Beta Carboline MAOIs - towards a more effective e-liquid

[kinabaloo]

Best thing I've found is Seroquel combined with Trileptal. 500mg + 1500mg could knock out a bull elephant, or so I've found.

I guess those are drugs though. And I don't do drugs

Might take an aspirin once or twice a year but that's about it (and that's a bark extract; not that naturally occuring is necessarily safer).

One of the cough medicines I took many many years ago was very sedative; don't know if they still make it but I have wondered what the drowse inducer was; from memory i thought that an ammonium salt of some kind might have been the key ingredient. It can be useful to have something reliable when one really needs to get some sleep but can't. For me, that's melatonin; though haven't used it in a long time; wine works pretty well too, though doesn't provide such a fresh feeling in the morning

 

[nesf]

I guess those are drugs though. And I don't do drugs

Pfft, they're the same thing when you get down to it. It all comes down to neurotransmitters and other chemicals.

 

[kinabaloo]

Pfft, they're the same thing when you get down to it. It all comes down to neurotransmitters and other chemicals.

Well, there's not so much difference between drugs and herbs perhaps; although herbs are composed of many chemicals, there is some good chance that the body can process and discharge these more effectively and safely than drugs that are often non-existent in the natural world. When it comes to vitamins and minerals, those are definetly much safer ground.

My main issue with drug based medicine, however, is that it is not health-led but profit-led and these two mostly do not overlap. Little money in prevention and cure; the profits lie in palliative 'care' and side-effects creating new 'symptoms' requiring more drugs.

 

[jamesam1243]

removed by james

 

[tescela]

I just started vaping it today (its been about 7 hours) and my experience so far, I get very close to that feeling I used to get after finishing a cigarette where the brain says "ok I'm done & don't want anymore" kind of a feeling?
It feels very much mental & very little physical. That's the best I can describe it.
I am also very interested to know how Vaporz and Grim_Piper are getting on with the PF. Also like to know if they use it all the time or on occasions.

Thanks for your posts, nicnac!

When you have a minute, please post the details of the Passion Flower extract that you used (e.g., brand name, alcohol base or VG base [AKA extract or tincture; it will be labeled one of these ways on the bottle], etc.) as well as the dosage that you used (e.g., 1 drop per mL of eliquid).

Thank you for sharing your experience!

 

[jamesam1243]

i used Passion Flower and it seemed to work ok as a mild sedative..
one fun experiment was putting PF in the bottle of my WetBox mod and using when desired..

but i found really no increase in the satisfaction level of my vape..

James

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July 21 smoked 06 cigs, 34 less than my usual 40 cigs a day 2757 cigarettes not smoked in 79 days by using Stonewall, Joye 510, Hello 016, Ken's BoxMod, MadVapes 2xAA Box Mod, WetBox Vaporizer (ecig) and 19 bottles of ejuice partially used , $0.28 per cig X 2757 Cigs = $771.96 diverted from cigarettes to Vaporizer (ecig). OMG I have spent over $1671.51 in 74 days on this stuff but bare in mind that my old cigarette cost was $330 a month and i have $790 in supplies so $880 in hardware and consumed ejuice

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Swanson Premium

Passion Flower Liquid Extract


Passion flower is an age-old herb that's recently been "rediscovered" as a natural aid for reducing nervous energy. While scientists continue to investigate the components within the herb that are responsible for its unique benefits, we're pleased to offer this high-quality liquid herbal extract featuring the natural power of passion flower to help gently take the edge off your stressful days.

 

[nicnac]

Thanks for your posts, nicnac!

When you have a minute, please post the details of the Passion Flower extract that you used (e.g., brand name, alcohol base or VG base [AKA extract or tincture; it will be labeled one of these ways on the bottle], etc.) as well as the dosage that you used (e.g., 1 drop per mL of eLiquid).

Thank you for sharing your experience!

Brand: "Nature's Answer"
Alcohol free, VG base, extract 1:1
I used one drop/ml
I got it at a local GNC store

 

[nesf]

Well, there's not so much difference between drugs and herbs perhaps; although herbs are composed of many chemicals, there is some good chance that the body can process and discharge these more effectively and safely than drugs that are often non-existent in the natural world. When it comes to vitamins and minerals, those are definetly much safer ground.

I disagree with you here, there's little reason to automatically believe that our bodies can process herbs well purely because they're natural in origin.

My main issue with drug based medicine, however, is that it is not health-led but profit-led and these two mostly do not overlap. Little money in prevention and cure; the profits lie in palliative 'care' and side-effects creating new 'symptoms' requiring more drugs.

Side effect profiles have been decreasing in size though in areas like anti-depressants as newer drugs come out. The goal being a better tolerated anti-depressant. The profit-motive is problematic but I think them deliberately claiming creating more side effects isn't really a problem given that they're in competition with each other and doctors will prescribe drugs with kinder side effect profiles, even at the expense of lower efficacy (c.f. SSRIs in antidepressants).


This is probably better suited to a separate thread though.

 

[kinabaloo]

I disagree with you here, there's little reason to automatically believe that our bodies can process herbs well purely because they're natural in origin.



Side effect profiles have been decreasing in size though in areas like anti-depressants as newer drugs come out. The goal being a better tolerated anti-depressant. The profit-motive is problematic but I think them deliberately claiming creating more side effects isn't really a problem given that they're in competition with each other and doctors will prescribe drugs with kinder side effect profiles, even at the expense of lower efficacy (c.f. SSRIs in antidepressants).


This is probably better suited to a separate thread though.

Re first point: Hence why I put the case only mildly.

On second point: The drug companies know that they generally have 10-30 years to clean up before the negatives can no longer be sufficiently suppressed. I say that drug-based medicine is basically a scam, and one with terrible casualties but for many it is the new religion and blind faith in the idea that drugs are primarily devised to ease suffering is how they get away with it. Hence it's something I also don't really want to discuss here. It does however explain why safer, more effective alternatives to smoking do not get government approval; they are 'advised' by the drug industry.

 

[Nforcer]

im still waiting for some1 to say this PF extract its 100% safe to use in combination with the E-liquid we are using , on the other side im preety sure we cant be 100% safe

 

[IMWylde]

I think in any case it will be a YMMV situation. If someone is interested in researching it for themselves they should excercise serious caution. On the face it seems that the additive may help or at least enhance the experience. But then you know peanuts have been known to kill people.

 

[tescela]

I disagree with you here

You might want to read some of kinabaloo's many old posts before getting into the ring with him. He know's his ****. That said, the back and forth is productive, because we will all end up learning a lot from the discussion.

Re first point: Hence why I put the case only mildly.

On second point: The drug companies know that they generally have 10-30 years to clean up before the negatives can no longer be sufficiently suppressed. I say that drug-based medicine is basically a scam, and one with terrible casualties but for many it is the new religion and blind faith in the idea that drugs are primarily devised to ease suffering is how they get away with it. Hence it's something I also don't really want to discuss here. It does however explain why safer, more effective alternatives to smoking do not get government approval; they are 'advised' by the drug industry.

Please DO continue this topic (and let us know about which other thread you migrate it to), because we learn a lot from you, kinabaloo, and the education is greatly appreciated.

 

[nesf]

You might want to read some of kinabaloo's many old posts before getting into the ring with him. He know's his ****.

If he didn't I wouldn't waste my time arguing with him.

 

[nesf]

On second point: The drug companies know that they generally have 10-30 years to clean up before the negatives can no longer be sufficiently suppressed. I say that drug-based medicine is basically a scam, and one with terrible casualties but for many it is the new religion and blind faith in the idea that drugs are primarily devised to ease suffering is how they get away with it. Hence it's something I also don't really want to discuss here. It does however explain why safer, more effective alternatives to smoking do not get government approval; they are 'advised' by the drug industry.

I'm not really sure where to start on this one.

In short, there's a lot of evidence for the efficacy of at least some pharmaceutical drugs. One need merely look at the last 100 years of psychiatry to see this. Said look will also show up some of the bad sides of the pharmaceutical industry with how it markets drugs and how it can suppress evidence to appear to make drugs work better than they actually do but one need merely look at the effects that drugs have had on bipolar and schizophrenic patients to see that they do indeed work and aren't a mere scam. That and there're no real alternatives for mania or psychosis (excluding perhaps ECT). None at least that have a shred of evidence going for them anyway.

 

[nicnac]

im still waiting for some1 to say this PF extract its 100% safe to use in combination with the E-liquid we are using , on the other side im preety sure we cant be 100% safe

look at it this way. Do you think all the additives the juice makers use to create all kinds of different flavors of juice safe?

By the way has anybody tried Tobacco absolute? I've ordered some of that too.
Perfumers Apprentice - Tobacco Absolute (2. Diluted)

 

[HeatherC]

Very interesting research. I was unaware of MAOIs in tobacco. ( I have been on a variety of SSRIs for a number of years and just switched about a year ago to an SSNRI) It's interesting that they would never ever combine MAOIs and SSRIs....and that's what I've been doing. Also interesting in that since I've been vaping instead of smoking I've actually noticed better mood control...(psychosomatic I thought, but maybe not so much) This just served to prove that I really need to keep vaping LOL

 

[kinabaloo]

Hmm,,, I wasn't thinking of psychiatric drugs - perhaps in that case the benefit / harm balance is more favorable to the drug use. It's not that drugs don't do something, but that often the harm, longer term, is greater than the benefit. The problem is that the science is more or less controlled by the business. I really want to leave the topic though as it's too general; however, we can, and should, try to win the point wrt e-cigs and other alternatives.

~~~

One thing I would like to say more explicitly is that modern life is quite different to that which evolution prepared us for. In many ways it is more stressful now, and certainly more cerebral. So the fact that many of us are looking for relaxation from vaping does not mean that we are all depressed or anxious in a clinical sense so much as that's the human condition in the 21st century.

~~~

Not sure if the aromatherapy angle has been discussed on the forums previously, but it's worth considering. Consider for example this (feeling lazy, so a paste job):

"[...] patients in a London hospital who wore skin patches of the scent lost weight and had lower appetites compared to other patients in the same experiment who did not wear the vanilla-scented patches. It's possible that the sweet smell of vanilla helped to curb cravings, or perhaps, researchers speculate, there is something even more complex involved in the scent than medical science understands at this point." -- http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/200303/vanilla_used_for_aromatherapy_pg2.html?cat=68

 

[HeatherC]

Maybe I should clarify...I am not under psychiatric treatment nor am I being treated for depression or anxiety
I had a traumatic brain injury that according to my neurologist has left me with deficits in the production of certain neurotransmitters. SOO just to make certain that isn't misunderstood.

 

[nesf]

Hmm,,, I wasn't thinking of psychiatric drugs - perhaps in that case the benefit / harm balance is more favorable to the drug use. It's not that drugs don't do something, but that often the harm, longer term, is greater than the benefit. The problem is that the science is more or less controlled by the business. I really want to leave the topic though as it's too general; however, we can, and should, try to win the point wrt e-cigs and other alternatives.

Aye, let's leave it.

One thing I would like to say more explicitly is that modern life is quite different to that which evolution prepared us for. In many ways it is more stressful now, and certainly more cerebral. So the fact that many of us are looking for relaxation from vaping does not mean that we are all depressed or anxious in a clinical sense so much as that's the human condition in the 21st century.

One of the easiest ways to spot someone who's never seen clinical depression or anxiety is someone who thinks that what most people go through is depression or anxiety. One of my biggest problems with drug companies is the over-diagnosis of depression/anxiety that they've encouraged (and the over-prescription of medication) by their advertising in the States. Prozac et al may help clinically depressed individuals, they won't help someone who's "feeling a bit blue."

 

[tescela]

Maybe I should clarify...I am not under psychiatric treatment nor am I being treated for depression or anxiety
I had a traumatic brain injury that according to my neurologist has left me with deficits in the production of certain neurotransmitters. SOO just to make certain that isn't misunderstood.

Psych patients are so touchy