California Prop 56 - Hidden Vape Tax

[Rossum]

No tax on the first one. The transaction takes place where the purchaser is located.

I don't think so.

Now it's entirely possible that the tax is is written in such a manner as to exempt "exports" from the state, but the transaction takes place where the seller is located. If it were not so, a vendor in California would have to collect Sales tax (and any other goofy taxes) in whatever state the buyer is in, and that's clearly not the case.

 

[Lessifer]

I don't think so.

Now it's entirely possible that the tax is is written in such a manner as to exempt "exports" from the state, but the transaction takes place where the seller is located. If it were not so, a vendor in California would have to collect Sales tax (and any other goofy taxes) in whatever state the buyer is in, and that's clearly not the case.

Isn't that why you're supposed to report and pay sales tax on purchases you make online from out of state? If the company has a physical location in the state, they're responsible for collecting it. If they do not, it is up to the consumer to report and pay.

 

[Katya]

That's all?

Yup.

A liter of base will last me 3 years, maybe a bit more. You should figure out how long it will last you.

I did. Per my calculations, 1 liter of 100 mg/ml nicotine base should last me about 5 years, maybe a little less (at 5 ml per day, 12 mg/ml). I have enough juices and nicotine base for the rest of the year, so I won't have to thaw anything anytime soon. And since the last 500 ml of my frozen stash is already 6 months old, it will be 6 years old in 2022. I don't want to store nicotine longer than 6 years unless I absolutely have to.

So right now I'm just trying to figure out what exactly happens with taxes on nicotine base (if anything). But I'm not going to buy any more base now. Worst case scenario, I can drive to La Jolla and pay cash for another liter.

Compared to smoking, DIY base would still be a bargain even with much higher taxes than anyone has proposed anywhere. But for me, it's very satisfying to know that I'll never have to pay a penny in such taxes, because I've got enough in the freezer to last the rest of my life, and I finished buying before last October 1, when PA's tax went into effect.

I'm seriously considering DIY. Theoretically, if I spend another 100 bucks or so on flavorings, I could be vaping for free for another 5-6 years. Not just tax free.

I don't like heavy flavors anyway. A drop or two of EM makes a great ECOpure (or BWB's Malty) clone; a drop of menthol makes a nice substitute for ECOpure Fresh--great and clean ADVs of yesteryear. I may add a couple of Hangsen's tobacco flavors (for variety), maybe 7 Leaves; some green tea; nice peach, pear or lychee; maybe a little diketone-free cream or custard for variety, and I'm done.

 

[Rossum]

I'm seriously considering DIY. Theoretically, if I spend another 100 bucks or so on flavorings, I could be vaping for free for another 5-6 years. Not just tax free.

I don't like heavy flavors anyway. A drop or two of EM makes a great ECOpure (or BWB's Malty) clone; a drop of menthol makes a nice substitute for ECOpure Fresh--great and clean ADVs of yesteryear. I may add a couple of Hangsen's tobacco flavors (for variety), maybe 7 Leaves; some green tea; nice peach, pear or lychee; maybe a little diketone-free cream or custard for variety, and I'm done.

Wait, you've been here since 2010 and you don't DIY?

I'm with you on the light flavors.

 

[Katya]

Wait, you've been here since 2010 and you don't DIY?

I don't DIY. I dilute (or add EM and menthol).

There was a brief time, some years ago, when I tried to DIY. Our friend @Kent C introduced me to Decadent Vapours line, then sold in the States by TW, but that didn't last because DV stopped selling their flavorings here, and I didn't feel like ordering from the UK.

I had a few favorite juice vendors who carried my ADVs, but most of them are now out of business. My favorite juice from the very beginning was Nhaler's Green Tea Lung Juice, but since Drew passed away, they don't make it anymore. Deej made great fruit and tea, he's gone too. BWB ditto. And then there was a guy who sold a lovely vanilla tobacco--gone.

*sigh*

 

[Rossum]

I don't DIY. I dilute (or add EM and menthol).

I also started by diluting. The first time I used a bottom-feeder with unflavored in the bottle to try different juices by dripping the flavored stuff in from the top, I noticed I could squonk in a whole lot of unflavored before the flavor I had been testing went away, and in some cases it never really did. That quickly led to cutting my store-bought juices by 50%, and in some cases, just dripping them in from the top with a bottle of unflavored in the mod. The latter makes a 30 ml bottle of flavored liquid last months for me now.

But enough with the digression.

I hope vapers everywhere do whatever they can to ensure that the places which implement vape taxes collect as little from such taxes as is legally possible.

Me to all levels of government: I've quit smoking and I'm done paying your "sin" taxes.

Hopefully, I'm not the only one.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes. No change. Just regular price + shipping.

Something occurred to me Last Night.

And that is... I believe the way this Tax is written, an e-Liquid that contains Nicotine would be Taxable if the e-Liquid was "Distributed" after April 1st 2017.

Meaning, if I had any Pre April 1st e-Liquids in inventory, they would not be Taxed.

I could be Mistaken about this. But this might answer why someone like NN has Not made a change to their Pricing Structure to reflect the Prop 56 Tax. And they might be Sitting on a 2 Month supply of Non-Taxable Nicotine Base.

 

[Lessifer]

Something occurred to me Last Night.

And that is... I believe the way this Tax is written, an e-Liquid that contains Nicotine would be Taxable if the e-Liquid was "Distributed" after April 1st 2017.

Meaning, if I had any Pre April 1st e-Liquids in inventory, they would not be Taxed.

I could be Mistaken about this. But this might answer why someone like NN has Not made a change to their Pricing Structure to reflect the Prop 56 Tax. And they might be Sitting on a 2 Month supply of Non-Taxable Nicotine Base.

This seems like it would go back to the the question of, are they manufacturer, distributor, or retailer. In the case of NN they are likely all 3.

 

[zoiDman]

This seems like it would go back to the the question of, are they manufacturer, distributor, or retailer. In the case of NN they are likely all 3.

I think what it gets down to is Do you have Inventory of Pre April 1st e-Liquids?

Because as Far as I know, this Tax was Not Retroactive like what PA pulled with their "Floor Tax".

 

[Lessifer]

I think what it gets down to is Do you have Inventory of Pre April 1st e-Liquids?

Because as Far as I know, this Tax was Not Retroactive like what PA pulled with their "Floor Tax".

ok... but, if your interpretation of "undistributed" is correct, and the manufacturer is sitting on pre-april 1st liquid. As soon as they distribute it, it should be taxed, and it's supposed to be the distributor who buys it wholesale who pays the tax. Then they sell it to a retailer, and their price includes the tax. Then the retailer sells to the consumer. That's how it works with cigarettes.

I have no idea how it works if the manufacturer is the retailer, and the distributor.

 

[zoiDman]

ok... but, if your interpretation of "undistributed" is correct, and the manufacturer is sitting on pre-april 1st liquid. As soon as they distribute it, it should be taxed, and it's supposed to be the distributor who buys it wholesale who pays the tax. Then they sell it to a retailer, and their price includes the tax. Then the retailer sells to the consumer. That's how it works with cigarettes.

I have no idea how it works if the manufacturer is the retailer, and the distributor.

The way I understand it, if you can Show that an e-Liquid was Made before April 1st, it shouldn't be Taxable. Like I said, I could be Wrong. But that is how I understand it. Pre April 1st Inventory is Non-Taxable.

But even so, what are we really Talking about here? Maybe a 1 or 2 Month supply of e-Liquids that don't get Taxed? Depending on what size of an Operation some is.

 

[DC2]

Compared to smoking, DIY base would still be a bargain even with much higher taxes than anyone has proposed anywhere. But for me, it's very satisfying to know that I'll never have to pay a penny in such taxes, because I've got enough in the freezer to last the rest of my life

I stopped using nicotine about 15 months ago.
At that time I had what amounted to at least a 10 year stash in my freezer.

Now, I guess, it would be considered an INFINITE stash.


On the other hand, I will go back to using nicotine as soon as I can.
Once I retire and can shop for my own health insurance.

Until then, I'm nicotine free to avoid the extortion fees imposed by my work insurance.

Worst case scenario, I can drive to La Jolla and pay cash for another liter.

You are within driving distance of La Jolla?
I had no idea!

How many miles would that be?

 

[oplholik]

Once you retire, and can get on medicare, no worries.

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

I had a few favorite juice vendors who carried my ADVs, but most of them are now out of business. My favorite juice from the very beginning was Nhaler's Green Tea Lung Juice, but since Drew passed away, they don't make it anymore. Deej made great fruit and tea, he's gone too. BWB ditto. And then there was a guy who sold a lovely vanilla tobacco--gone.

*sigh*

Just shows you can only rely on yourself. Go ahead and cough up the money for DIY flavoring. I probably bought $100 worth initially and wasted most of it. Finally found something to replace all my pricey vendors. $12/liter is quite doable.

 

[Katya]

You are within driving distance of La Jolla?
I had no idea!

How many miles would that be?

I'm in OC, so maybe 65-70 miles?

But I don't think they have a b&m, so we would have to meet in the back alley.

 

[Katya]

Just shows you can only rely on yourself. Go ahead and cough up the money for DIY flavoring. I probably bought $100 worth initially and wasted most of it. Finally found something to replace all my pricey vendors. $12/liter is quite doable.

I'm working on it.

 

[NotSoMini]

I am confused about the new tax and hope someone can set me straight. I went to purchase some juice (3mg) off the Breazy.com website located on the east coast this morning. As far as I know they do not have any B&Ms in CA however when I went to make a purchase they calculated sales tax at around 28%. Needless to say I did not buy. It is a flavor that I have been purchasing since last year from various vendors.

 

[zoiDman]

I am confused about the new tax and hope someone can set me straight. I went to purchase some juice (3mg) off the Breazy.com website located on the east coast this morning. As far as I know they do not have any B&Ms in CA however when I went to make a purchase they calculated sales tax at around 28%. Needless to say I did not buy. It is a flavor that I have been purchasing since last year from various vendors.

Not sure what to tell you?

Looks like Breazy.com sells a Lot of different Brands. Could the Brand you tried to buy have a CA Presences?

Also, not that Many Companies like to do this, but there is Nothing stopping an Out-of-State (OOS) Company from collecting a CA Tax and then Sending it to the CA BOE.

ETA: I would send Breazy and e-Mail and ask them Why are they charging you a CA Tax when they are an OOS Retailer?

 

[Lessifer]

I am confused about the new tax and hope someone can set me straight. I went to purchase some juice (3mg) off the Breazy.com website located on the east coast this morning. As far as I know they do not have any B&Ms in CA however when I went to make a purchase they calculated sales tax at around 28%. Needless to say I did not buy. It is a flavor that I have been purchasing since last year from various vendors.

I don't quite understand but if you go on their site to Shop Stores Nearby they supposedly have 10,000 shops across the US including in CA.

 

[Katya]

I am confused about the new tax and hope someone can set me straight. I went to purchase some juice (3mg) off the Breazy.com website located on the east coast this morning. As far as I know they do not have any B&Ms in CA however when I went to make a purchase they calculated sales tax at around 28%. Needless to say I did not buy. It is a flavor that I have been purchasing since last year from various vendors.

At least you won't have to worry about paying those taxes yourself.

Have you tried ordering 0 mg juice? They shouldn't tax that. See what happens. You could still pick up some 100 mg/ml nic and fortify your nic-less juice.