so you don't think its possible they just wanted the batterie to act the same from 1st to last draw ?
Battery Voltages -- Surprise!
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I was thinking/hoping that was the case... but near as I can tell they don't change the PWM as the primary battery "flattens out". It would be slick and smart if they did.
Does PWM mean that it is kind of like pressing and releasing the button on a real 3,7V battery solution very fast?
So the Ego/Tornado doesn't provide real 3.0/3.1V, but 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> etc. (with an average of 3.0/3.1V) instead?
And this results in a different (better) vape/taste compared to providing stable 3.0/3.1V?
So the Ego/Tornado doesn't provide real 3.0/3.1V, but 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> 3.7V -> 3.7V -> 0V -> etc. (with an average of 3.0/3.1V) instead?
And this results in a different (better) vape/taste compared to providing stable 3.0/3.1V?
Yes, PWM means "pulsing" the power. And you're right.. the eGo/Tornado, along with the other Joye 510 batteries generate their atty voltage that way. The net result is that the actual "power" delivered to the atty is like there was a steady 3.0-3.1V (instead of 3.7V which is what the actual internal battery can produce).
It doesn't produce a "better" vape than a stable 3.0-3.1V source..... basically the same.
If you want a "better" vape (in many people's mind), you provide the full 3.7V and don't pulse it at all (like the Kanger batteries and box mods like the Bartleby).
It doesn't produce a "better" vape than a stable 3.0-3.1V source..... basically the same.
If you want a "better" vape (in many people's mind), you provide the full 3.7V and don't pulse it at all (like the Kanger batteries and box mods like the Bartleby).
peoples minds differ, for my wife most juices gets ruined on "true" 3.7V devices with a joye510 atomizer.
btw, most of my clogged atomizers can't be revived with simple hot water cleanings.
but the ones my wife uses only on original batteries tend to get resurrected most of the time.
btw, most of my clogged atomizers can't be revived with simple hot water cleanings.
but the ones my wife uses only on original batteries tend to get resurrected most of the time.
And the pusling is digital (on/off) and not analog if I read your pictures correctly?
I tried to use a single 3.0V battery in my Chameleon, but it doesn't work - I get very little vapor. Do you have an explanation for this behavior?
In my opinion there are two possible reasons:
a) The Chameleon loses additional voltage
b) the PWM voltage of the Joye batteries and Ego/Tornado doesn't behave the same as a stable 3.0V source
I honestly don't know much of anything about the Chameleon. I do know that when I vape off of my lab power supply set to 3.1V, it's pretty much just like vaping off of a standard 510 battery.
This thread is certainly interesting 
. The info provided by Scott is priceless but it also raised my curiosity. I've seen scope pictures documenting PWM used in some batteries to limit (but not regulate ) power sourced to atomizers, but then it was well defined, periodic PWM set to somewhere between 75 and 80%.
And one purpose of this rather irregular PWM excluded, could it be that some other factor is stabilised? (Preferably power ;-))
Maybe this effect is indeed only a by-product of charging electronics, but even then it'd be good to know a bit more about it's behaviour. Did you make any measurements with a different load, Scott? (Like 3 or 3.5 Ohms?)
. The info provided by Scott is priceless but it also raised my curiosity. I've seen scope pictures documenting PWM used in some batteries to limit (but not regulate ) power sourced to atomizers, but then it was well defined, periodic PWM set to somewhere between 75 and 80%.This, I guess, means that the voltage drop is more or less constant, rather than the output voltage under load. Am I right?
And one purpose of this rather irregular PWM excluded, could it be that some other factor is stabilised? (Preferably power ;-))
Maybe this effect is indeed only a by-product of charging electronics, but even then it'd be good to know a bit more about it's behaviour. Did you make any measurements with a different load, Scott? (Like 3 or 3.5 Ohms?)
Janni,
You bring up some interesting points. Hopefully I can catch my breath this weekend and do some more analysis of the Joye circuit. I'll monitor the duty cycle of the PWM on a "fully charged" battery.. and then again as it "flattens out". I'll also see what happens if I change the load resistance.
You bring up some interesting points. Hopefully I can catch my breath this weekend and do some more analysis of the Joye circuit. I'll monitor the duty cycle of the PWM on a "fully charged" battery.. and then again as it "flattens out". I'll also see what happens if I change the load resistance.
Scott,
Thank you for providing objective evidence of my subjective experience! Although, in my case, it is the superior performance of my penstyle attys (e.g., DSE801) on a Kr8 battery. I bet you would find that the DSE801 battery does not measure up to the Kr8.
Two questions:
1. Have I been having an extended "senior moment?" I though the mAh of standard 510 batteries was 150, not 180.
2. My understanding is that a fully charged battery starts out a max voltage, then drops down from that. [I had thought that a Kr8 battery, for example, started out at around 4.2V and then dropped down to 3.7 or less.] Therefore, it has been my belief that a high mAh battery, e.g., a 2400 mAh 18650, would hold that high level far longer than the 150-280 mAh skinny batteries. Whatever the specific voltage numbers, is that correct in principle?
Thanks, Scott!
Thank you for providing objective evidence of my subjective experience! Although, in my case, it is the superior performance of my penstyle attys (e.g., DSE801) on a Kr8 battery. I bet you would find that the DSE801 battery does not measure up to the Kr8.
Two questions:
1. Have I been having an extended "senior moment?" I though the mAh of standard 510 batteries was 150, not 180.
2. My understanding is that a fully charged battery starts out a max voltage, then drops down from that. [I had thought that a Kr8 battery, for example, started out at around 4.2V and then dropped down to 3.7 or less.] Therefore, it has been my belief that a high mAh battery, e.g., a 2400 mAh 18650, would hold that high level far longer than the 150-280 mAh skinny batteries. Whatever the specific voltage numbers, is that correct in principle?
Thanks, Scott!
I've heard both numbers used (automatic vs. manual, etc..). Honestly, at this exact moment.. I'm not sure which is right! You're NOT the only senior around here ya know!
Yes, that is correct in principle. First off, the smaller batteries typically have a higher internal parasitic resistance. So, under load, they will already start off at a lower delivered voltage than most "larger" batteries. And then, they "trail off" with their delivered voltage gradually dropping at a faster rate than the larger batteries. So yeah.. the larger batteries will typically deliver a bit more real voltage.. and they also deliver it longer.
Always a pleasure Don!
This was probably the most interesting post I have ever read on this forum and I'm a total electrical dullard. Keep up the good work!! I hope this info goes to Joye so they can consider changing heir FET at least on the eGo. I'm planning on picking up the lasermod from Ikenvape which uses a 10440. I hope it runs at 3.5v+ instead of the standard 510 3.1v.
Just an FYI.. if you haven't seen it. I have built an eGo/Tornado battery system that uses a true 3.7V drive:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/product-feature-design-requests/70591-dream-pvs.html
The change makes for a very potent battery.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/product-feature-design-requests/70591-dream-pvs.html
The change makes for a very potent battery.
Okay just because I'm still waaay confused on the whole V4L batteries thing, are THOSE batteries the KR808D-1?
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