BT buying e cig maker?

[Scottbee]

Aside from that if you ask any intellectual properties lawyer having a patent or trademark is one thing, having an enforcable one is something else completely, and enforcing it is a whole different game altogether...

Actually, I have read the patent on the PV (which I mentioned earlier), and it's a pretty good embodiment patent application. I didn't research prior art to see if there were conflicts with other existing and enforceable patents... but on its own, the Ruyan application is quite good and covers most of the PV technology that we are familiar with. For the most part the KR808D-1 design would probably be exempt from most bulleted claims.. but there would still be some minor encroachment.

And it would appear that Ruyan has been pretty good about enforcing and licensing the patent in China (where running rogue is rampant). I don't believe it has been really tested in the U.S. though.

 

[ladyraj]

The original post was by a very prolific author (Tiffany Ellis) of numerous e-cig articles via a PR site and a PR/distributor for E-Cigarettes National. The link supplied is to a stock tip site Quamnet.com Thus, the info has not been verified and may be mere rumor.

 

[General Idea]

It's not BT making all the money...it's the government.

Here is a breakdown of a pack of smokes in my State and where the funds are going. Keep in mind that our State and Federal government is BROKE!

My smokes cost: $4.50 Per pack

State excise tax: $1.25
Fed Tax: $1.01
MSA Trust: $ .84 (4.2 cents per cigarette sold)
Sales Tax: $ .34 (7.5%)
---------
Total Tax: $3.44

Ciggies cost: $4.50 minus tax to state and feds of $3.44 leaves $1.06 for the tobacco companies. Please keep in mind I have not included the retail mark-up in the above numbers and therefore the tobacco companies are making less than a dollar per pack. It's the State and Federal Government that are making the big bucks from tobacco smokers.

Therefore, a safe prediction for the treatment of the e-cig would be the government regulating heavy taxation via the cost of the e-cig to fund a campaign against your ability to purchase and use an e-cig.

It's a shell game...follow the dollars and the government wins.

I'm in PA, we just saw an average $.40/pack increase in tax last Sunday. Our state budget is way out of whack so Gov. Rendell Jacked up tobacco taxes to try to pick up the slack. It's been a boon to local ecig sales. They are planning to legalize table games to further reduce the state deficit.

I'm surprised the Federal govt isn't planning on funding universal healthcare with a tobacco tax.

I think taxation of eliquid would be tough. We'd probably see a lot of growth in DIY eliquid, they won't tax PG or VG, but raw nicotine?
I think it would take some major legislation to put a tax on the ecig too.
It is a legitimate fear with Philip Morris involved though, as it would give a voice to the good old boy network.

 

[Joliet]

I think this could be a good thing; in that, currently, no one knows the future of the PV or vaping in general. For all we know, it could be gone tomorrow. It sure came that close to that situation in California. If Altria were to react to this vaping scene by negotiating business with an e-cig producer, this may give smaller companies leverage. Meaning, Altria will have the funding to produce evidence and research required by federal regulators and the sorts. Right? Who wants to fight BT anyway! They've got top notch lawyers to prove they're right, almost 99.9% of the time. My $0.02 anyways...

 

[mtndude]

News Article from July 6

Ruyan Group said that an agreement between the Company and Philip Morris International Management S.A. could not be
reached on matters relating to the co-operation between them on its "electronic cigarettes" by the end of the first and exclusive
phase of negotiations.

Ruyan said it will continue to negotiate with Philip Morris on the proposed transaction and the company will commence discussions and negotiations on
similar collaborations with other tobacco manufacturers.

 

[General Idea]

News Article from July 6

And the bull and the matador make it through the first pass. whew...

 

[IANAN]

PM's patent states:



No idea what that is....

RUYAN's is still an application, not approved, and very vague...

If anything it would only cover a specific 3 piece design.

Aside from that if you ask any intellectual properties lawyer having a patent or trademark is one thing, having an enforcable one is something else completely, and enforcing it is a whole different game altogether...

I don't see them being able to sue NJoy if it wasn't approved.

 

[IANAN]

I'm in PA, we just saw an average $.40/pack increase in tax last Sunday. Our state budget is way out of whack so Gov. Rendell Jacked up tobacco taxes to try to pick up the slack. It's been a boon to local ecig sales. They are planning to legalize table games to further reduce the state deficit.

I'm surprised the Federal govt isn't planning on funding universal healthcare with a tobacco tax.

Many states fund Medicaid right now with tobacco taxes.

 

[sherid]

A mainstream PM owned/designed ecig would make me worry.

I don't think they are looking to stop the trend by buying in. They've been banking on the addictive quality of nicotine for quite some time. I would NEVER trust their eliquids though - they would find special CRACK additives to keep you coming back to their brand.

Imagine a real marlboro juice, branded and all. Heck, they could afford take a loss and give everyone in America a disposable ecig and update their mailing list while their at it.

This is a very natural move in a lot of ways - the FDA recently banned flavored cigarettes and I'll bet their marketing people are stoked with the new potential.

This I do not understand. You don't trust BT to produce e liquids, but you do trust an unknown source in China with absolutely no regulations?

 

[CHUCKLEHEAD]

I'm not worried about e-liquid. I think we will always be able to find a source for liquid.

Finding a source for decent attys... that's another story!

Thats why i now have 95 510 attys

 

[LaceyUnderall]

In 2007 they sued NJoy

And lost. And then if I remember correctly were counter sued for slander And then lost again.

The original post was by a very prolific author (Tiffany Ellis) of numerous e-cig articles via a PR site and a PR/distributor for E-Cigarettes National. The link supplied is to a stock tip site Quamnet.com Thus, the info has not been verified and may be mere rumor.

Welcome to the speculation pool!!! Tiffany is a good writer... but Keyword placement in google IS her specialty Totally agree with you on this.

 

[General Idea]

This I do not understand. You don't trust BT to produce e liquids, but you do trust an unknown source in China with absolutely no regulations?

I buy from Boge/Dekang, While I realize it's not as thoroughly tested as the FDA would like - I have sold well more than a thousand bottles of it and have yet to see anyone complain or die ( I took a return from one lady who claimed her doctor told her not to use nicotine eliquid due to a bad drug interaction). I have read up on the company, and they have earned my trust - Big Tobacco would have to do a lot more to earn my trust, It would be like a mobster trusting the cops.

We all have our fears about DEG or lead or goat urine etc, some of them well founded and others less, but it seems safe to me. I saw one Chinese liquid once, I forget where, that listed the contents to contain 10ppm of PB (lead).

I know there is a group of suppliers here looking to perform an independant test - some gas chromatography etc, would go far for assurance.

I worry about some white label bottles that are out there, but I have some confidence that I am not poisoning people with Dekang liquid.

Here are the Boge certs that do exist, from their marketing materials.

 

[Kavik79]

My smokes cost: $4.50 Per pack

you're complaining about $4.50? LOL around here they were $7.50-$8 a pack a month ago when I last bought them. When I was down in NY city a few weeks ago I saw some places selling for over $10 a pack

I'm surprised the Federal govt isn't planning on funding universal healthcare with a tobacco tax.

From what I understand, that's exactly what they do here in NY, part of the cigg taxes go towards the gov't funded Child Health Plus insurance plan.

 

[sherid]

I buy from Boge/Dekang, While I realize it's not as thoroughly tested as the FDA would like - I have sold well more than a thousand bottles of it and have yet to see anyone complain or die ( I took a return from one lady who claimed her doctor told her not to use nicotine eliquid due to a bad drug interaction). I have read up on the company, and they have earned my trust - Big Tobacco would have to do a lot more to earn my trust, It would be like a mobster trusting the cops.

We all have our fears about DEG or lead or goat urine etc, some of them well founded and others less, but it seems safe to me. I saw one Chinese liquid once, I forget where, that listed the contents to contain 10ppm of PB (lead).

I know there is a group of suppliers here looking to perform an independant test - some gas chromatography etc, would go far for assurance.

I worry about some white label bottles that are out there, but I have some confidence that I am not poisoning people with Dekang liquid.

Here are the Boge certs that do exist, from their marketing materials.

I am not worried about buying them. I do it all the time. My comment was about a poster who said that they would not trust BT to regulate e cigs. I found that laughable and ironic since BT is the most regulated industry in the history of mankind.

 

[nubee]

Usually safer and more profitable to buy a proven business plan and business than risk starting one on your own.

I think the branding aspect of any deal is where they'll try and stick it too us all again. I can see the 30ml bottle of MarB now with that red logo all around it - can't you?

 

[lotus14]

Usually safer and more profitable to buy a proven business plan and business than risk starting one on your own.

I think the branding aspect of any deal is where they'll try and stick it too us all again. I can see the 30ml bottle of MarB now with that red logo all around it - can't you?

No I can't, though it would be nice. I see sealed, nonrefillable cartridges with the Marlboro logo. Or the logo of a pharma company.

 

[TropicalBob]

Bingo, Lotus. Absolutely dead-on. And the products will have regulated, low-dose nicotine content. Drug or tobacco product, the regulations will mandate that. Goodbye, 36mg. Goodbye, refilling carts with a syringe.

Look up the Aria, if you're not familiar with it. PM has spent decades working on delivering tobacco vapor. Its early products would pave the way for approval of a new product line, as the Family Smoking Prevention act requires.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Lotus and TB - Let's also add...

If you think all that hardware and accessories you have sitting around is going to work for you as well... nope. They will gather up every style of atomizer, charger, battery, usb pass through you name it and make damn sure that their new electronic cigarette won't fit any of it. How do you think they are going to make the real money off of us "old vapers"?

Modders will be in hog heaven. The rest of us... buying all new...

 

[lotus14]

Lotus and TB - Let's also add...

If you think all that hardware and accessories you have sitting around is going to work for you as well... nope. They will gather up every style of atomizer, charger, battery, usb pass through you name it and make damn sure that their new electronic cigarette won't fit any of it. How do you think they are going to make the real money off of us "old vapers"?

Modders will be in hog heaven. The rest of us... buying all new...

Probably so, though I do think that BT either wants to kill the market by sitting on the patents, which I doubt they can do because small changes can get around patents, or use their muscle to corner it.

There is a huge untapped potential for these devices and BT knows it. For them to tap it, they'll have to produce something with enough flavor and nic that people will want to use their products.

Of course, assuming the FDA is regulating these, whether according to the tobacco scheme or the NRT scheme, they will have the final say in nic levels, and what *flavorings* are allowed by any manufacturer, including tobacco flavors.

Should be very interesting to see how this unfolds...

 

[hizen]

The original post was by a very prolific author (Tiffany Ellis) of numerous e-cig articles via a PR site and a PR/distributor for E-Cigarettes National. The link supplied is to a stock tip siteThus, the info has not been verified and may be mere rumor.

Correct...........that "news article" reads of total BS