 4.2 volts each, 8.4 in series, then a PWM of 71% duty would bring that 8.4 volts down to an average of 6 volts. However, the RMS voltage of a 6 volt average resulting from 71% PWM is 7.12 volts - which I call ~7.
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