Broke my charger, can I use a spare

[Ryedan]

No no no and no... I just explained this and don't want to be rude here, but where are you guys getting this really horribly wrong info....

Again: the adapter is putting out the amount the amount that it's been built for, the device, cell phone, mod, etc. has a computerized charging circuit that detects the incoming power and balances things out, using the power to the max that it is capable of using.

It does NOT "pull" power.. argh... electricity doesn't work that way!

Here's some reading material for you guys...
The Basics of USB Battery Charging: A Survival Guide - Tutorial - Maxim

Why would I buy a 1-amp USB charger instead of a 2.1-amp charger? - Quora

The ONLY thing that can and will happen if you use a lower Amp adapter with your device is that it will take longer to charge, absolutely nothing else.

No, our mod chargers are not that smart. They draw the amps they are designed to draw and if the power supply (wall wart, computer usb port, etc) is not designed to supply that much it will heat up. Get them too hot and they will break.

I have a VS RDNA 40 that draws just under 2A when at its max and does that for a while. I measured it and it draws the same with a 0.9A wall wart or with my 3A wall wart. The 0.9A wart got so hot I didn't feel safe letting it finish the charge cycle without stopping to let it cool down part way through. The 3A wart only gets slightly warm.

The charge amp draw rating for mod chargers is the current it will use through the CC part of the charge cycle. Always use a power supply that is rated for at least that many amps. IMO more is better

 

[beckdg]

Ok...I'll add some fuel to the fire.
Batteries have to rest after they come off the charger, assume to cool down and/or equalize. So using the built in charger in a hitter, unplugging it then beginning to vape right away without letting the batteries rest can cause damage to the internal batteries? I assume it does but haven't researched it enough to know for sure since I have enough sets to rotate I don't need to use a fresh out of the charger batt.

The "rest" thing often is greatly overestimated. It is not really needed. Only tiny prolongation of battery life can be achieved, but at a price of great inconvenience.

There's a fine line here.

But it's rare it's pushed with vaping.

Especially rare it's pushed with charging of cylindrical batteries.

The chargers readily available and ready out of the box for plug and play function simply don't push the current (Ah) boundaries of today's cylindrical lithium batteries.

Simplest way is to think of it as a function of heat. Heat the batteries too much and they become volatile, possibly explosive, and if vented, fairly highly toxic.

Though truth be told, heat is a symptom of the problem that's easily identified... and not always present.

Other than a compromise in the air tight seal of the cell, the real danger is over exciting the electrolyte causing a thermo-chemical, gaseous reaction.

(Where there's smoke, there's fire... except our "safe cells" don't create flames despite reaching temperatures much higher than what we know as fire.)

We simply call this reaction thermal runaway or venting.

As the name implies, thermal runaway is HOT!!!!!!!! As the aforementioned, either indistinguishable in temperature or hotter than fire of natural fuels such as wood and fossil fuels.

But venting (seldomly) doesn't necessarily have to create heat.

All this is within the properties of the electrolyte paste that separate the anode (- or casing of the cell) and the cathode (+ or button of the cell) and carry and store the negative electrons.

In conclusion...
If you're seriously abusing your cells by the amount of current flow in each direction, coming HOT (emphasis here) off the charger directly into over current discharge use is a very bad idea.

BUT!

Given the intermittent discharge nature of vaping and the relatively low current charging nature of our preferred chargers, the issue should be a non-starter as far as concern or conversation goes in typical to even somewhat extreme use.

Tapatyped

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

No, our mod chargers are not that smart. They draw the amps they are designed to draw and if the power supply (wall wart, computer usb port, etc) is not designed to supply that much it will heat up. Get them too hot and they will break.

I have a VS RDNA 40 that draws just under 2A when at its max and does that for a while. I measured it and it draws the same with a 0.9A wall wart or with my 3A wall wart. The 0.9A wart got so hot I didn't feel safe letting it finish the charge cycle without stopping to let it cool down part way through. The 3A wart only gets slightly warm.

The charge amp draw rating for mod chargers is the current it will use through the CC part of the charge cycle. Always use a power supply that is rated for at least that many amps. IMO more is better

*sigh*.. it just does NOT work like that... you can argue all you want, it's just not going to make it so...

https://www.quora.com/Why-would-I-buy-a-1-amp-USB-charger-instead-of-a-2-1-amp-charger
Can You Use Any Charger With Any Device?
The trouble with cheap chargers | Mobile Fun Blog
Can I use a charger with more output amperage than the device needs?


The only reason that it would get as hot as you are saying is because it's absolute garbage, and if it's really giving you 2A when it's build to only do 0.9A, would be some sort of bad short in it, it is absolutely defective and extremely dangerous, and you are lucky you didn't end up with a house fire. Not only that, but a single spike could fry your mod, possible vent the batteries should it overload the mod's circuits.

I would throw that thing away as fast as possible without hesitation, no way in hell would I ever use something that bad.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Ok...I'll add some fuel to the fire.
Batteries have to rest after they come off the charger, assume to cool down and/or equalize. So using the built in charger in a hitter, unplugging it then beginning to vape right away without letting the batteries rest can cause damage to the internal batteries? I assume it does but haven't researched it enough to know for sure since I have enough sets to rotate I don't need to use a fresh out of the charger batt.

No fuel at all.. this is actually correct and standard.. any Lithium batteries that is freshly charged, should always be set aside for at least 15 to 30 minutes minimum before usage..

Yes, it can cause damage.

You're doing it right!

 

[Alien Traveler]

... any Lithium batteries that is freshly charged, should always be set aside for at least 15 to 30 minutes minimum before usage..

Yes, it can cause damage.

Not really. And I never use this "rest" thing.

 

[beckdg]

As I understand this thing, for decently made things amperage of a wall adapter does not matter (in terms of safety, not in terms of a speed of charging). Wall adapter should not "push" extra amount of ampers, charged device should not "pull" more amperes than adapter is ready to supply. If you are sure your device and adapter are "decent" ones, then no need to know their parameter. Otherwise...

That's dangerous at the very least to the power supply (wall wart, car adapter, etc).

The charge amp draw rating for mod chargers is the current it will use through the CC part of the charge cycle.

Accurate enough for a simple description.

Wall wart should put out 5.2V - 5.3V under load.

CC function of the algorithm should terminate when reading of the circuit is @ 4.19 to 4.25 V.

(FAST charging might see that as high as 4.33V, BUT!!! that's not with vaping chargers [30 to 40 A parallel charging] and the cells themselves still shouldn't exceed 4.2V when charge is terminated.)

Say this is a 2A rated power block (wall wart, etc.).

It will be rated at 5V despite its higher output (although comfortably within acceptable specs).

This example will likely be rated at 10 to 11 watts, maybe slightly higher.

Assuming the CC (constant current) function terminates at exactly 4.2V allowing the CV (constant voltage) function to set the resting voltage of the cell from there...

Assuming a very accurate (perfect as this is theory [written]) 2.0 amp charge (only applicable in the CC state)...

Your max input to the battery is 8.4 watts from a 10+ watt brick (or car adapter, etc).

Assuming 20% inefficiency in the circuit (a standard minimum) (with a better inefficiency representing a lower number) being the worst case scenario, you're now outputting 10.08 watts from your 10+ watt brick to apply 8.4 watts to your battery...

But only for a brief moment.

As the term CC (constant current) implies, that cell will see the same 2A current from 2.5V (unlikely and unrealistic low for most applications, but a suggested threshold for minimum V for several lithium cells) representing an input curve from 5 watts to 8.4 watts steadily increasing power input as the cell increases it's charge state and thus it's voltage.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Not really. And I never use this "rest" thing.

It would be silly to even consider the way you vape.

Tapatyped

 

[Ryedan]

*sigh*.. it just does NOT work like that... you can argue all you want, it's just not going to make it so...

Can I use a charger with more output amperage than the device needs?

From that link:

"Yes, it is absolutely safe to charge a device with a charger that has more current capacity than needed.

Ohm's law tells us the relation between current, voltage, and resistance:

I = V / R
(current = voltage / resistance)

Since the voltage is held constant (5V), the only factor that determines current draw is the load (another term for resistance) the device places on the charger. Thus, the device will only draw as much current as it needs and no more.

Speaking from personal experience, I've had no problems charging my phone (which only draws 700 mA) with my Kindle charger (850 mA) or my iPad charger (2.1 A)"

And:

"Now, adding a bit of info to this, if my phone can 'load' up to 2A and my charger ouput is 1A, will only give 1A or will overheat? As I can see, if the resistance is reduced, it will carry more curent, so supposedly will carry more than 1A, right? – Jorge Fuentes González Jul 14 '15

A power supply (what you're calling the "charger") rated for 1A can only provide up to 1A and still operate within spec. If your phone tries to pull much more than that it will excessively load the power supply. At moderate levels of overload the result is likely only the voltage "sagging". But at more excessive overloads the power supply may overheat and may be damaged. – Jamie Hanrahan Sep 26 '15

So if I plug a 3.5A 5V USB charger into my iPhone (which comes with a 5V 1A charger - but Apple say can work with a 2A 5V iPad charger) - this will not damage the iPhone, right? – niico Oct 19 '15

@niico correct - the iPhone will only draw the amount of current it needs (1 amp in the case of an iPhone). – nc4pk Oct 19 '15"

IMO one of the biggest reasons for the confusion some folks have about this topic is that the term 'charger' is used incorrectly. Most of the time when people say 'charger' they mean power supply (wall wart, USB hub, etc).

The following (repeated from above) covers this:

"A power supply (what you're calling the "charger") rated for 1A can only provide up to 1A and still operate within spec. If your phone [ED: charger] tries to pull much more than that it will excessively load the power supply. At moderate levels of overload the result is likely only the voltage "sagging". But at more excessive overloads the power supply may overheat and may be damaged. – Jamie Hanrahan Sep 26 '15"

I'm sure there are more intelligent wall warts out there that limit current output for their safety or intelligently communicate with the charger, but no ecig charger power supplies (wall wart) I know of come with these features. If you know of any I would be very interested to know about it

There is nothing wrong with using a dumb wall wart. My bet is that the vast majority of these gadgets out there are exactly that. Any time you have a wired wall wart (power supply 'brick') from the OEM that's what you've got. It's only an issue if you use that wart for another device which draws more current.

There is so much confusion about this topic, I play it safe and always tell people to use a power supply that is rated for at least the amp draw of the device they are powering with it. This is safe every time, for everyone, using any equipment.

 

[beckdg]

Anybody else here ever put a meter on a 5V power supply or a usb bus line?

If they're outputting 5V flat, they're damaged. Period.

(Ryedan, I know you were just responding given what you had to work with.)

In comparison, a 12V PS will output from 12.5V to nearly 15V.

Tapatyped

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

From that link:

"Yes, it is absolutely safe to charge a device with a charger that has more current capacity than needed.

ARGH.. THAT is what I've said all along. You can have same or more capacity from the adapter.. the device will adjust if the adapter is providing more power than needed.


Your comment was very misleading and comes off as you stating that you are using a 0.9A adapter and pulling 2A from it, causing it to get very hot.

" I have a VS RDNA 40 that draws just under 2A when at its max and does that for a while. I measured it and it draws the same with a 0.9A wall wart or with my 3A wall wart. The 0.9A wart got so hot I didn't feel safe letting it finish the charge cycle without stopping to let it cool down part way through. The 3A wart only gets slightly warm."

THIS is what I am saying is not possible unless your adapter is seriously malfunctioning. It CANNOT draw the "same" of "just under 2A" on a 0.9A adapter, it can only draw up to 0.9A from that adapter... not more. (AND devices do NOT "PULL", they take what's given to them)

If you have an adapter that is capable to go up to 0.9A, and you use a device that can use up to 2A, this device will be charging at what is provided by this adapter, hence 0.9A. And if that adapter is overheating from providing this 0.9A that it was built to do, then this adapter is crappy and dangerous and should be thrown in the trash. This is the sort of thing you hear with cell phone and other devices in the news, where their "chargers (aka adapters)" caused a fire because it shorted out, and most times, it's usually a really cheap replacement someone got at a dollar store or such.

This is not an insult in any way or intent, but you clearly have difficulties understand electricity and electronics... if you don't get it this time (hence your confusion on this), I'm done and can only recommend that you take some time to learn basic electrical guidelines.

 

[beckdg]

ARGH.. THAT is what I've said all along. You can have same or more capacity from the adapter.. the device will adjust if the adapter is providing more power than needed.


Your comment was very misleading and comes off as you stating that you are using a 0.9A adapter and pulling 2A from it, causing it to get very hot.

" I have a VS RDNA 40 that draws just under 2A when at its max and does that for a while. I measured it and it draws the same with a 0.9A wall wart or with my 3A wall wart. The 0.9A wart got so hot I didn't feel safe letting it finish the charge cycle without stopping to let it cool down part way through. The 3A wart only gets slightly warm."

THIS is what I am saying is not possible unless your adapter is seriously malfunctioning. It CANNOT draw the "same" of "just under 2A" on a 0.9A adapter, it can only draw up to 0.9A from that adapter... not more. (AND devices do NOT "PULL", they take what's given to them)

You clearly do not understand electricity and electronics... if you don't get it this time, I'm done.

Where's the choke point on the PS you're referring to?

What component, chip or circuit determines it's limit?

Let's see the schematics and specific components of it's current limiting circuit.

Or if it even has one!

Because insisting your point... is a false statement... by a long stretch...

1 when generalizing about all power supplies

And

2 unless you point out these specific components and their limitations.

Tapatyped

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Just to make a uber-simplified version of what's what to end this "confusion"

If device = 1A / If adapter = 1A
The device will charge at 1A
(example: full charge from 0% would be 6 hours)

If device = 1A / If adapter = 2A
The device will still charge at 1A
(example: full charge from 0% would be 6 hours)

If device = 1A / If adapter = 0.5A
The device will charge at 0.5A
(example: full charge from 0% would be 12 hours)


If device = 1A / If adapter = 0.5A
IF device is charging at over 0.5A
Get the fire extinguisher or marshmallows, that adapter is going to light up soon!

If ANY adapter gets very hot under any circumstances, you should get a new one. Adapters should never get more than "warm to the touch" no matter what you plug into it.

 

[bwh79]

If device = 1A / If adapter = 1A
The device will charge at 1A

Yes.

If device = 1A / If adapter = 2A
The device will still charge at 1A

Yes.

If device = 1A / If adapter = 0.5A
The device will charge at 0.5A

So the USB port on the adapter has a variable voltage output, then, and it self-adjusts down from 5v to a voltage appropriate for a .5A current, based on information it receives about the total resistance of the attached load either through direct measurement or computerized communication with the charging circuit? Neat!

----------

I'll just leave this here (from Why do devices under load "draw" more current?):

"It might be better to say a device or load "accepts" or "allows" current to flow, rather than saying it "draws" current. A common misconception by beginners seems to be that a power supply will force its rated current through the load - this is incorrect, only as much current as the load will accept will flow." – Peter Bennett Jan 9 '14 at 3:07

 

[beckdg]

So the USB port on the adapter has a variable voltage output, then, and it self-adjusts down from 5v to a voltage appropriate for a .5A current, based on information it receives about the total resistance of the attached load either through direct measurement or computerized communication with the charging circuit? Neat!

And there's the rub.

No.

No, they don't.

And the math above is incorrect.

If not, at least over simplified to the point of being incorrect.

.5A output from a 5.2+V output /= .5A input into a 4.2V battery...


Tapatyped

 

[bwh79]

Anyway, I know they say not to use wall adaptors that are not from Innokin as the spec can be wrong for the battery

For the record, every single electronic device says in the instructions to never use a charger, cord, or wall adapter other than those provided by the manufacturer. This isn't because of some mysterious incompatibility between brands, it's so they can legally deny you warranty service if you admit to using an off-brand accessory.

I think that all of us would tell you that it's fine to use an adapter with an amp rating higher than or equal to the needs of your device. @Imfallen_Angel will, evidently, tell you that it's also fine to use one with an amp rating lower than the needs of your device, but the rest of us, would not recommend you try that.

 

[bwh79]

And there's the rub.

No.

No, they don't.

I mean, I knew that when I wrote it, but I also think you knew I knew that, when you wrote what you wrote. Yeah?

.5A output from a 5.2+V output /= .5A input into a 4.2V battery...

Yeah, watts in == watts out, right? I assume that's just as true when charging a battery as it is when discharging one?

 

[Eskie]

Just to make a uber-simplified version of what's what to end this "confusion"

If device = 1A / If adapter = 1A
The device will charge at 1A
(example: full charge from 0% would be 6 hours)

If device = 1A / If adapter = 2A
The device will still charge at 1A
(example: full charge from 0% would be 6 hours)

If device = 1A / If adapter = 0.5A
The device will charge at 0.5A
(example: full charge from 0% would be 12 hours)


If device = 1A / If adapter = 0.5A
IF device is charging at over 0.5A
Get the fire extinguisher or marshmallows, that adapter is going to light up soon!

If ANY adapter gets very hot under any circumstances, you should get a new one. Adapters should never get more than "warm to the touch" no matter what you plug into it.

This is all assuming Joyetech/Eleaf/whoever placed a proper overvoltage/overcurrent protection IC, like a nice one from TI or equivalent, on the board. Should the budget have not allowed for such a luxury standard protection feature required for Li battery charging, that 2A wall wart feeding your poorly regulated charging circuit might not be appreciated by said battery.

Scenario #4 would probably result in charred drywall and a burning plastic odor, and Scenarios 1 and 3 would be just peachy.

Having said all that, I routinely use my 2A adapters with all my devices I'm comfy with charging by usb.

Oh, one other point. That $0.79 usb cable you picked up at 7/11 with thin wire in it? It might not enjoy being in a 2A load situation for very long, either. And absolutely, anything that gets hot should be tossed. That should never happen. Which is why spending the extra buck on a decent adapter and cord is extremely affordable compared to the potential damage that can happen from cheaping out.

 

[beckdg]

This is all assuming Joyetech/Eleaf/whoever placed a proper overvoltage/overcurrent protection IC, like a nice one from TI or equivalent, on the board. Should the budget have not allowed for such a luxury standard protection feature required for Li battery charging, that 2A wall wart feeding your poorly regulated charging circuit might not be appreciated by said battery.

Scenario #4 would probably result in charred drywall and a burning plastic odor, and Scenarios 1 and 3 would be just peachy.

Having said all that, I routinely use my 2A adapters with all my devices I'm comfy with charging by usb.

Oh, one other point. That $0.79 usb cable you picked up at 7/11 with thin wire in it? It might not enjoy being in a 2A load situation for very long, either. And absolutely, anything that gets hot should be tossed. That should never happen. Which is why spending the extra buck on a decent adapter and cord is extremely affordable compared to the potential damage that can happen from cheaping out.

Exactly!

And good point on the usb cord. I was just thinking about that myself.

Tapatyped

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

This is all assuming Joyetech/Eleaf/whoever placed a proper overvoltage/overcurrent protection IC, like a nice one from TI or equivalent, on the board. Should the budget have not allowed for such a luxury standard protection feature required for Li battery charging, that 2A wall wart feeding your poorly regulated charging circuit might not be appreciated by said battery.

Scenario #4 would probably result in charred drywall and a burning plastic odor, and Scenarios 1 and 3 would be just peachy.

Having said all that, I routinely use my 2A adapters with all my devices I'm comfy with charging by usb.

Oh, one other point. That $0.79 usb cable you picked up at 7/11 with thin wire in it? It might not enjoy being in a 2A load situation for very long, either. And absolutely, anything that gets hot should be tossed. That should never happen. Which is why spending the extra buck on a decent adapter and cord is extremely affordable compared to the potential damage that can happen from cheaping out.

Well, considering that I have 14 mods (Eleaf, Joytech, Innokin) at home that are ALL being charged via USB on a very regular basis, using various adapters (from 0.5 up to 2A), my computer's USB ports, my lamp with 0.5A output USB ports, for the last 2-5 years without even a glimmer of an issue.. I'm pretty confident about mods circuitry being just fine.

And I agree with all your points, they're just common sense really. I don't get why it's so hard for some to grab this info.

 

[Eskie]

Well, considering that I have 14 mods (Eleaf, Joytech, Innokin) at home that are ALL being charged via USB on a very regular basis, using various adapters (from 0.5 up to 2A), my computer's USB ports, my lamp with 0.5A output USB ports, for the last 2-5 years without even a glimmer of an issue.. I'm pretty confident about mods circuitry being just fine.

Then you're good to go.