Can we stop recommending RBA's and mechs to beginners please?

[SaltySteele]

Ultimately, though, if someone sees an rda as the answer to their prayers, they're going to get an rda with or without anyone's blessing.

I guess it depends on a person's aptitude with these types of things. me? I've been taking things apart (electrical items) and putting them back together since I was a child. I remember taking my walkman-type tape player apart to fix it after it quit working. I took an electrical class at our high school's vocational technical center, not just building circuit boards, but actually etching the circuit paths and drilling the boards, before building them. Building coils was nothing for me, nor understanding resistance, voltage or watts.

Interacting with me on the internet, you wouldn't know that. Nor do we know what others are capable of. Unfortunately, we don't have an aptitude quiz to evaluate someone's knowledge/skill set that we may see when advising them. You can use a mech mod to run a non-rebuildable atty, so i don't see them as only for experienced when used thusly.

I'm not good at evaluating whether something is "easy," or not for beginners, though. I was rebuilding my kanger dual coil replaceables before getting an actual rebuildable, because I like to tinker. My kayfun was difficult for me, only because of the wicking. After building coils for my mini protank, the kayfun coils were a cinch!

I helped my little brother get started, after he used and ceased the use of ego types and starting smoking again. He bought an aerotank and svd. Later, helped him pick out a mech mod, but still only had him get a nautilus, because I don't know if he could do a rebuildable, yet.

Wow! All that just to say, I may have been one of the offenders, because I forget we don't all share the same understanding. For this, I am feeling very guilty. I apologize.

 

[diceman1000]

I'm fairly new to vaping, about a month solid now. Started out with a VX Vapors ego starter kit and juice from the same company (YUCK). Then I got my wife and I some Vision Spinner 2s, a couple of Nautiluses(that turned out to be fakes) and an Aerotank and Protank 2 and some real juice from CC Vapes.

I have recently been babbling in rewicking the PT 2 heads and just got a roll of 28ga Kanthal, some organic cotton, and an Eleaf ohm meter( I have a DMM but this being 510 threaded just makes it easier), and am going to start rebuilding my Aerotank(as singles) and PT 2 heads.

Now, I'm no stranger to electricity as I have been a car and home audio enthusiast for roughly 26 years and I can watch a video and follow instructions. But I agree a1000% that recommending a mechanical mod and an RBA or RDA to someone that has no clue what a watt or ohm is is just silly.

I'll be honest though, this early into it, I'm already wanting a Kayfun clone, hence the practice on the Kanger coils[emoji1]

 

[AzPlumber]

Another issue that's gaining speed is all these new B&M's that are popping up and selling Mech's and RDA's to people that have never vaped. They make the sell and send them down the road with absolutely no knowledge of what they just purchased. No battery safety instruction, no information on their setup & no ohm meter.

 

[HecticEnergy]

I guess its reducing to the lowest common denomiator.. we dont know how "handy" someone is or their familiarity with ohms law...
All that aside taking in all the products available at 1 level of vaping is crazy enough... let alone looking at 2...

I too am handy and electrically inclined - tearing apart rc cars as a child just to see how they worked - electrical science kits and the like as well - for 3 years in highschool i worked tech support for teachers and tore down and rebuilt machines.. i really enjoyed it.
All that said I still started on an ego because there was just SO much stuff to look at and that was the basic starter kit. I liked my ego - got me off cigs - but after awhile I wanted more - started tearing apart protank heads and rebuilding, got an APV, then a Kayfun and some crappy drippers. tore apart the crappy drippers to see what was going on in there and if I could fix it... even repaired my apv - then, after replacing it I tore it down to see what was going on in there.. lol
A year after starting I'm on mechs and full into RBAs. No more stock tanks in my house.

Again, others are fine with egos - My brother in law has been vaping egos for over a year and is still pretty satisfied. I passed him on my SiD at a discount and threw in some max 20amp batteries i dont use anymore this week, hopefully he likes it!
My other brother in law was off egos in 6 months, got an MVP2 then a Kayfun and wants to build better coils so is looking for a better mod "that he wont have to replace in 6 months because something better is out" I told him good luck! lol I'd have him get a mech if I wasnt almost certain that he would blow his hand off trying something crazy.

To each their own, but most that own them seem to be happy with the MVP for a good while, so that's why I recommend it.

thats my story and I'm sticking to it!
On an unrelated note, my tastebuds are fried again... to much juice sampling today :S Nothing brushing my teeth and a cup of coffee in the morning shouldn't cure!

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[tayone415]

I notice that most of the people who tells the new members who are inexperienced and in their post show no interest in getting in to advanced vaping, but just need a little extra boost that can be done with a VV 510 device and a dual coil tank, they often recommend to sub-ohm and go mechanical and get in to are mostly the members and full members. Maybe if ECF put restrictions on members not being able to post in the new members thread without having a certain amount of posts first, just as new members must post 5x to be allowed to post in other areas in the ECF forums.

 

[dopamine1]

Ok I'm a beginner in terms of how long I've been vaping. Like 2 months and about 1 month without a cigarette. I started with an evod starter kit, and today for the first time, I built a 0.51 ohm dual micro coil and fired it on a mech mod without a kick or fuse. And I still have all my fingers and teeth. Nothing bad happened. With that said.. I'm a pretty fast learner and I'm extremely careful by nature. I check for resistance and shorts with 3 different devices (multimeter, 510 ohm reader and an MVP), I test the battery voltage before and after every time I use it, I understand ohms law and what not to do to batteries etc. etc.

I agree that you should not recommend mechs to newbies. They probably won't be able to get it to do anything, but if they do, there's a decent chance it will turn out badly. Like I said I started with an evod. My mom and brother were interested so I gave my mom my evod kit and told my brother to buy an MVP and an aerotank. Those are good to start out with.

RBAs are a bit different than mech mods IMO. Yeah they are a bit more involved than just replacing an atomizer head. But if the person seems interested in rebuilding then it won't really hurt to recommend a kayfun. On a regulated mod it's pretty hard to do anything too dangerous. The worst thing that will realistically happen is the mod will refuse to fire because there's a short or the resistance is too low. Then there are the same problems that clearos will give you, dry hits, flooding, leaking. Those were actually the reason I started upgrading. I wasn't happy with the stock kanger heads constantly giving me dry hits and weak flavor and vapor. What I'm getting at... I could have started with a kayfun with no problem, and I would have saved money doing it. So, some people can do it, and it's not always a bad idea to recommend them.

 

[HecticEnergy]

Ok I'm a beginner in terms of how long I've been vaping. Like 2 months and about 1 month without a cigarette. I started with an evod starter kit, and today for the first time, I built a 0.51 ohm dual micro coil and fired it on a mech mod without a kick or fuse. And I still have all my fingers and teeth. Nothing bad happened. With that said.. I'm a pretty fast learner and I'm extremely careful by nature. I check for resistance and shorts with 3 different devices (multimeter, 510 ohm reader and an MVP), I test the battery voltage before and after every time I use it, I understand ohms law and what not to do to batteries etc. etc.

I agree that you should not recommend mechs to newbies. They probably won't be able to get it to do anything, but if they do, there's a decent chance it will turn out badly. Like I said I started with an evod. My mom and brother were interested so I gave my mom my evod kit and told my brother to buy an MVP and an aerotank. Those are good to start out with.

RBAs are a bit different than mech mods IMO. Yeah they are a bit more involved than just replacing an atomizer head. But if the person seems interested in rebuilding then it won't really hurt to recommend a kayfun. On a regulated mod it's pretty hard to do anything too dangerous. The worst thing that will realistically happen is the mod will refuse to fire because there's a short or the resistance is too low. Then there are the same problems that clearos will give you, dry hits, flooding, leaking. Those were actually the reason I started upgrading. I wasn't happy with the stock kanger heads constantly giving me dry hits and weak flavor and vapor. What I'm getting at... I could have started with a kayfun with no problem, and I would have saved money doing it. So, some people can do it, and it's not always a bad idea to recommend them.

I stay away from recommending RBA's to noobs mostly because of the learning curve. With a tank, there are a few things to adjust to get a better vape - is your coil dead? how is your airflow?

With RBA's it gets much more complicated... what is your resistance - what kind of wire are you using... did you wick it properly - not too much not too little - what is it sitting on... Oh, its not firing at all.. does it have an adjustable 510 connector? is it making contact?

once you have the basics down, a lot of that knowledge is transferable and takes some of the pain out of diagnosing the problem for them.

I dont disagree that some people can do it, but without meeting them and spending some time getting to know them and there level of "aptitude" its difficult. Most of the time you get a : "I'm new to vaping.. there is so much out there.. what do I need?" knowing nothing about vaping personally i think its much easier to start with a "lower" maintenance set up than jumping right into rbas.
I upgraded relatively quickly too, but I'm glad I started with clearos as I learned a lot from them. not having that knowledge of how to adjust my vape I would have spent a lot more time frustrated and searching for what I was doing wrong... I could have done it but i dont know about "no problem."
I try to make it an easy transition for them. You dont want their only tank to be a kayfun... when they run into problem with it they are going back to stinkies for the nic fix. or they get fed up and they figure vaping is not for them.
Lastly, like ive said, its just that many more products to look at. I think the majority of people stick with their ego/mvp setup a lot longer than those into RDA. We probably have more numbers on this forum, but as far as the masses goes... its just a better alternative, not a hobby

Just my 2cents. Tell you what, I'll post my recommendations, then you can follow up with "well.. there's always rebuildables..." lol

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[HecticEnergy]

I notice that most of the people who tells the new members who are inexperienced and in their post show no interest in getting in to advanced vaping, but just need a little extra boost that can be done with a VV 510 device and a dual coil tank, they often recommend to sub-ohm and go mechanical and get in to are mostly the members and full members. Maybe if ECF put restrictions on members not being able to post in the new members thread without having a certain amount of posts first, just as new members must post 5x to be allowed to post in other areas in the ECF forums.

this looks familiar


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[tayone415]

this looks familiar


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Yes, it's pretty similar.

 

[AzPlumber]

Maybe if ECF put restrictions on members not being able to post in the new members thread without having a certain amount of posts first

Wouldn't this exclude new members from posting in the new members forum. Even if you could somehow limit who posts in the new member forum, what would stop new members from giving "bad" advice in the new member forum.

 

[tayone415]

Wouldn't this exclude new members from posting in the new members forum. Even if you could somehow limit who posts in the new member forum, what would stop new members from giving "bad" advice in the new member forum.

Yes, it would I sometimes type faster than I think.

 

[nasca]

ego batteries can be dangerous, as well.

I say let people do as they please, but encourage them to install a fuse or a kick-type module if they must have that shiny, hip mech mod. most newbies do not even know these exist, so let's change that.

 

[Despraci]

Perusing the new member forum with people asking for help, it's quite often someone will recommend a Nemesis and a Kayfun to someone fresh at vaping. Like c'mon.

Mechs aren't meant for beginners. RBA's aren't meant for beginners.

Good regulated mod + clearomizer with replaceable coils seems the only viable starting point for someone flying solo. It's not a race, it's a marathon. Gotta compose yourself in the start and understand the journey before you jump to the end sprint :/

$0.2

I agree with this 100%. When I started vaping is didn't have that option, but even when returning to vaping I started with a nice VV/VW mod and a couple PTs. I learned to rebuild those and moved up from there. I think these are important steps all vapors should take unless you have somebody watching over your shoulder as you learn.

But I also hate when newbies try to pretend to know more then we all know is untrue and these facts are pointed out and people still recommend unsafe ideas.

 

[Cullin Kin]

Me too...but so far I have had a lot of cleaning to do...like...it is not the place to discuss your first RBA



edit :

Hopefully it can be the place to help people with what they have instead of just telling them to go buy something else...

Thank you for doing what you do! Truly.

 

[Susan~S]

Me too...but so far I have had a lot of cleaning to do...like...it is not the place to discuss your first RBA

edit : Hopefully it can be the place to help people with what they have instead of just telling them to go buy something else...

Any chance your phrase (underlined above) could be added to this post: Members: how to answer questions here?

I know this is not always possible, especially if a new user buys some generic, unknown battery that is old technology and will never really do the job. But when someone has a clearomizer that we all are familiar with and an ego battery we should be able to help them with common problems first. If the OP chooses to want to upgrade (and not deal with all the problems), then we could suggest options.

 

[Shootist]

Perusing the new member forum with people asking for help, it's quite often someone will recommend a Nemesis and a Kayfun to someone fresh at vaping. Like c'mon.

Mechs aren't meant for beginners. RBA's aren't meant for beginners.

Good regulated mod + clearomizer with replaceable coils seems the only viable starting point for someone flying solo. It's not a race, it's a marathon. Gotta compose yourself in the start and understand the journey before you jump to the end sprint :/

$0.2

I agree with your thoughts. I personally recommend cig a likes as a starting point. The reason behind that is it is more Like a Cigarette and could help them make the switch from the real thing to the E thing.

But after that a good VV or VW or VV+VW battery device and one of the better manufactured tank systems.

 

[imsoenthused]

I agree with your thoughts. I personally recommend cig a likes as a starting point. The reason behind that is it is more Like a Cigarette and could help them make the switch from the real thing to the E thing.

But after that a good VV or VW or VV+VW battery device and one of the better manufactured tank systems.

I'd honestly never recommend a mech to a new vaper, but I'd rather see them with one than wasting their time and money on a cigalike. Of all the people I've helped get started vaping, the ones who ignored my advice and got something smaller than an Ego universally went back to smoking. Some of them now loudly proclaim that they've tried e-cigs and "they don't work". No offense intended, but the idea of recommending a cigalike strikes me as just setting someone up for failure.

 

[Shootist]

I'd honestly never recommend a mech to a new vaper, but I'd rather see them with one than wasting their time and money on a cigalike. Of all the people I've helped get started vaping, the ones who ignored my advice and got something smaller than an Ego universally went back to smoking. Some of them now loudly proclaim that they've tried e-cigs and "they don't work". No offense intended, but the idea of recommending a cigalike strikes me as just setting someone up for failure.

It was not a waste of time or money for me. I still use Cig A Likes everyday along with a Provari, a iTaste VV V3, a couple of Vamo's and some eGo's.


Bottom line is whatever gets someone OFF Cigarettes is the thing to start with.

For me that had to be something that looked and felt like a cigarette. If I had to always push a button to get a vape I'd still be smoking.

Your opinion is just that, an opinion. There have been many thousands, if not millions, of smokers that have gotten off cigarettes with the Cig A Likes. To discount that fact is just foolish.

 

[tayone415]

I'd honestly never recommend a mech to a new vaper, but I'd rather see them with one than wasting their time and money on a cigalike. Of all the people I've helped get started vaping, the ones who ignored my advice and got something smaller than an Ego universally went back to smoking. Some of them now loudly proclaim that they've tried e-cigs and "they don't work". No offense intended, but the idea of recommending a cigalike strikes me as just setting someone up for failure.

Cig a likes work well for some people and don't work for others. For me cig a likes was a horrible fail I tried it with maybe 5+ kits and never made past 2 weeks before buying a pack. Having something that looks like a cigarette maybe helpful for some people to quit, but for me it just reminded me of how much it wasn't a cigarette and not the same. With vaping I struggled on and off but it after getting use to vaping and putting a distance between cigarettes from the new feel of holding a vape pen instead of a cigarette it became much easier.

I had a coworker who used blu e cigs and loved it and one day asked me about my vape pen and if I tried blu or anything similar and what I like better, I told him I tried them but I loved vaping and I feel more satisfied and it worked better for me. He took that as a recommendation that I told him to buy one. Short story he bought a vape pen, hated it and stuck with his blu e cigs.

 

[Loopy1224]

I agree with the OP as long as we define beginner a someone who jumps into mechs head first and asks questions later. There are people who have been vaping for years that are beginners in my book. The key to being safe is to know your equipment and Ohm's law and not ask it to do more than it can. Most of this is not very complicated and it really can be picked up pretty quickly. ECF is a great place to learn.

Just fyi i have been vaping for 5 months and got my first mech and dripper after a month or so