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Breaking chain vaping with nic salts?

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by Enso, Mar 25, 2019.

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  1. Enso

    Enso Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 31, 2017
    Vermont, USA
    Can one get out of the habit of chain vaping by using nic salts/high mg? I currently use 3mg freebase and find myself puffing away at any available opportunity. I go through about 15-20 ml+ a day, which I guess isn’t too crazy...
    I saw it suggested in another thread that nic salts could possibly reduce this tendency. Has that been the case for anyone? I’m concerned that if I were to go this route, I would just start chain vaping 25mg (or higher).
     
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  2. vapdivrr

    vapdivrr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 8, 2012
    sarasota,fl
    Any additional nic will reduce consumption, whether it be freebase or salts. The problem with salts however could be that it might not have the TH that freebase does, so finding the right mg salt might be key. Another thing is if your not DIY, you might not find your fav juice in salts. It cant hurt to buy a small bottle and compare and if you find it's not working, your only out a bottle. Have you tried upping freebase nic?
     
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  3. mac-nutty

    mac-nutty Moved On

    Mar 2, 2019
    pub
    the half life is low with salts
    its fast in, fast out mate
    best is to half and half with regular nicotine

    this link might help on normal free base nicotine if you interested
    its a study that might help you improve it's half life and absorption rate
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987715002212
     
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  4. score69

    score69 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 28, 2015
    Athens, GA, USA
    I would suggest trying 6mg freebase first, especially if you like your current DTL setup. That might provide enough nic to slow down the chain vaping.

    Salts (at least higher concentrations) are too much for anything other than MTL use for me. If 6mg freebase is too harsh to you, you could try 6mg salts in your DTL setup.

    The times I've used 40mg or higher nic salts for example in a pod, I honestly increased my overall nic consumption. It takes a while to get used to not puffing all the time and it took me a while to get comfortable back at 3mg freebase in a DTL setup. I guess this all depends on how compulsively you vape, or just do it when you feel you need the nic.

    If you can only vape when you need it, then using a higher strength nic will decrease the amount of juice you vape and the frequency. If you are just going to vape out of habit though, it's very possible your overall nic consumption may increase.

    Just my experience. Higher strengths do cut my need to frequently vape. But it takes me a while to not grab my vape all the time out of habit.
     
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  5. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    It depends on why your chain vaping.

    When you first make the switch you chain vape as a reaction to withdrawals... it's a mental comfort while your body is screaming for the millions of chemicals it's suddenly stopped getting.

    I chain vaped my rear end off when I first made the switch, but that tapered off in time quite naturally for me..

    Some people claim they never stop chain vaping, so for this group increasing the level of nicotine might be a help, but if chain vaping is just a mental comfort then that won't help and you'll just end up nic sick..

    If you are chain vaping as a mental comfort and are concerned with consumption, or would like to decrease consumption, then a low wattage low consumption device with higher levels of nicotine is for you.

    On some low powered devices you can chain vape all day and not consume 2ml of eliquid..

    So in this way you can have the best of both worlds, spend less on ejuice while still chain vaping, and yes for that you need high nicotine salts because your not consuming enough nicotine otherwise.
     
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  6. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    I chain vape at 3mg nic strength and have thought about going back to 18mg or 24mg just to see if I'd be satisfied for 20 to 30 minutes at that level. When I quit my 2 PAD cigarette habit in 2010 I was chain vaping 24mg juice.

    I smoked 2 PAD Merit Lights when I quit smoking. I could go out to the break area and smoke two cigs and be OK working in a computer room for an hour or so afterwards. After retirement I was free to smoke anytime and later I could vape as I pleased. I'd like to quit chain vaping, but really don't want to up the nic. I guess I'll have to try going back to higher nic strength and see what happens.

    Let's take a poll here. Post your experience going from low nic to high nic to reduce your vaping frequency. Did it work out or did you just vape almost as much as you did with lower nic strength?

    I'm vaping more since I dropped my nic to 3mg strength, but I don't remember how many ML I vaped when I was at 24mg. That was also a time when I was quitting smoking, so I was used to high nic from cigarettes. That, and I quit with the Joye 510 and the eGo. Those weren't quite the high end delivery devices as the Kayfun.
     
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  7. jandrew

    jandrew Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 2, 2013
    Winnipeg
    That is not actually a study, but the presentation of a hypothesis about how nicotyrine (a product of nicotine oxidization) may play an assistive role in nicotine absorption and a delaying role in nicotine clearance from the body. There are predictions and proposed research questions, but the paper is not presenting a study and there are no data, no methods, no conclusions presented. It is interesting nonetheless.
     
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  8. Shadav

    Shadav Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 4, 2013
    Westfield, IN, USA
    agreed... it really depends on why you are chain vaping
    me I chain vape because I enjoy it and find vaping relaxing, plus well my brain is always going (even in my sleep) so focusing on vaping helps a bit to slow it down....upping my nic would only make me sick

    but if you are chain vaping for your nic fix then upping your nic might just help
    if you are at 3mg, try 6mg or 12mg....if that's too harsh you can try 6 or 12mg in salt nics...if you use higher salt nics be aware not to over nic yourself, I'd say get a little pod with some high salt nics, take maybe 4 or 5 puffs of it and then vape on your normal 3mg a few times afterwards
     
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  9. score69

    score69 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 28, 2015
    Athens, GA, USA
    Dave,

    If I increase my nic moderately, for example staying DTL and increasing from 3mg to 4.5mg, or 6mg, then I notice a decrease in the freqency I vape. Usually it takes a few days, and then I've adjusted to a new routine.

    When I switch to a high nic salt of 40-50mg in a MTL or pod, by the time that few day adjustment period occurs, I find myself using at least 2x (or more) the amount of nic I previously used, and am hooked on a higher level. A few days of trying to vape less of something that much stronger, usually means I'm now needing more nic to stay satisfied.

    Similar to folks who cut their nic levels do it gradually, I think increasing gradually is more effective if the goal is to vape less frequently and not just start using massive amounts of nic.

    If I increase slowly, I find that I vape less often, and use the same amount (esentially) or nic. If I increase it too quickly, then I just get my body used to more nic/day, and have to satisfy it.

    EDIT: I have been WFH for the past 5 years or so, so like you, I pretty much just vape when I want. I DTL 3mg, and chain vape a good part of the day.

    If my next job requires me to go into an office, take smoke breaks, etc, then I will likey try to go back to 6mg DTL to decrease frequency, and carry a high strength salt in a pod that I can stealth vape in between.
     
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  10. charlie1465

    charlie1465 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Hi Enso

    I would say definitely but it will still take a bit of will power as well. I recently started making my own salt nic and vaping a pod along with my normal daily sub-ohm set up. For me I can definitely feel that satisfied feeling after a few puffs on my 36mg/ml nic salts in the morning.

    The only time I chain vaped was when I dropped my nic down to 3mg (my usual is 18mg) and clearly it was in an attempt to get more nic.

    My view is you can do this with salt nic at 36mg/ml or higher but I think you would probably be better off upping your freebase in your everyday carry. One things for sure, if you upped your nic to the strength I vape at, so 18mg you'd quickly feel pretty sick chain vaping. That's a sure fire way of slowing you down and after all nic doesn't do much harm to your body?

    Good luck :)
     
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  11. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    I may mix up a small bottle of 18mg and try it to see what happens. I vaped 24mg for 2 or 3 years before I went to DIY and started to drop my nic level. Back then, I was happy at 24mg, but that was more in the vein of getting off the smokes.
     
  12. F-machine

    F-machine Senior Member

    Nov 24, 2018
    Trapped in Asia
    To be 100% honest, in vaping, I never got that nicotine buzz that I used to get with analogs. I tried to increase my nic intake with nic salts and all I get is a bad headache. I think If I try to fool myself mixing 10 bottles with nic and 10 bottles without, and shake them in a box, I will never be able to tell which have nics and which don't from the low nics I put in my juice(3mg to 1mg). I don't know if I'm a rouge or someone else have the same experience, but adding nics to my juice somehow feels like it's only a safety net nowadays. I think I can do without it, but not without vape. Vape has taken over smoking for me, but it's up to the point now that I vape more than I used to smoke. Same with OP... with every possible chance I have.

    @Enso Tell me what happens to yah mate, if you are able to reduce the cravings with higher nic.
     
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  13. Jebbn

    Jebbn Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 2, 2018
    Australia
    The longer I go without taking a break from vaping the more I vape.
    Towards the end of 14 days it seems like I get less of a nic hit and i consume more juice because I vape more often and with shorter breaks in between sessions.
    After a two day break my tolerance is reset a bit and 4mg and about 2.5ml a day is plenty.
    I can come back after a few day's break from vaping nic and 2mg feels pretty good.
    I don't really feel any withdrawal symptoms other than I tend to get a lot done on my two nic free days every 10 to 14 days.
     
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  14. Skunk!

    Skunk! Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2014
    Las Vegas
    I used about 10ml of 6mg a day. With salts I used about 1ml of 35mg a day. I actually use less total nic with salts. It is real easy to overdo salts. I learned my lesson by giving myself a couple nasty headaches. I use both now. I mostly use the salt at work.
     
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  15. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    What's important is to look at your daily nicotine use.

    If your sub ohming 15 ml of ejuice at 3mg/ml then your nicotine consumption is 45mg per day.

    So when you are looking to switch to a MTL device, you adjust your nicotine in accordance with your consumption levels.

    For instance: If your using a MTL tank and are using 3ml per day, then you know that you will need a target nicotine level of 15mg/ml... usually in a salt form as it's less harsh on your throat.

    If someone's intake is only 45mg of nicotine per day, then 40mg/ml ejuice is far too much nicotine when your vaping 2 or 3 ml per day..

    So it's important to know your daily nicotine intake, and adjust your nicotine levels around the consumption variables accordingly.

    MTL is a less effective means of delivery than sub ohm vaping, so you may need a slightly elevated nicotine level to adjust for that difference, but it won't be very much different (whether higher or lower) so you start with the daily target intake and adjust slightly from there as needed.
     
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  16. charlie1465

    charlie1465 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Skunk...that's interesting. I can't seem to over do my salts. They're at 36mg/ml and in a Vladdin and a Rota pod the both being very tootle puffish. Sometimes I have a session of constantly pulling on my pod but never with any bad effects.

    Now my DL freebase at 18mg is different...if I chain vape that on an RDA it will make me feel pretty sick so that I don't want to go near a vape until it improves. Once it happens usually takes an hour to right itself.
     
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  17. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    Which is odd because I find salts to be dead even with freebase.. an exact equivalent.

    lol..

    I guess every one absorbs nicotine salts versus freebase differently.
     
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  18. charlie1465

    charlie1465 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    I would agree that they're even....it must be the delivery system. I only use pods for my salts...:) If I put my salts in my sub-ohm setup I think i'd know about it pretty quickly :danger:
     
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  19. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    I've never used a pod. I'm a mtl vaper anyway and I DIY's with salts for a long time, using them in my (various) RTA's. ( I vape around 12 - 15 watts)

    When I went from freebase to salts I noticed no difference at all. It was an exact equivalence...but I've never used more than 18mg nicotine. I quit on 18mg and that was where I stayed. The only thing I did was to decrease, and then stop, using nicotine.

    The only time nicotine ever impacted me was the one time I tried DL sub ohm vaping.. and I used either a 3 mg mix or a 6 (cant remember now).. it was freebase though, but that was powerful.
     
  20. charlie1465

    charlie1465 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Opinionated that's interesting because I can definitely tell the difference...having said that though it is only slight. I normally sub-ohm vape at 45-60 watts at 18mg but my 36mg salts are only used in pods which are usually around 7-10 watts.

    I tested the salts first thing in the morning as a first vape and I can definitely get a satisfied feeling after only 3-4 draws. Conversely with the freebase at 18mg 60 watt I don't really get any feeling at all except that i'm not 'climbing the walls' so I must be satisfied too. I use salts made with benzoic acid that I make myself and i'm sure I can tell that they are absorbed faster.

    I suppose I ought to 'very carefully' try the salts in my sub-ohm setup and see how that feels.
    :)
     
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