Camel's new ecigarette the Vuse...have you tried it yet?

[90quattrocoupe]

I used to ride motorcycles, with one of the Marlboro men back in the early 70s. He didn't even smoke, I did. He did modeling for a living, and they used him for his looks. They definitely would not have used me.

Married and nice enough guy. Definitely not a cowboy.

Greg W.

 

[90quattrocoupe]

There is another aspect to this. These disposables are not cheap. Heck, when I was in the gas station the other day, they had increased the price on the njoy(don't remember what size pack), from $7.99 to $9.99. Just crossed off the old price and hand wrote the new price.

I think, because these are so expensive and unsatisfying, that most smokers will go back to cigs after giving them a try. That may be the idea that RJR is using. I know of a least 5 people, who tried cigs-likes and went back to smoking. It was not convenient, it cost more, and probably did not have enough Nic to get them through. I got them all on Egos, and they quit.

Greg W.

 

[RedForeman]

BT is hedging their bets 3 ways:
1. Pushing for restrictions on online sales and nic juice (products they do not intend to sell)
2. Creating products very similar to cigarettes, where consumers need to constantly replenish their expensive supplies
3. Popularizing crappy products to disenchant the general public with the e-cig concept.

No. 2 I agree with, because that's the model that's been so successful for so many decades.

I disagree with No. 1 because future FDA regulation will only be enforceable on the products currently being made or planned by tobacco companies. There's no way in bloody hell that a ban on liquid nicotine sales, PG, VG or flavorings could be enforced without sending other larger industries into an even worse spiral.

I disagree with No. 3 because that's not just good business sense. They see a market that is exploding at the expense of their traditional products. They know the score--cigarette smoking is at historical lows and still declining. A part of the reason why is the electronic cigarette and they want some of the action.

I don't think any decent business is so stubborn as to think that spreading crappy products in a market that's already established will drive users back to the very reason the market is thriving the way it is. That would be a waste of millions in R&D, production and marketing costs. The shareholders would have their heads on a plate for pursuing such a stupid business model.

And FWIW, I don't care who makes a quality product. If it does what I want it do and it's being sold at a reasonable price, I'll probably buy it. Agendas are not my glass of beer, so to speak.

I tend to agree with both of you. I'll add with two things really bother me about BT and/or mass-market e-cigs:

1. They are clearly trying to align the price point with tobacco products. Look on the shelf at any store selling them. They are adjacent to the real cigarettes. No big surprise since users of the real ones are who they market to. On the other hand, very coincidental for a price check. So, with few exceptions, you will see e-cigs priced slightly lower than tobacco products. That is, if you believe their equivalency (number of puffs, battery life, and so on) claims.

The real scam here is the tax element. It's well known that the taxes are a substantial part of the purchase of real cigarettes. In some states, multiples of the actual product price. The advertised and displayed prices never itemize tax components. And rarely is it ever identified or enumerated on the sale receipt. At least in my state, the taxes are paid by the wholesaler as evidenced by the stamp on each pack. Which, of course, doesn't have any monetary value printed on it. Not too surprisingly there is no mention that e-cigs do not include those taxes. And should be priced appropriately, in my opinion. At the moment, that tax gap drops right to their profit line and the buyer is clueless. It's practically theft by deception.

2. You will not likely ever see much flavor choice beyond simulated smoke over the counter. Think about that a minute. Remember a while back when BT was marketing flavored cigarettes? Cloves? The anti-everything crowd got in an uproar, claiming they were marketing to children. Those got shut down quick and yanked off the shelves. I guarantee you that the BT legal teams have forbidden any flavors that deviate from simulating a regular burning cigarette by much.

I predict that #2 will be the lever that BT uses to put the political squeeze on the current e-cig market, especially the B&M vendors of flavored liquids. IBCR I agree that BT will stop short to protect having their own products out there. This flavor/marketing issue will be that point. By placing their products right along side tobacco, and keeping them tightly coupled, they can push a greater agenda that would harm suppliers of better, more diverse products.

IBCR I also agree that BT will not push a "poison the well" marketing plan with their products. But seriously, look at the nasty benchmark that exists. It's not like they have a high hurdle to create a flavor better than a cigarette. And their target market of current smokers are too dull to know any better. To them it's just "different." And, another good reason to chase flavor out of the market. Crazy like a fox.

 

[NiNi]

Care to share more info on this interesting and possibly misread or misinterpreted bit of info

There was one man who was the predominant Marlboro man for about 20 years who was actually a cowboy. There were many others actors who didn't last very long, and a few picked up from the rodeo ring. The 2 men who were supposed to THE Marlboro Men who it's been said both died of lung cancer isn't true. It was actually 3.
There were several "actors" that didn't even smoke. Some were used for print ads and other for commercials.
This particular man was used in print ads, and he later started a modeling agency in Phoenix with a business partner. My dad met him through his own business, which was Scandinavian imports, soon after my mom filed for divorce.
They were together almost 10 years and active in the AIDS Foundation Of Arizona. He died in 1995.
I won't put out a name because his family disenfranchised themselves from him when he openly announced he was gay, and later was involved in legal litigation over his estate against my dad.
I have to clarify that the actual cause of death was pneumonia, due to his AIDS status. He had been HIV for about 12 years and when it progressed to AIDS, he lived maybe 6 more weeks.
Did that answer your questions?

BTW: This particular Marlboro Man HAD been married, "for appearance's sake".

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

1. They are clearly trying to align the price point with tobacco products. Look on the shelf at any store selling them. They are adjacent to the real cigarettes. No big surprise since users of the real ones are who they market to. On the other hand, very coincidental for a price check. So, with few exceptions, you will see e-cigs priced slightly lower than tobacco products. That is, if you believe their equivalency (number of puffs, battery life, and so on) claims.

The real scam here is the tax element. It's well known that the taxes are a substantial part of the purchase of real cigarettes. In some states, multiples of the actual product price. The advertised and displayed prices never itemize tax components. And rarely is it ever identified or enumerated on the sale receipt. At least in my state, the taxes are paid by the wholesaler as evidenced by the stamp on each pack. Which, of course, doesn't have any monetary value printed on it. Not too surprisingly there is no mention that e-cigs do not include those taxes. And should be priced appropriately, in my opinion. At the moment, that tax gap drops right to their profit line and the buyer is clueless. It's practically theft by deception.

2. You will not likely ever see much flavor choice beyond simulated smoke over the counter. Think about that a minute. Remember a while back when BT was marketing flavored cigarettes? Cloves? The anti-everything crowd got in an uproar, claiming they were marketing to children. Those got shut down quick and yanked off the shelves. I guarantee you that the BT legal teams have forbidden any flavors that deviate from simulating a regular burning cigarette by much.

Good point on the taxes. Right now, we only pay sales taxes on the products we buy locally, whether it's a disposable or a bottle of joose from our local B&M.

However, your points go back to mine about us not being the target market for what the tobacco companies are offering now or plan to offer. They know that they're losing customers, either through death or cessation. They can't do anything about the former, but they can sure capitalize on the latter.

That's what they're trying to do, and that's why disposables and their prefilled cartridges disappoint us so much. We're not smokers anymore; we're vapers. We expect better flavor, performance and durability than the products they are marketing. I frankly believe they're making a huge mistake because sooner or later most people who cross over to the Vape Side will want more flavor and better performance, but that's a topic for another discussion.

This means it makes sense to make products that cater to the habits and expectations of current smokers. Not only their own customers, but the consumers of their competitors' products. Cigarette brand loyalty is one of the most dominant features of the market. People will smoke one brand of cigarettes until that brand is no longer available.

Vapers, not so much. There are too many device and flavor options available to the knowledgable e-cig user. The tobacco companies either don't realize this, or they don't realize that any ban on options that include refillable devices and myriads of flavors is years in the offing and even then will be unenforceable.

 

[dwarfcat]

There was one man who was the predominant Marlboro man for about 20 years who was actually a cowboy. There were many others actors who didn't last very long, and a few picked up from the rodeo ring. The 2 men who were supposed to THE Marlboro Men who it's been said both died of lung cancer isn't true. It was actually 3.
There were several "actors" that didn't even smoke. Some were used for print ads and other for commercials.
This particular man was used in print ads, and he later started a modeling agency in Phoenix with a business partner. My dad met him through his own business, which was Scandinavian imports, soon after my mom filed for divorce.
They were together almost 10 years and active in the AIDS Foundation Of Arizona. He died in 1995.
I won't put out a name because his family disenfranchised themselves from him when he openly announced he was gay, and later was involved in legal litigation over his estate against my dad.
I have to clarify that the actual cause of death was pneumonia, due to his AIDS status. He had been HIV for about 12 years and when it progressed to AIDS, he lived maybe 6 more weeks.
Did that answer your questions?

BTW: This particular Marlboro Man HAD been married, "for appearance's sake".

Yes, thanks for sharing. That is pretty cool

 

[NiNi]

The "Tax Element" really is the big scam angle. BT could probably market their cig-a-likes for $3.00, but they'd be competing against their own product, cigarettes. When you think about it that way, they're REALLY pulling a profit off their e-cigs.
I watched RJR's video on Vuse (the product and the minds behind it) after the posted video above ended.........they make it sound and look like you have to know rocket science and computer tech to "invent" their cig-a-like. They call their e-juice "V-Juice", like what's up with that? Really chaps my hide that they use "Tobacco" or "Tobacco Product", get a grip RJR! Their mouths are moving but all I hear is bull*cough*!

 

[RedForeman]

That's what they're trying to do, and that's why disposables and their prefilled cartridges disappoint us so much. We're not smokers anymore; we're vapers. We expect better flavor, performance and durability than the products they are marketing. I frankly believe they're making a huge mistake because sooner or later most people who cross over to the Vape Side will want more flavor and better performance, but that's a topic for another discussion.

I think it is relevant to this topic. I think it's a stretch to assume most people will move on from disposable OTC mass-market products. Sure, a few will discover better options. They'll see someone else with a fancy PV or flashy looking tank and ask about it. Or maybe see one featured on TV or a movie. I think the majority will move from the cigarettes on the left to the not-cigarettes on the right and keep on trucking. I also believe that the majority of smokers are never going to investigate options beyond what is easily in front of them. They aren't going to spend hours reading up on the topic, nor spend a lot of money trying different stuff out that may not work out.

I tend to think about my own smoking days along this line. I don't recall ever being interested in visiting a pipe or tobacco shop to try something new or different. I never even bothered with the other tobacco products at the same counter like snuff or cigars. I'd get my carton of Camel filters and just go. I think people that try this product or the like will probably have that same tendency, for the most part.

 

[RedForeman]

The "Tax Element" really is the big scam angle. BT could probably market their cig-a-likes for $3.00, but they'd be competing against their own product, cigarettes. When you think about it that way, they're REALLY pulling a profit off their e-cigs.

Exactly. And nobody is the wiser. They pick one or the other and just pay the posted price.

I watched RJR's video on Vuse (the product and the minds behind it) after the posted video above ended.........they make it sound and look like you have to know rocket science and computer tech to "invent" their cig-a-like. They call their e-juice "V-Juice", like what's up with that? Really chaps my hide that they use "Tobacco" or "Tobacco Product", get a grip RJR! Their mouths are moving but all I hear is bull*cough*!

Probably not untrue. Since they are a tobacco company, it makes sense that might be the source of their nicotine supply. All the rest is unremarkable marketing hype. If they don't put their product out there as the most advanced, well thought out product on the market, someone else will. I see the same claims for products from breakfast cereal to maxipads. At the end of the day there's only so much meaningful product development claim one can promote with.

 

[Zealous]

I would not & could not trust any of the BT ecigarettes considering what they did to regular cigarettes. They might improve on their product, but I would be concerned that the "improvement" would be extra additives added to the juice to make it more "pleasant" to the consumer. No thanks. If the day comes when I can no longer buy juice from a trusted site & have to either go without or get it from BT I will go without.

As for it being a "good" thing for them to get their own ecigs out there I don't know if that's true. I can't help but be suspicious. How does one know that their motivation in doing this is not to insure that whatever "addictive" qualities that keep their patrons coming back for their cigarettes are not also present in their ecigarettes? They might not be doing that yet. But I can't imagine this not being on their minds. I don't think they WANT people not craving one of their cigarettes.

 

[NiNi]

How does one know that their motivation in doing this is not to insure that whatever "addictive" qualities that keep their patrons coming back for their cigarettes are not also present in their ecigarettes?

That's EXACTLY where my head is at!

 

[Myrany]

why would you suggest anyone even try it?

RJR is actively spreading lobbying money around congress to limit online sales, "loose juice" and other vaping options

do not give you money to the enemy

You know what I could see a situation where I would pick up a blu or another cigalike you can get at the gas station.

If my last battery broke (I work hard to not let this happen) I would pick one up because I refuse to go back to cigs. I have no local B&M. I have to order stuff. TO get through the intermediate time between placing the order and receiving it? Yeah I would use a gas station cigalike no matter who makes it. It is better than smoking.

 

[rico942]

Gotta echo the sentiment in many of the replies here, something in my contrary nature rejects the prospect of giving a major tobacco company one more dime of my dinero. I supported them for 46 years, they can live without my contribution ...

If "rolling your own" cigarettes had been as fun and interesting as experimenting with vaping gear, I probably would have gone down that path decades ago. But it was a nuisance, and tasted lousy, as I recall ...

If I'm going to cater to an addiction, I want some semblance of control over it, not just shelling out a wad of cash for a box of dead leaves and paper, or a sealed disposable mystery tube from that same company ...

Tried the NJOY, loved the taste, hated the absurd price. Tried the Blu, even before Lorillard bought them, tasted disgusting to me ...

Always keep a few White Cloud minis around for when the battery dies or the tank is empty ...

BT disposables ? No thanks ...

 

[WCSR]

My stupidity drove me to smoke for 20 years, not tobacco companies. I have no problem taking personal responsibility for what I did. I wasn't tricked or fooled into smoking or continuing to smoke. They provided a product I enjoyed and probably still would enjoy, if it weren't dangerous.

Exactly... People act like they were forced into smoking, and then forced to continue smoking against their will.

Anyone who smoked for a year or two, logically knew it wasn't good for them, despite what the "doctors" said. The coughing, shortness of breath, and all other symptoms of smoking that all smokers commonly shared were a dead give away that it wasn't healthy. Even after reports started coming out 25+ years ago that smoking was horrible for our health, we continued...some of us for many many years. Many of us even picked it up AFTER that knowledge became well established and even proven.

BT offered a product that many people enjoyed. A product that people even had rituals built around. A product that we would have chosen over a meal with our last few dollars. Don't be mad at them because you chose to keep doing it. Be mad at yourself.

Hope to see a teardown video of it soon. I'm curious as to what's contained in it.

I'm sure they're probably not much different than any other e-cig/vaping product. Tobacco companies would be foolish to taint their new products with chemicals that can be easily detected with basic chemistry tests. They've already been put under the microscope for years with the additives in their cigarettes, making that mistake again would all but kill it for them before it even makes it out of the gate.

 

[supermarket]

My stupidity drove me to smoke for 20 years, not tobacco companies. I have no problem taking personal responsibility for what I did. I wasn't tricked or fooled into smoking or continuing to smoke. They provided a product I enjoyed and probably still would enjoy, if it weren't dangerous.

No one is blaming big tobacco for their past usage of tobacco products....we are simply saying that we spent enough time as slaves to these companies.....and I think I speak for most here when I say: WE DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THOSE COMPANIES ANYMORE.

 

[LDS714]

As far as flavor of the cig-alikes, let's not discount the Pavlovian association between the taste of a burning cigarette and the cessation of the nicotine craving. It's very powerful.

New vapers generally don't understand or immediately grasp the concept that the same relief can come from something that tastes like watermelon bubblegum, blueberry muffins, coffee, etc., etc. I know I was skeptical about flavored liquids at first...

 

[Intervap]

Swisher also has some now too. They were pretty cheap, however, I didn't pick them up.

These were literally THE first e-cig I had ever tried. I bought three of them and they lasted me a week, not too bad. The flavor was good, but then again I was on the stinkies back then not as good as the NJoy as far as satisfaction goes though.

 

[EvilZoe]

As far as flavor of the cig-alikes, let's not discount the Pavlovian association between the taste of a burning cigarette and the cessation of the nicotine craving. It's very powerful.

New vapers generally don't understand or immediately grasp the concept that the same relief can come from something that tastes like watermelon bubblegum, blueberry muffins, coffee, etc., etc. I know I was skeptical about flavored liquids at first...

I don't know that the taste of the Blu would have made me stop the analogs. It was vile.

 

[drsocal]

Yeah, I didn't care for the taste of blu either...

 

[username1970]

I just picked up a Vuse since they sent me coupons. I got the Vuse Solo and 2 cartridges for free (minus $1.17 in taxes). It's lightweight and as advertised was charged and ready to go. The taste isn't really to my liking. It's not horrible, but I can't say I care for it much. YMMV. I prefer the 555 from Smokeless Image, but I realize taste can be a very subjective thing.

It does give off a decent amount of vapor so it's better than some of the gas-station brands I've tried. I forgot to ask how much it was, but the "System" was $32.95 and includes the battery, 3 cartridges, USB charger, AC adapter and a carry case. The Solo is just the battery, one cartridge and the USB charger.

I'm not seeing anything about its "Smart Memory" which "Takes the guesswork out of how many puffs remain in each Cartridge and when a Cartridge is depleted." (Yes, they capitalized "cartridge" for some stupid reason.) I don't see any LED or anything that will take the guesswork out of when it's done or nearly done.

It looks okay - perhaps a little larger than a conventional cigarette. The battery is chrome colored and shiny and the cartidge is black with a red band around it (the menthols are green instead of red).