"Blowing clouds" and sub ohm vaping... Why?

[emus]

If a clone is missing a vent hole,i just drill one,no worries mate.

Thanks. I already have drilled mine.

It seems many here are concerned the vape world will be greatly damaged should a body get hurt.
Yet a simple hole could potentially save a tooth at a cost of near nil.
Unless I'm missing the boat.

 

[Credo]

Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Lets no make villians of people who like load sound systems in their cars now. I dont listen to rap so the bass thumping isnt the desired affect but is unavoidable with subs playing loudly in a car. Lets get this thread back on track now. Woah, Woah, WOAH........ slow it down

Not villans at all. Just very real and admittedly 'crappy' politics.

Recreational vaping vs Alternative to Smoking
Nothing 'wrong' with either for those of us who 'get it', especially if you do it in private and safe conditions.

Cloud Blowing Youtube Videos can be used in courts, media outlets, and legislative hearings to give the impression that it has transformed into a 'recreational' product that could be a 'public' health hazard. In more populated areas, where thousands of people can live/work/play in the same building/area as you changes the equation from a 'legal and political' perspective.

When I first started vaping there were indeed LOTS of videos on YouTube...the bulk of them were talking about the benifits of kicking the 'smoking' habit, or general tips on how to make vaping easier/less expensive.

Today it's a starting to look a lot different...(Dude! I can get nic buzz from hell on this! Look at this Cloud! I smuggled this in from China, tax free for only $9.99!)

Many of these type folks probably never were 'smokers' (some are even looking alot like under-age users)...they never even mention it if they are kicking a tobacco habit. Totally recreational...addicted to something 'cool'. FDA has their guns trained on us.

 

[quintheskimo]

We seem to have strayed from the original post a little, but these really are some great points of discussion. I would add that my personal fear is that there will be legislation created to block out the small developers in favor of the large conglomerates and their business driven tactics of using chemical compounds designed to get nicotine to absorb into the body lightning fast. Cigarettes include these chemicals because, like every drug, the faster nicotine gets into the bloodstream, and the younger the target, the more likely it will create a life long addict.

Vaping got me off cigarettes, and I chase clouds to replace what I got used to with them, AND because I continually drop my comparatively slower acting nicotine levels (I'm now below 6mg). These "fits" are no joke when you're a lifelong addict like I am.

Back to the OP, I also have a Noble1, in addition to a bunch of vapor volcanos, and I still love it for flavor, convenience and overall experience. A 2/1 wrap is an absurd suggestion as it is scalding hot, will not produce more vapor (no wick will keep up), and will destroy an 18350, possibly even make a bad one explode. Whoever told you to do that, is precisely the kind reckless advocate that will, at the very least, draw generalized criticisms on us all, and at most, cause this whole party to get shut down...

 

[stevegmu]

I don't get it, either, but I also don't get why people put 5 inch exhausts on Honda Civics, or chimney stacks on trucks.

 

[dr g]

I have to wonder if the people who found true taste and satisfaction with sub ohm vaping might be a little insensitive to the mainstream flavor and aroma of 2 to 3 ohm vaping. There are days when I don't get the flavor and satisfaction from my 3.7v vape on a 2 ohm coil, but I know it will come back as my taste buds recover from whatever.

Cranking it to 6v just makes the taste go South every time I try it.

Acrolein production starts at around 500F, from test reports I have read. A couple report Acrolein as low as 280F. In any event, it's lung damaging if it happens. I like to keep my voltage/wattage at the lowest level that produces a pleasurable vape.

You seem to be operating with the common mistaken perception that subohm/high power/big cloud vaping has a different operating temperature as other kinds of vaping. All vaping has the same general operating temperature. In fact it's fairly common for subohm setups to run "cooler" than consumer setups.

I think there is a difference between 6 V vaping and subohm vaping,i used my Vamo at 5 volt max on a 1.2 wrap and it started too taste awful.

There is and there isn't. Voltage, subohm, etc. all boils down to power and coil/wick design.

 

[DaveP]

You seem to be operating with the common mistaken perception that subohm/high power/big cloud vaping has a different operating temperature as other kinds of vaping. All vaping has the same general operating temperature. In fact it's fairly common for subohm setups to run "cooler" than consumer setups.



There is and there isn't. Voltage, subohm, etc. all boils down to power and coil/wick design.

What kind of temps have you measured on your sub ohm mech? Is it the air holes that make the difference? At least one sub ohmer on the board has posted voltage and resistance measurements that extrapolate to 46 watts and 12 amps. That's hot to me. Really hot, unless there's massive air movement across the coil.

 

[twistedchild316]

Why? Because it's fun! We quit ciggs....why not have a little fun? I use 0 nic and max VG when I cloud.....shameless plug

 

[DaveP]

PG and VG are lung irritants. The smaller the cloud, the better my lungs feel. Your experience may vary.

 

[gdeal]

I agree with dr g here with one condition that has to be true. That is, your wick/coil and airflow is somewhat optimized. If you have an optimized wick, your vapor should be no hotter than the vapor point of your ejuice. Vape Temperature boils (lol) down to coil/wick design and how the power in the coil is being transferred. If you have an optimized set-up, the energy is either transferred to the ejuice to change its state (from liquid to vapor) or is being used to super heat air (if your wick starts to dry out) or is being absorbed by the atty itself and given off as heat. (It not really about absolute wattage, its how the power is distributed, both going in and coming out)

If your set-up is not optimized or is over-powered you can get all the bad outcomes: burn wick/ejuice, hot/bad vapor taste, overly hot atty, etc...mainly because your wick is dry.

So when you go sub-ohm, you need a good wick material/configuration that can supply the required amount of ejuice, a coil that can transfer energy over a great surface area so that the power at the individual wraps of coils dont overcome the wick's ability to deliver juice at those points on the coil and you have the right air flow to produce a mixture of evaporated ejuice to get the right density of vapor.

I think why you get a better (IMO) vape with sub-ohm coils is because the range of achievable optimization is greater than with higher ohm coils. And the main reason for a better vape is that the energy is being transferred over a larger coil surface area with more wick coverage which can be tuned with airflow rates. This extent of optimization is based upon our batteries.

The main safety issue comes into play when you go outside the parameters of your batteries. I think baditude's post hit all those points and was well stated.

 

[Richard75]

Why? Because it's fun! We quit ciggs....why not have a little fun? I use 0 nic and max VG when I cloud.....shameless plug

I actually completely agree with this. It is fun, and blowing a huge cloud is oddly pleasurable. I don't understand why sub-ohm people are being made out to be reckless or pushing e-cigs to their breaking point... the bottom line is, if you know what you're doing, it's no more dangerous vaping at 0.6 ohms than vaping at 1.3 ohms. I typically run my Helios at 0.7-0.8 ohms with simple 30g Kanthal, and do you know my biggest precaution? I don't use my AW IMR 18350's with them. I build my coils with care, I regularly inspect and clean my mods, and I regularly check my batteries, and I'm fully aware of my battery’s capabilities. As long as all of these requirements are met (and you gotta admit, this is stuff you need to do regardless of your resistance), you are safe.

PG and VG are lung irritants. The smaller the cloud, the better my lungs feel. Your experience may vary.

My experience is completely opposite. The flavor I get from a lung hit with a massive cloud is infinitely more pleasurable than even when I was wrapping 1.1-1.3 ohm's. I have my Hornet set up at about 0.9 ohms on my Reo, and I don't think I could go back to anything above 1 ohm.

 

[DaveP]

My experience is completely opposite. The flavor I get from a lung hit with a massive cloud is infinitely more pleasurable than even when I was wrapping 1.1-1.3 ohm's. I have my Hornet set up at about 0.9 ohms on my Reo, and I don't think I could go back to anything above 1 ohm.

We all have our expectations about what constitutes a good vape. I look for an exhale that approximates what I got from my ultra light cigarettes. I get that from a 2.0 to 2.5 ohm coil at 3.7v to 4v. We all have our own set of expectations.

What bothers me is that new vapers will read about sub ohm vaping and pop a low ohm coil on a mech without realizing that it's not exactly danger free. You know what to look for in terms of battery heat and length of vape vs rest time in between. We have had people post about using a .3 ohm coil with an lMR battery that has a max current rating of 10 amps. They don't know that they are exceeding the design specs of the battery at 12 amps/46 watts and just might get into trouble without knowing why.

Granted, lMR batts are much more accommodating than Li-ion batts, but they will spew and vent, just not as dangerously as Li-ion. I've read test results that showed intermittent, short discharge to a 500 degree internal temp without venting. I just wouldn't want that to happen in my mech.

I don't disagree with anyone vaping at low ohms as long as they understand the ramifications of what they are doing. It's definitely operating on or beyond the edge of safe limits. I just think that there's little information out there for the newbie.

 

[Richard75]

We all have our expectations about what constitutes a good vape. I look for an exhale that approximates what I got from my ultra light cigarettes. I get that from a 2.0 to 2.5 ohm coil at 3.7v to 4v. We all have our own set of expectations.

Oh, absolutely. I used to smoke full favor Pall Malls, and sometimes unfiltered Pall Malls. I've found a 0.8 ohm coil (both single and dual) at the same voltages makes my perfect vape.

What bothers me is that new vapers will read about sub ohm vaping and pop a low ohm coil on a mech without realizing that it's not exactly danger free. You know what to look for in terms of battery heat and length of vape vs rest time in between. We have had people post about using a .3 ohm coil with an lMR battery that has a max current rating of 10 amps. They don't know that they are exceeding the design specs of the battery at 12 amps/46 watts and just might get into trouble without knowing why.

Granted, lMR batts are much more accommodating than Li-ion batts, but they will spew and vent, just not as dangerously as Li-ion. I've read test results that showed intermittent, short discharge to a 500 degree internal temp without venting. I just wouldn't want that to happen in my mech.

This is very true, regardless of the battery. But there are always those people who will venture into the extreme of anything regardless of the risks. Call me a little nihilistic, but I believe we have to rely on technology to fight stupidity. Better, safer batteries are being discovered and produced at a rapid pace. I don't think it will be long before a battery with absolute safety is created, perhaps solely for vapers like us.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Lets no make villians of people who like load sound systems in their cars now. I dont listen to rap so the bass thumping isnt the desired affect but is unavoidable with subs playing loudly in a car. Lets get this thread back on track now. Woah, Woah, WOAH........ slow it down

I'm not trying to make a villain out of anyone. Nor am I saying anything about rap.

I'm simply saying that in this day and age, often times, we ignore or forget about the people around us and should show a little courtesy. There are places where x behavior may or may not be appropriate and we seem to not care about that anymore. Not everyone enjoys the same things you do and it's unfair to force them to deal with it because they are in the same proximity.

Do unto others and all that blah blah blah

Sorry if I have offended anyone.

 

[Gary Mcroy]

I'm not trying to make a villain out of anyone. Nor am I saying anything about rap.

I'm simply saying that in this day and age, often times, we ignore or forget about the people around us and should show a little courtesy. There are places where x behavior may or may not be appropriate and we seem to not care about that anymore. Not everyone enjoys the same things you do and it's unfair to force them to deal with it because they are in the same proximity.

Do unto others and all that blah blah blah

Sorry if I have offended anyone.

i was just messin, im so not offended, just liike to joke around.... btw i dont like rap either. I mentioned that, I want more than boom boom and trunk rattle from loud music

 

[DaveP]

i was just messin, im so not offended, just liike to joke around.... btw i dont like rap either. I mentioned that, I want more than boom boom and trunk rattle from loud music

Classic Rock fan here. Being a lead guitar player who started in the 60s, I have developed a talent for what is now considered by 90s music standards as showing off. Long live Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, and Jimmy Page, among many others.

 

[vapo jam]

just wanted to add a comment i'd made previously regarding the temperature (full post is here if anyone is interested - a lot of people seem to like it: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-sub-ohm-vaping-dangerous-3.html#post10580956 )

regarding the temperature - does anyone happen to know how a rice cooker works? you basically just throw in rice and water, turn it on, and it somehow knows when to turn off, right? what's actually going on is there's a heater and a thermometer in the bottom, and the heater stays on as long as the thermometer reads around 212°F (the boiling point of water). liquid water can't physically exist at a higher temperature than this (it needs to become steam first), so as long as there's any liquid water in the rice cooker, it keeps the base at around 212°F as well. as soon as all the water has either been absorbed by the rice or boiled off, the temperature jumps, which tells the rice cooker to shut off.

similarly, eliquid can only exist at a certain temperature before it vaporizes, so as long as it's in contact with your coil, it will prevent the coil from heating up very much beyond this point (assuming you're not providing enough power to cause it to combust, which is almost impossible to do on a well-saturated wick without an external heat source, eg, a lighter). obviously, there are other factors that go into it - the outside of the coil, for example, also relies on air and vapor to help it stay cooler - but there just isn't enough room on a 28-32 gauge wire to have a huge temperature gradient.

 

[emus]

Classic Rock fan here. Being a lead guitar player who started in the 60s, I have developed a talent for what is now considered by 90s music standards as showing off. Long live Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, and Jimmy Page, among many others.

My parent's couldn't understand how anyone could stand that stuff
Made the kids like em more.

 

[vapo jam]

getting back to the original subject, i'll be honest - i just like blowing big clouds. i don't know why, but it's a more fun and more satisfying vape experience for me.

i will make the disclaimer that i do know what i'm doing: i use safe batteries (aw 1600's and mnke's), my coils are sub-ohm, but reasonable for those batteries (0.4-0.5 for drippers, 0.6-0.8 for gennies; math tells us i could go as low as .21 with the mnke's or .18 with the aw's and still not exceed the maximum continuous discharge rate), i check my resistances multiple times with a dmm, i test fire freshly charged batteries away from my face before vaping, and i keep an eye out for any red flags (like excess heat anywhere on the device) while vaping. if you're not prepared to do this, i wouldn't recommend rebuilding at all, let alone going sub-ohm.

 

[emus]

...if you're not prepared to do this, i wouldn't recommend rebuilding at all, let alone going sub-ohm.

Concur.
Don't have to intentionally go sub-ohm for accident.

 

[LDS714]

The parallels with motorcycling here are incredible. The dirt bike guys think the sport bike guys are nuts, and both of them rarely see the point of having a cruiser. Cruiser guys have a hard time understanding why some consider it fun braking from 180+ mph at the last possible split second to enter a turn with both tires sliding on the edge of control with a knee dragging on the ground.

Everything we do involves some type of risk. The trick is understanding the danger prior to choosing to accept a particular level of risk.

Lots of good advice and information here about the risks and dangers. Sport vapers, much as sport bikers, need to be aware of the dangers and risks.