Can anyone help me refute this?

[RPadTV]

Sometimes, people tend to fear that which they do not know. Just think...wonder who was the first guy to eat an octopus? Was he scared? probably. But we wouldn't have calimari without it

I'm actually curious about the first person that decided to eat a lobster. "Hey, this water-insect thing sure looks tasty!"

As for vaping, my doctor agrees that it's not exactly healthy, but it's much healthier than tobacco cigarettes.

 

[user808a]

Argue with more links.

Feel free to copy and paste and send.

One person with one reaction to something is not conclusive. I'd rather take the chance at getting pneumonia than COPD, emphysema, and cancer.

With cigs you get nicotine mixed with lots of carcinogens and other chemicals.
http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotineinhaler/a/cigingredients.htm

With vaping you get nicotine and pg/vg. Pg and vg are inert in the body and are used in many things we consume.
Propylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Glycerol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nicotine alone has not been proven to be a carcinogen but can help cancer grow.
Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nicotine has positive benefits too.
Discovery Health "How can nicotine be good for me?"

Vaping is not as healthy as not vaping but it is so much better than smoking. Going outside exposes us to harmful sun radiation, should I quit that too?

And if all else fails, I don't smell like smoke anymore. People should be happy about that.

 

[zapped]

I wouldnt send her anything back.Unfortunately there are just some people in life who will NEVER change their mind no matter how many facts they are presented with.I think this is partially due to them "thinking" with their feelings instead of using their brains.

I recently had to drop my own sister from my friends list because she couldnt refrain from attacking my political opinions on MY facebook page.When she couldnt win a political argument she started airing our families dirty laundry in public instead in private like it should have been handled. I know it hurts but honestly, were better off sometimes without certain people in our lives.Your 'friend" and my sister sound like two of those people.

 

[junkman]

Amazing to me that one (1) person's medical problem is publicized in this way.

 

[junkman]

I'm actually curious about the first person that decided to eat a lobster. "Hey, this water-insect thing sure looks tasty!"

I think I read some where they used to use lobster as cheap animal feed and then started feeding it to prisoners liked it! They must have noticed the prisoners. I guess at the time lobsters were incredibly abundant so it was cheap.

 

[zapped]

Calamari is actually made from squid, not Octopus!

 

[tnt56]

Welcome to ECF and congrats on quitting the analogs. Now for my story. I have Severe COPD and can't count the times that I've been transported to the ER by an ambulance. Since I've started vaping (I do smoke a few analogs a day. Went from 2-3 packs a day down to 5-10 analogs per day.) My last visit to my lung doctor, (sorry I can't spell the right word for him), Was thrilled when he found out what I had done. I even took several bottles of juice I had and ask him to look at it. I was informed by a specialist that most of what was in the juice was the same stuff in my breathing treatments. When I told him I wasn't doing my treatments anymore He became even more thrilled. I was having to take 2-3 treatments per day and now just have to do it when I feel the need. Mostly when the air quality is poor. My own sister is not very happy about me vaping, but as long as I am feeling better and doing better I don't care what others think. The Doctor also informed me that my lungs have never sounded as clear as they do now and my B/P was almost normal again. Like I said in the begining this is just my own personal story.

 

[jdrewry]

To the OP:

I did quite a bit of research before I started using e-cigs; one of the earliest conclusions I came to was that there wasn't as much research done on the full effects of e-cigs versus using tobacco. That makes sense; e-cigs haven't been around that long, I believe. I know that there are those doctors, and some institutions, that have it in their plans to conduct studies soon, but the e-cig history is at that point that, for every article you find on the Web that talks about the good, you'll find equally compelling stories about the bad. All that matters to me is, I'm done with smokes, I didn't have to use some mood-altering drug like Chantix, my doctor is happy I quit smoking (which is more important that any article I've found on the Web, regardless of who it came from), my girlfriend is happier, and my wallet is happiest of all (no more $8.25/day for smokes).

You can choose to believe the articles, but I've found that those people who don't want to hear both sides of e-cig use are basically lkost causes when you try to speak to them. As long as you're feeling good, and your doctor is happy with the results, dpon't sweat every "bad" article about e-cig use.

 

[vsummer1]

THANK YOU for all the responses they are very much appreciated. I'm rushing at the moment, but I will check out all the links provided after work today.

This is one of those people that you'd really to say 'F@@@ off' to, unfortunately I can't. I think bombarding with information might be just as good though.

I agree that perhaps telling them to F off my be something you can't do, but you would be surprised at what you CAN do. You can tell them that while you appreciate their concern about your health, it is a matter between your doctor and yourself and you don't care to discuss it with them.

Every time they bring it up, do the same thing and point out that it is between you and your doctor and that you prefer to trust medical professionals (I am an RN, another poster mentioned their pulmonologist was in favor of it). Then either ignore them completely or change the subject. Be consistent, and keep saying the same thing over and over and they should finally leave you alone. What I wouldn't do is try to convince them by engaging them in a discussion.

No point in arguing with an idiot. I wouldn't even bother TRYING to change their mind. It is THEIR problem, not yours. Apparently too many people let them spout their venom so they are used to getting away with it.

ETA: I would also remind them that your personal health matters are just that, personal. If it is a coworker, remind them that continuing to pester you about your personal health is creating a hostile work environment. Because that is what they are doing, being hostile.

 

[damthisisfun]

Discussing e cigs with a with some ppl - especially a non smoker or ex smoker - is like talking to a tree - no - you may have better luck with a tree. lol. I think e cigs are safer than analogs - but we really dont know if they cause no harm. A couple of my friends keep telling me similar stuff - and one quit analogs a few years ago (those are the worst to talk to) - i finally decided to tell em - "thanks for you advice - but leave me alone. I am adult and would like to make my own decisions." BTW - i too visited my Dr for unrelated seasonal allergies. She was happy I quit analogs and use e cigs - but also said -although it is safer and better - I should try to eventually quit that as well....but then again - might as well give up breathing too - the reason i visited her was because of breathing in pollen.....lol

 

[tj99959]

There will always be those that bash and those that defend. No doubt vaping has risks, and most of us understand that. It just has less risks than smoking.
So just ask her how harm reduction is a bad thing, and leave it at that.

 

[cags]

Sorry to say this, but if an acquaintance had the gall to to spam me with complete BS, they would no longer be an acquaintance but someone I would avoid like a rabid dog. Does this person drink coffee or soda? Because nicotine is a mild stimulant just like caffeine is. I don't do caffeine, but you won't catch me bothering all the caffeine addicts out there. And if this person does do caffeine, they are not only a pimple but a hypocrite as well.

I hate know-it-all doo goody people with nothing better to do than bother me about MY decisions.

You can tell them that while you appreciate their concern about your health, it is a matter between your doctor and yourself and you don't care to discuss it with them.

Every time they bring it up, do the same thing and point out that it is between you and your doctor and that you prefer to trust medical professionals (I am an RN, another poster mentioned their pulmonologist was in favor of it). Then either ignore them completely or change the subject. Be consistent, and keep saying the same thing over and over and they should finally leave you alone. What I wouldn't do is try to convince them by engaging them in a discussion.

No point in arguing with an idiot. I wouldn't even bother TRYING to change their mind. It is THEIR problem, not yours. Apparently too many people let them spout their venom so they are used to getting away with it.

ETA: I would also remind them that your personal health matters are just that, personal. If it is a coworker, remind them that continuing to pester you about your personal health is creating a hostile work environment. Because that is what they are doing, being hostile.

I agree with both. I really like the "inform them it's between you and your dr" and I will be using that when I can't tell them where to go! I would also ignore the emails if you can't tell them to stop spamming you! people REALLY need to learn to mind their own business, lord I miss the good old days when people didn't seem so judgmental. I can't wait til "they" take away a right your acquaintance wants !

 

[DMAudio]

One thing this 'acquaintance' failed to say was congratulations! Regardless of the circumstances, you've successfully managed to break an incredibly powerful addiction to a product which is quite bad for your health. Giving up smoking is no picnic, and I'd like to think anyone that manages to do so deserves plenty recognition. Of course as has been said, vaping isn't entirely without risks, but in the grand scheme of things, is it any more dangerous than what 'may' lurk inside that one unlucky meal at the restaurant, or crossing the road, or driving a car...?

It reminds me of a clip from The West Wing;
"Number of people killed each year getting change out of vending machines = 4"...number of people killed by pneumonia induced by vaping = 1

DM

 

[DC2]

If you read the study and check out her background, she is one messed up physical specimen.

But if someone wants to attribute this to lipoid pneumonia then this is a good thread to start with...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...attempts-implicate-e-cigarettes-uk-death.html

 

[Njt07]

These were my references for a paper I had to do recently for a pitch project. I chose a pitch for a made up company to separate the policies for Ecigs and tobacco products.

Insurance Quotes - Health - Smoker's Rates. (n.d.). WebQuotes. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from Insurance Quotes - Health - Smoker's Rates
Website for health insurance quotes. The site says that smokers are charged anywhere from 10-40% more on health insurance vs. a non smoker. Also addresses that most insurance companies look more at weight than smoking.

Koch, W. (2012, September 17). FIERY DEBATE Some 'vape' to kick habit.USATODAY.com. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from FIERY DEBATE Some 'vape' to kick habit - USATODAY.com
Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves.

Kozlowski, L. T., Strasser, A. A., Giovino, G. A., Erickson, P. A., & Terza, J. V. (2001, September). Applying the risk/use equilibrium: use medicinal nicotine now for harm reduction. National Center for Biotechnology Information. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1747574/pdf/v010p00201.pdf
Use of medicinal Nicotine as a means of harm reduction for patients with health risks associated to tobacco. NRT is urged now.

Laugesen, M., Thornley, S., McRobbie, H., & Bullen, C. (2008, March 29). How Safe is an E-Cigarette? Health New Zealand. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from http://www.healthnz.co.nz/Portland2008ECIG.pdf
Independent test done by Health New Zealand shows Ecigs have similar levels of nitrosamines (carcinogens from tobacco and tobacco smoke formed from tobacco and nicotine alkaloids) as Nicotine Replacement Therapy gum, 8ng/g as compared to the 1200 ng/g in a cigarette before it is lit. The article also reports the presence (ppm) of some other chemicals but far, far below, or not detectable (LOD), of OSHA allowable concentrations.

Laugesen, M. (2009, April 30). Ruyan E-Cigarette Bench-top tests. Health New Zealand. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from http://www.healthnz.co.nz/DublinEcigBenchtopHandout.pdf
Another clinical test showing the absence of toxicants in Ecig vapor

McAuley, T. R., Hopke, P. K., Zhao, J., & Babaian, S. (2012, October). Comparison of the Effects of E-Cigarette Vapor and Cigarette Smoke on Indoor Air Quality.An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Comparison of the Effects of E-cigarette Vapor and Cigarette Smoke on Indoor Air Quality. Abstract of article regarding recent test conducted by Consulting for Health, Air, Nature, & A Greener Environment, LLC (CHANGE) sponsored (testing paid by donations to) the National Vapers Club. Test found Ecigs have no significant risk of harm to human health for the samples tested as opposed to tobacco cigarettes having a significant risk.

McGregor, J. (2011, July 7). Should companies penalize employees who smoke?Washington Post. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ees-who-smoke/2011/04/01/gIQAENh71H_blog.html
A Washington Post blog regarding companies that charge higher premiums, or other penalties, to smokers vs. non-smokers.

Moxham/Professor of Respiratory Medicine, J. (2000, February 12). Nicotine addiction.National Center for Biotechnology Information. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from Nicotine addiction
Article from the Royal College of Physicians of London which acknowledges the difficulty of quitting smoking, the addictiveness of nicotine, the efficiency of cigarettes and the additives they contain to deliver that nicotine, the over-regulation of Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT) products as compared to the low regulation of the tobacco industry and the inefficiency and inability of patients using NRT to successfully quit due to its deficiencies, namely nicotine delivery is too slow although they don’t address the psychological deficiencies of NRT products to smokers.

Parrott, A. C. (1999, October). Does Cigarette Smoking Cause Stress? American Psychological Association PsycNET. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/amp/54/10/817/
Abstract for article that shows that smoker stress relief from cigarettes is actually a stress caused by nicotine withdrawal and the feeling of stress relief post smoking is from the nicotine in the cigarette. The article references a cycle of stress relief immediately post smoking to increased stress in between smoking caused by increased and decreased levels of nicotine in system.

Puck/University of Chicago, Dept of Medicine and BioChemistry, T. T. (1947, January 31). The Mechanism of Aerial Disinfection by Glycols and other Chemical Agents.National Center for Biotechnology Information. Retrieved October 6, 2012, from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2135685/pdf/729.pdf
Study of Propylene Glycol in its vaporized phase as a disinfectant and prevention of airborne contagion from airborne bacteria and viruses.

Sanders et al/EPA Antimicrobials Division, F. T. (2006, September 29). Reregistration Eligibility Decision for Propylene Glycol and Dipropylene Glycol. US Environmental Protection Agency. Retrieved October 6, 2012, from http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/reregistration/REDs/propylene_glycol_red.pdf
EPA study on the effects and toxicity of Propylene Glycol. The EPA found no toxicity and references the many uses of PG ranging from air disinfectants (aerosol), to pet treatment to reduce pests.

Tang, J. L., Law, M., & Wald, N. (1993, November 1). How effective is nicotine replacement therapy in helping people to stop smoking? | BMJ. BMJ. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from How effective is nicotine replacement therapy in helping people to stop smoking? | BMJ
The clinical test showed approximately 6% of smokers were able to stop smoking using nicotine gum, and 9% to stop smoking using nicotine patches.
TIME Magazine (1942, November 16). Medicine: Air Germicide - TIME. TIME.com. Retrieved October 5, 2012, from Medicine: Air Germicide - TIME
Back in the late 1930s, researchers at the University of Chicago stumbled onto Propylene Glycols effectiveness as a germ-killer, as related in this Time magazine story from Nov. 16, 1942.
Full story copy pasted: Very Interesting Article | rocknrollvapor.com

 

[AttyPops]

Well, it's better than smoking, that's for sure. If the other NRT products didn't work for you, what's your choice?

That case study was far from conclusive. There are a lot of other factors noted such as drugs taken, exposure to fumigation chemicals, and that hyperlipidemia can contribute also (but maybe not in her case). Still, it could be an indicator for some people that excessive VG inhalation can be an issue. I get a "Heavy lung" feeling with too much VG anyway. I am going to reduce my VG use even further and maybe see if I can eliminate it long term. One less thing to keep around for DIY.

What the study DIDN'T say was as important as what it did say. They didn't say if it was 100% VG juice. They didn't say that all VG is not necessarily the same. They didn't give an analysis of the juice which is implicated as the culprit.

They did indicate that quitting e-cigs seems to help in her case. So...Hmmmm......