bottom feeders vs. gennisis atomizers

[pdib]

So, I was doing Genisis and drippers until Super_X_drifter was kind enough to lend me a REO Grand and an RM2 to try squeezeboxin'. Never even gonna glance back. The flavor comparison is to the FIRST 10 toots on a freshly filled Genny. the ease of use and pocket-ability is excellent (beats Genny hands down). I was building Genisis with short-tailed nextel wicks to beat the heat-sink-soup-pot effect (loss of flavor in tank juice due to wiki-cookin'). That came close . . . . . but this is better. I hop on my Grand with a .8Ω ohm Micro-Coil; kicks pants on VV vaping.

ADDIT: Forgot to add, you can only compare to dripping if you don't drip more than 3 drops at a time. If you're dripping 15 drops in an IGO-L, you know the flavor gets muddled as the first 5 toots, cook the last 10.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

So, when you squonk a BF do you have to be like real careful and steady, so it doesn't spill all over your hand, or is it not that finnicky a deal.Yeah I like vaping a mechanical, but it gets real annoying once the volts start dropping.Hey pd thanks for your post it answered a question I've always had occasionally I would be vaping a tank and the flavour would just be gone. It must be that cooking the juice thing.

 

[nerak]

So, when you squonk a BF do you have to be like real careful and steady, so it doesn't spill all over your hand, or is it not that finnicky a deal.Yeah I like vaping a mechanical, but it gets real annoying once the volts start dropping.Hey pd thanks for your post it answered a question I've always had occasionally I would be vaping a tank and the flavour would just be gone. It must be that cooking the juice thing.

So, are you glad I saw your post in the other Reo forum and directed you here? Told you it was "the" place to ask!

Squonking is best done slow and easy. A juice containing lots of PG will move up the tube much faster. Robert adds a reducer tube to all REO orders. When placed in the bottom of the tube it makes any PG juice flow great.

Watching the flow go into a RBA a few times will give you a good idea of how long you will need to squonk. Not that finicky a deal at all.

 

[super_X_drifter]

So, when you squonk a BF do you have to be like real careful and steady, so it doesn't spill all over your hand, or is it not that finnicky a deal.Yeah I like vaping a mechanical, but it gets real annoying once the volts start dropping.Hey pd thanks for your post it answered a question I've always had occasionally I would be vaping a tank and the flavour would just be gone. It must be that cooking the juice thing.

It's really not that complicated a deal. No, it won't spill all over your hand. It oozes up into the atty / carto / RBA pretty slowly.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Yeah I'm real glad, thanks alot nerak, and everyone else on the thread you've been a great help.I was thinking of making my next purchase a Z atty U, but it might just have to be a REO.

 

[pdib]

When I squonk my 50/50, into my RM2, I just give it a healthy squeeze and hold it there from 2 to 5+ seconds. Whatever my wick don't want, just goes back down the hole.

 

[Treebeard]

So, are you glad I saw your post in the other Reo forum and directed you here? Told you it was "the" place to ask!

Squonking is best done slow and easy. A juice containing lots of PG will move up the tube much faster. Robert adds a reducer tube to all REO orders. When placed in the bottom of the tube it makes any PG juice flow great.

Watching the flow go into a RBA a few times will give you a good idea of how long you will need to squonk. Not that finicky a deal at all.

Ahhhh, so that's what that little piece of tube is for. I had no idea. I learn something new from reonauts every time I pop in.

 

[darkzero]

What a coincidence for this thread. I'm still new so I don't claim to know what I'm doing or talking about but I'll share my experiences.

I started off with Reos so I had no experience with anything else. As someone once told me, by doing so I took the fun out of all the wasted money with mods & time I would have experience before getting the Reos. I started off with Cisco atties. It was a bit of of a learning curve squonking them to avoid flooding & dry hits. Tried eGos & a Provari that my buddies had, nothing spectacular there for me.

Now I only use RBAs, only learning curve for me was playing with different types of coils & wicks. I have a bunch of Phoenix v4/Octopus/RDA style RBAs. I was worried about leaking since I pocket carry so I spent the time modding one for bottom air feed. Rob commented that I would probably end up liking side air better & he was right, the side air feed works so much better. My bottom air feed mods work well but not as good as side air & I haven't experienced any leaking as I assumed I would. The RDA clones are no RM2 but after they come off the lathe & mill, they have been just awesome for me. I've built a number of different configurations with them & so far I haven't had a build that I wasn't happy with. Very reliable & no easily overflooding them like with the Ciscos. I love them but again they do need just a bit of machine work to work properly in the Reos.

So then I wanted a cheap mod to use with a dripping RBA to test new flavors & to use the Kick that I bought that I intended to use with the Grand. Forgive me oh great Lord of the Bottom Feeders for I have sinned as I had purchased a non-Reo mod after the Reos. I have heard great things about Gennies so I picked one up too. It may just be me but I find they aren't too forgiving.

My first build was with 500 mesh, 30 awg, stock air hole. Very disappointing. I vape VG only so the 500 just doesn't work for me. I don't like airy draw & I don't draw straight to the lungs but the RSST really needed a bigger hole. Drilled out to my usual #56, still disappointing, then 1.25mm, now too airy & still disappointing. Finally my 3rd build I was getting somewhere, 300 mesh, 28 awg, sub-ohm, great flavor but still not happy with vapor & TH. I'm on my 5th or 6th build now & it's getting better each time but it's still doesn't compare to my Reos with the RDAs. My Reos at 1.5 ohm are still so much better than this Genny has been so far. Even my very first RDA build was better than what the Genny is now. I haven't gave up on it but I have a feeling I won't be happy as I'm just expecting to get that same performance as I do with my Reos.

I haven't even had the thought of bringing this tube mod & Genny with me out the house, no way it would take the place of one of my Reos, I'm not sure anything else will, it's just not for me. I now know I'm a bottom feeder person & a Reo addict. And the Kick is now sitting back in it's it little plastic box. LR-SLR for me, if I'm out & I'm starting to loose voltage, I just pop in a fresh battery.

Everyone might have a different style of squonking, at least I do. Once you get that down, IMHO bottom feeders seem hard to beat. Bottom feeders might not be for everyone but I personally really don't think I could find a mod that I like better than a Reo.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

There is no doubt about it gennys have a huge learning curve on them, and those of us who use them are still modding them to get the best out of them.You are on your sixth build? I couldn't even begin to count how many builds I've made on my gennys.Most people who've tried gennys usually give up, because of the learning curve.Honestly when I first decided chinese crap mass produced attys, and cartos weren't for me and started looking at RBAs, my first choice was BF and REOs, but I wasn't sure if this RBA thing was going to work.The REO was an expensive mod to experment with.I started out with an AGA-t and a little spinner vv to play with before I made a commitment to RBAs, after that I invested my time in perfecting using a gennys.I don't regret it at all.Once you've mastered it gennys give an amazing vape, and with the advent of ceramic wicks, they are just going to get better as people refine the type of ceramic to use.BF are the only other style of vaping I'd seriously contemplate,over odyessus style, over kayfun style.


However can anyone explain to me why BF aren't that popular. I mean I can understand why gennys get a bad rap they are a HUGE pain in the ... in the begining...HUGE.But despite that there are probably a dozen good to great genisis atomizers to choose from.There are a dozen good to great device designed primarily for genny users.Yet from this thread I am seeing some very experinced vapers commited to BF. Yet there are only a very few BF devices, really only one the REO, there are only a couple of BF RBAs.......what's up widit? why do you all think that is.Why hasn't it caught on.

What a coincidence for this thread. I'm still new so I don't claim to know what I'm doing or talking about but I'll share my experiences.

I started off with Reos so I had no experience with anything else. As someone once told me, by doing so I took the fun out of all the wasted money with mods & time I would have experience before getting the Reos. I started off with Cisco atties. It was a bit of of a learning curve squonking them to avoid flooding & dry hits. Tried eGos & a Provari that my buddies had, nothing spectacular there for me.

Now I only use RBAs, only learning curve for me was playing with different types of coils & wicks. I have a bunch of Phoenix v4/Octopus/RDA style RBAs. I was worried about leaking since I pocket carry so I spent the time modding one for bottom air feed. Rob commented that I would probably end up liking side air better & he was right, the side air feed works so much better. My bottom air feed mods work well but not as good as side air & I haven't experienced any leaking as I assumed I would. The RDA clones are no RM2 but after they come off the lathe & mill, they have been just awesome for me. I've built a number of different configurations with them & so far I haven't had a build that I wasn't happy with. Very reliable & no easily overflooding them like with the Ciscos. I love them but again they do need just a bit of machine work to work properly in the Reos.

So then I wanted a cheap mod to use with a dripping RBA to test new flavors & to use the Kick that I bought that I intended to use with the Grand. Forgive me oh great Lord of the Bottom Feeders for I have sinned as I had purchased a non-Reo mod after the Reos. I have heard great things about Gennies so I picked one up too. It may just be me but I find they aren't too forgiving.

My first build was with 500 mesh, 30 awg, stock air hole. Very disappointing. I vape VG only so the 500 just doesn't work for me. I don't like airy draw & I don't draw straight to the lungs but the RSST really needed a bigger hole. Drilled out to my usual #56, still disappointing, then 1.25mm, now too airy & still disappointing. Finally my 3rd build I was getting somewhere, 300 mesh, 28 awg, sub-ohm, great flavor but still not happy with vapor & TH. I'm on my 5th or 6th build now & it's getting better each time but it's still doesn't compare to my Reos with the RDAs. My Reos at 1.5 ohm are still so much better than this Genny has been so far. Even my very first RDA build was better than what the Genny is now. I haven't gave up on it but I have a feeling I won't be happy as I'm just expecting to get that same performance as I do with my Reos.

I haven't even had the thought of bringing this tube mod & Genny with me out the house, no way it would take the place of one of my Reos, I'm not sure anything else will, it's just not for me. I now know I'm a bottom feeder person & a Reo addict. And the Kick is now sitting back in it's it little plastic box. LR-SLR for me, if I'm out & I'm starting to loose voltage, I just pop in a fresh battery.

Everyone might have a different style of squonking, at least I do. Once you get that down, IMHO bottom feeders seem hard to beat. Bottom feeders might not be for everyone but I personally really don't think I could find a mod that I like better than a Reo.

 

[super_X_drifter]

There is no doubt about it gennys have a huge learning curve on them, and those of us who use them are still modding them to get the best out of them.You are on your sixth build? I couldn't even begin to count how many builds I've made on my gennys.Most people who've tried gennys usually give up, because of the learning curve.Honestly when I first decided chinese crap mass produced attys, and cartos weren't for me and started looking at RBAs, my first choice was BF and REOs, but I wasn't sure if this RBA thing was going to work.The REO was an expensive mod to experment with.I started out with an AGA-t and a little spinner vv to play with before I made a commitment to RBAs, after that I invested my time in perfecting using a gennys.I don't regret it at all.Once you've mastered it gennys give an amazing vape, and with the advent of ceramic wicks, they are just going to get better as people refine the type of ceramic to use.BF are the only other style of vaping I'd seriously contemplate,over odyessus style, over kayfun style.


However can anyone explain to me why BF aren't that popular. I mean I can understand why gennys get a bad rap they are a HUGE pain in the ... in the begining...HUGE.But despite that there are probably a dozen good to great genisis atomizers to choose from.There are a dozen good to great device designed primarily for genny users.Yet from this thread I am seeing some very experinced vapers commited to BF. Yet there are only a very few BF devices, really only one the REO, there are only a couple of BF RBAs.......what's up widit? why do you all think that is.Why hasn't it caught on.

Here's why I don't think it has become as mainstream as tubes:

Most people start vaping using a cig alike. Then you search the Internet and may not be lucky enough to find ECF right away and find something like vape girl. Vape girl tells you all about tubes (never mentions bottomfeeders) and proclaims the proscary is pretty much the end all PV. By the time you find ECF, you have already been brainwashed and don't even realize that bottom feeders exist. You think your setup is the shizzit, so you start to hang in their forums, start looking at more tank setups and RBAs and develop a prejudice about all other means of getting vapor in your lungs.

If you started out by visiting a B&M, it's even worse.

That was similar to my beginnings, except that I found ECF before I ever bought an expensive tube or tank. I was about to though, when a REOnaut heard my silent cry for help and suggested a bottom feeder. From there the rest was history. Picked up a REO and cartos and never looked back. I subsequently purchased 6 more brand new REOs and gravitated into quality RBAs.

For me, The one month of tube / cheap carto tank had me thinking that vaping had to be leaky, messy, inconsistent and downright ridiculous looking. I never liked how faggy the tubes looked and the total impracticality of an exposed tank? But, that is the best there is, vape girl said so. So do all those people in the new members forum. Yeah, Right.

Then you get your REO, and you have this ingenious system where you control the juice feed, and its a nearly indestructible, precision made little metal box that looks awesome and you don't have to look like some chicken head hitting off it. I was in love. End of story. Very Happy ending.

To me gennys get a bad rap because I was a cigarette smoker, not a pole smoker. Why in the world would I want to use such a ridiculous looking contraption when I can get a better vape from something as foolproof, reliable, hassle free and cool looking as a REO

 

[Rhapsodies Fire]

There is no doubt about it gennys have a huge learning curve on them, and those of us who use them are still modding them to get the best out of them.You are on your sixth build? I couldn't even begin to count how many builds I've made on my gennys.Most people who've tried gennys usually give up, because of the learning curve.Honestly when I first decided chinese crap mass produced attys, and cartos weren't for me and started looking at RBAs, my first choice was BF and REOs, but I wasn't sure if this RBA thing was going to work.The REO was an expensive mod to experment with.I started out with an AGA-t and a little spinner vv to play with before I made a commitment to RBAs, after that I invested my time in perfecting using a gennys.I don't regret it at all.Once you've mastered it gennys give an amazing vape, and with the advent of ceramic wicks, they are just going to get better as people refine the type of ceramic to use.BF are the only other style of vaping I'd seriously contemplate,over odyessus style, over kayfun style.


However can anyone explain to me why BF aren't that popular. I mean I can understand why gennys get a bad rap they are a HUGE pain in the ... in the begining...HUGE.But despite that there are probably a dozen good to great genisis atomizers to choose from.There are a dozen good to great device designed primarily for genny users.Yet from this thread I am seeing some very experinced vapers commited to BF. Yet there are only a very few BF devices, really only one the REO, there are only a couple of BF RBAs.......what's up widit? why do you all think that is.Why hasn't it caught on.

Honestly...I think it has a lot to do with form. Before I got my first Reo, my husband brought home a bunch of other box devices...some just battery mods and a few bottom feeders. I sneered at him....wanted nothing to do with it. Heck, when he bought our first Reos, I wasn't overly excited about it and only tried it out to get him to quit pestering me. Back then I was still stuck on the idea that to replace my smoking habit, it needed to look like a smoke. Boy, was I wrong. It only took a few days for me to adapt and then I was hooked. I'm a creature of habit, and changing my vaping style was not something that I felt very good about...especially since vaping in general just wasn't doing the job and I was still smoking. My success with the Reo is the whole reason I joined ECF...because it worked for me.

The other few issues with many BF devices are the size, the leaking, the cost and the lack of availability. If you don't look into Reos specifically, but just scan the "scene" for views on BF devices you'll see those complaints and figure BFs are not worth looking at. BF devices are not easy or cheap to produce, especially ones that don't leak, are of reasonable size and fairly easy to acquire.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Really enjoyed your note, especially your rant.I also don't like to mince words either, but in fairness have you ever tried hitting a genny with a ceramic wick? besides I already look like a faggy chicken head even without the mod.Yes there is something unsetteling about grown men sucking on phallic looking objects in the public arena.

Here's why I don't think it has become as mainstream as tubes:

Most people start vaping using a cig alike. Then you search the Internet and may not be lucky enough to find ECF right away and find something like vape girl. Vape girl tells you all about tubes (never mentions bottomfeeders) and proclaims the proscary is pretty much the end all PV. By the time you find ECF, you have already been brainwashed and don't even realize that bottom feeders exist. You think your setup is the shizzit, so you start to hang in their forums, start looking at more tank setups and RBAs and develop a prejudice about all other means of getting vapor in your lungs.

If you started out by visiting a B&M, it's even worse.

That was similar to my beginnings, except that I found ECF before I ever bought an expensive tube or tank. I was about to though, when a REOnaut heard my silent cry for help and suggested a bottom feeder. From there the rest was history. Picked up a REO and cartos and never looked back. I subsequently purchased 6 more brand new REOs and gravitated into quality RBAs.

For me, The one month of tube / cheap carto tank had me thinking that vaping had to be leaky, messy, inconsistent and downright ridiculous looking. I never liked how faggy the tubes looked and the total impracticality of an exposed tank? But, that is the best there is, vape girl said so. So do all those people in the new members forum. Yeah, Right.

Then you get your REO, and you have this ingenious system where you control the juice feed, and its a nearly indestructible, precision made little metal box that looks awesome and you don't have to look like some chicken head hitting off it. I was in love. End of story. Very Happy ending.

To me gennys get a bad rap because I was a cigarette smoker, not a pole smoker. Why in the world would I want to use such a ridiculous looking contraption when I can get a better vape from something as foolproof, reliable, hassle free and cool looking as a REO

 

[Blix]

I think many don't realize how convenient a Reo really is. And how great a vape you can have with the right RBA on them.

Now I only use mine for about 50% of my vaping as I have other stuff I love as well, but whenever I'm out and about, there is a Reo in my pocket.

 

[pdib]

Here's why I don't think it has become as mainstream as tubes:

Most people start vaping using a cig alike. Then you search the Internet and may not be lucky enough to find ECF right away and find something like vape girl. Vape girl tells you all about tubes (never mentions bottomfeeders) and proclaims the proscary is pretty much the end all PV. By the time you find ECF, you have already been brainwashed and don't even realize that bottom feeders exist. You think your setup is the shizzit, so you start to hang in their forums, start looking at more tank setups and RBAs and develop a prejudice about all other means of getting vapor in your lungs.

If you started out by visiting a B&M, it's even worse.

That was similar to my beginnings, except that I found ECF before I ever bought an expensive tube or tank. I was about to though, when a REOnaut heard my silent cry for help and suggested a bottom feeder. From there the rest was history. Picked up a REO and cartos and never looked back. I subsequently purchased 6 more brand new REOs and gravitated into quality RBAs.

For me, The one month of tube / cheap carto tank had me thinking that vaping had to be leaky, messy, inconsistent and downright ridiculous looking. I never liked how faggy the tubes looked and the total impracticality of an exposed tank? But, that is the best there is, vape girl said so. So do all those people in the new members forum. Yeah, Right.

Then you get your REO, and you have this ingenious system where you control the juice feed, and its a nearly indestructible, precision made little metal box that looks awesome and you don't have to look like some chicken head hitting off it. I was in love. End of story. Very Happy ending.

To me gennys get a bad rap because I was a cigarette smoker, not a pole smoker. Why in the world would I want to use such a ridiculous looking contraption when I can get a better vape from something as foolproof, reliable, hassle free and cool looking as a REO

OUCH! But, yep. I hadn't heard of it until I was well down the path of making minor investments/improvements: A "twist" is, what, like $20-25? Oh, $13 and I'm all mini Vivi, that should do the trick. Oopie, maybe $50 and this Vamo will "SOLVE THE PROBLEM". Noooooo; but! . . . . . An AGA-T is the SOLUTION . . . . . .with a mech . . . . . . BAHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Hey man I think there alot of different and ingenious ways to skin this cat.As I tell my apprentices there are at least a dozen different ways to do a thing and at least six of them are the right way.An AGA-t on a natural with a ceramic wick and a 1.3 coil is a helluva a vape.I went into a vape store with that set up and the owner hit it and asked me to sell him my set up as is to him.asked me to name my price.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

I think your really spot on about something there Drifter.Visability. BF really fly under the radar.You see very little mention of them good or bad.If you were new to vaping and saw how little exposure they got you would think they were just a footnote, and probablly wouldn't pay much attention, when you have all the hype of PRO VARI, GOLDEN GREEK, CARVELA,ZAP,AC9. taking up all the space.

 

[super_X_drifter]

I think your really spot on about something there Drifter.Visability. BF really fly under the radar.You see very little mention of them good or bad.If you were new to vaping and saw how little exposure they got you would think they were just a footnote, and probablly wouldn't pay much attention, when you have all the hype of PRO VARI, GOLDEN GREEK, CARVELA,ZAP,AC9. taking up all the space.

Yep, ^ ^ I wish I knew about the REO right away. They are obscured to the unknowing by the hype created by the truly unknowing (or those getting pay days for putting over mainstream mods).

No. I never hit a genny and in all fairness, many people, even some REOnauts say that they are awesome. I'm just very happy that I found my Marlboro Lights (REO) early on, because it took away any and all curiosity about other delivery devices. Even if a REO gave up a little to the other systems (which they don't), The form factor and reliability is enough to put the REO over the top. I have reached my vaping Valhalla and have not the slightest interest in anything "better"

I agree with you, I already look like a tool, and don't need anything to that makes me look more like one

 

[Commie]

There may be a lot of reasons why people shy away from bottom feeders:

1. If you have a mech or VV tube mod, you can put about anything on it -- carto tank, clearo, genesis, dripper, etc. With bottom feeders that would not make sense. People might think that this limits their options.

2. There are too few choices. To my knowledge, only one has a pretty screen of arguable usefulness.

3. People are used to tubes. Not sure why. I'm the opposite -- I hated tubes, which is the main reason why I tried my first bottom feeder.

4. Some people might associate BF with dripping. And dripping, as delicious as it is, is a major PITA. Something to do at home, by the fire, with a big table of supplies next to you.

5. Some people seem to assume that bottom feeders leak by design. Which is amusing, since my Reo is the first device I have that has never leaked

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Hey would anybody here be interested in putting a fc-2000 ceramic wick in their rm2, and telling me how it vapes? Heck if you don't want to buy any I'd send you a wick to experiment on.

 

[Commie]

Hey would anybody here be interested in putting a fc-2000 ceramic wick in their rm2, and telling me how it vapes? Heck if you don't want to buy any I'd send you a wick to experiment on.

I would imagine it works very well. Provided, I've never tried fc-2000, and would like to try at some point in the distant future (enjoying my Nextel and cotton too much at the moment). I've tried SS mesh though, and it tasted pretty good. Same or better than in my genny (due to smaller, less gunked up wick, and ease of dryburning). I would think FC would be a similar setup with a better result.

Nextel provides similar benefits of FC, with easier setup though.

Here's some pictures of SS setups. FC should be similar. Also, this was with 30ga wire, 28 would have done better, but I didn't have any at the time.