Can We Stop Recommending the Subtank/Atlantis to New Vapers Please? IT'S NOTHING LIKE A CIGARETTE

[DavidAmonettNashville]

There is a thread titled something like the Minion empire with a picture of a Minion cartoon character. What's the problem? It is a family oriented forum...

It was tongue in cheek(My comments)...but still it's a good practice to keep things on the safe side..

 

[DC2]

If I could have one wish, it would be as follows...

That no advice would be given until the following questions have been answered...
1) How long have you smoked?
2) How much are you smoking right now?
3) What brand are you smoking right now?
4) Are you open to the idea that larger devices would be more satisfying?
5) Are you open to the idea that different flavors might help you get away from cigarettes?

If we could just get those questions answered first, such threads could be more productive.

And yes, I know that they may/will change their priorities or even their idea of what they think they need.
But that is all part of getting them started and letting them develop on their own.

I guess it comes down to how productive it is to try and convince them that what they think they need may not be.
After all, that is the only reason such threads often reduce to arguments like we see in this thread.

I think trying to convince someone that they don't want what they think they want is usually not a good idea.
And I think it could very well confuse and frustrate more people than those who are "saved" by being convinced otherwise.


Okay, if I could have one wish it would be for world peace...
But yeah.

 

[TheJakeBailey]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BOOM.

This is also why i hardly ever actually make a gear recommendation to someone I don't personally know. If you have a questions about my experiences with a certain product, I'll gladly share. If you have a problem with something that I think I know how to solve, I'll share that too. Telling you what you should buy requires more of a personal investment.

 

[beckdg]

Just met a security guard at a Tennessee I-40 rest stop today.

Been vaping 2 weeks he said.

Picked his own gear out at a local b&m.

Atlantis and knock off istick that adjusts to 23W and has no branding.

He seemed to be doing just fine with no guidance at all.

ETA: Didn't even know his coil resistance. All he knew was filler up, screwer on, adjust vape with buttons and plugger in when she gets low.

17 watts seemed to work just fine for him.

Tapatyped

 

[supermarket]

Back in the day, the Kanger Protank or Evod, combined with an Ego twist battery, was what I recommended beginning vapers. The ego twist was a perfect beginner bat, because it has the best of both worlds. It is small, slim, and tiny tube shaped, cig shaped but a bit bigger.....and the kanger pro tank and evod are two different types of clearos, both great (at the time) in their own way.


Nowadays, I don't recommend a specific battery/mod anymore. I tell them to go to the vape shop, and get a feel for what they like. I DO however, make sure they get a variable voltage, instead of a mech mod, for their first.

I also recommend the nautilus mini. It doesn't have the massive airflow or low ohms like the atlantis, but it performs extremely well, and is designed for a beginner with no tinkering.

 

[Cavenerd]

Real clever post...Throwing around children's toy manufacturer names on an Electronic Cigarette forum has got to be a good idea with Google and all. Bravo!!

Are you kidding? I don't even know if this is a joke.

If not, does that mean the newly formed gov't agency, the FDBI (Food and Drug Bureau of Investigation) is right now building a case of "out-of-context mentions of things kids like" to take away our right to vape.

Also, this is a technical question for anyone:

When I build my tinfoil hat what minimum resistance should I be looking for? I wear a size 7 1/4 hat.

 

[stevegmu]

I think there will be a number of vendors who will have to change their businesses practices regarding marketing if regulations happen...I imagine using cartoon characters will be a no no...

 

[Cavenerd]

It was tongue in cheek...but still it's a good practice to keep things on the safe side....

It's been my experience that on threads like this, Where 42 people liked/agreed with the OP, There will be the hard-core obfuscators who will Vulturate the final few posts of the thread until no one else wants to participate..Like it or not the Sub-tank/Atlantis is still probably a poor choice for a newbies first device. The reasons have been stated numerous times. If I had tried a Sub-tank with its wide open draw I would have likely continued smoking. Recommend whatever you want to recommend but if you're suggesting these devices to smokers who prefer Mouth to lung inhaling you are doing them a great disservice I say all of this as I wape my STM @25watts so I'm not being a hater...I'm being a realist. Long gone are the days where Sub-ohmers were attacked and called subversives so stop being so sensitive and let the butthurt go.​

Absolutely agree, kinda.

You are saying that in your experience, you would not have liked the open draw of some of the newer tanks on the market. I don't think anyone is saying that's wrong. That's your opinion. But you, and the OP, seem to be intimating that going the oldest route around is the only option for new vapors.

I didn't like vaping very much until I learned what a lung-hit was and found the larger, more powerful world beyond cigalikes and eGos. Because my experience is different, you and the OP would relegate me back to the dark days (for me) of smoking and vaping. I quit smoking when I started using RDA's. I did't quit when I was using the lower power variants of the vape spectrum.

The truth is, whatever helps people stop smoking is the best option for them. It's okay to introduce n00bs to the lower end technology but why hide everything else? If they ask me how I quit should I tell them that I actually quit smoking using some higher power lower-ohm devices but because it's new technology they can only start with what existed 5 years ago? That's inane and does them the greatest disservice because at that point we've stopped treating them like rational decision making adults and treated them like dull children.

I feel like there's some "You kids and your fancy sub-ohms don't have any idea of what it used to be like," so any viewpoint that is not in accordance with THAT personal experience is not just different, but wrong. I think we can all agree with one thing the OP kind of said "It (vaping) is not like a cigarette". (<-- Taken out of context from OP's post, but still, I think, a valid point.)

Here's an idea: maybe the folks that really want to quit smoking won't get turned off on one bad experience, and if we see someone faltering we extend a helping hand to help them do what THEY want to do, not what WE think they should do.

Also, and this is a minor point, but I'll go back and check the forum rules to be sure, but I wasn't under the impression that the only reason we could "like" a post was by agreeing with the poster. I was one of the folks that liked the OP's first post, but I "liked" his post because I thought it might start some valuable discourse.

Should I go back and "unlike" it bc I disagree with his sentiment? Should I unlike yours because I disagree, it seems, with your thoughts?

 

[Cavenerd]

If I could have one wish, it would be as follows...

That no advice would be given until the following questions have been answered...
1) How long have you smoked?
2) How much are you smoking right now?
3) What brand are you smoking right now?
4) Are you open to the idea that larger devices would be more satisfying?
5) Are you open to the idea that different flavors might help you get away from cigarettes?

If we could just get those questions answered first, such threads could be more productive.

And yes, I know that they may/will change their priorities or even their idea of what they think they need.
But that is all part of getting them started and letting them develop on their own.

I guess it comes down to how productive it is to try and convince them that what they think they need may not be.
After all, that is the only reason such threads often reduce to arguments like we see in this thread.

I think trying to convince someone that they don't want what they think they want is usually not a good idea.
And I think it could very well confuse and frustrate more people than those who are "saved" by being convinced otherwise.


Okay, if I could have one wish it would be for world peace...
But yeah.

Great post.

 

[Cavenerd]

Just met a security guard at a Tennessee I-40 rest stop today.

Been vaping 2 weeks he said.

Picked his own gear out at a local b&m.

Atlantis and knock off istick that adjusts to 23W and has no branding.

He seemed to be doing just fine with no guidance at all.

ETA: Didn't even know his coil resistance. All he knew was filler up, screwer on, adjust vape with buttons and plugger in when she gets low.

17 watts seemed to work just fine for him.

Tapatyped

"I don't know who this guy is, and I don't know what he wants. What I do have is a very particular set of advice. Advice I have acquired over a very long bit of time reading this thread. Advice that make me a nightmare for people like him. If he let's the Atlantis go now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for him, I will not pursue him. But if he doesn't, I will look for him, I will find him and I will only allow him to vape at 7 watts."

Quote from "Vape Taken"

 

[Katya]

Here's an idea: maybe the folks that really want to quit smoking won't get turned off on one bad experience, and if we see someone faltering we extend a helping hand to help them do what THEY want to do, not what WE think they should do.

I think we all agree that we should recommend what the OP wants/thinks might work for him/her.

But there's one more variable, which I always consider when making recommendations to new vapers, and that's tobacco harm reduction. I believe that recommending the smallest and safest tool that will do the job is never a bad idea. We don't know yet what happens when we vape at very high temperatures and inhale huge amounts of vapor into our lungs 24/7. Dr. Farsalinos is looking into it as we speak and I eagerly await the results of this study.

E-cigarette research: temperature of evaporation


And while I wait, I don't think it's a good idea to tell new vapers that they need to start at 50 watts in order to be able to stop smoking. It may be true for some people, but it's certainly not true for all. Millions of us, tight-draw-low-wattage-tootle-puffers , have successfully quit smoking and have no desire to breathe fire or lung inhale huge amounts of vapor.

So, based on my experience, I always recommend a cautious approach--start low and see what happens. I also don't recommend Aspire BVC coils because I'm not convinced that using fiberglass wicks is a good idea. I don't recommend e-liquids containing diacetyl because it's an unnecessary and completely avoidable risk.

One can always get a more powerful device or a diacetyl-loaded custard juice if that's what it takes. We have choices.

 

[beckdg]

I think we all agree that we should recommend what the OP wants/thinks might work for him/her.

But there's one more variable, which I always consider when making recommendations to new vapers, and that's tobacco harm reduction. I believe that recommending the smallest and safest tool that will do the job is never a bad idea. We don't know yet what happens when we vape at very high temperatures and inhale huge amounts of vapor into our lungs 24/7. Dr. Farsalinos is looking into it as we speak and I eagerly await the results of this study.

E-cigarette research: temperature of evaporation


And while I wait, I don't think it's a good idea to tell new vapers that they need to start at 50 watts in order to be able to stop smoking. It may be true for some people, but it's certainly not true for all. Millions of us, tight-draw-low-wattage-tootle-puffers , have successfully quit smoking and have no desire to breathe fire or lung inhale huge amounts of vapor.

So, based on my experience, I always recommend a cautious approach--start low and see what happens. I also don't recommend Aspire BVC coils because I'm not convinced that using fiberglass wicks is a good idea. I don't recommend e-liquids containing diacetyl because it's an unnecessary and completely avoidable risk.

One can always get a more powerful device or a diacetyl-loaded custard juice if that's what it takes. We have choices.

Katya
Darling
PLEASE

Help me remove the misconception of "very high temperatures".

I like this post very much. But that phrase is something of a thorn in my eye.

I vape @ ~80W.

But at a lower temp than a protank set at 8W.

High watt does not equal more temp.

Think of a high ohm coil vs a sub ohm coil as an oven vs a house. With the oven door closed you can cook food extra crispy with the flame cycling on and off... mostly off. With the door open you Might be able to Warm your house with the flame constantly on.

The size of my coils and air flow puts me at warming a house @ 80 watts. The size of a Carto or protank coil... and the airflow... puts the user at instant cooked...

Tapatyped

 

[Rossum]

Sure, but 80 watts done wrong gets you into the danger zone a lot faster and deeper than 8 watts done wrong. Now anyone who's been vaping for a while knows when his juice is getting fried, but someone just starting out probably doesn't.

 

[beckdg]

Sure, but 80 watts done wrong gets you into the danger zone a lot faster and deeper than 8 watts done wrong. Now anyone who's been vaping for a while knows when his juice is getting fried, but someone just starting out probably doesn't.

Dunno

Even Victor learns pretty quick

Ecig Market Most Powerful BOX MOD-Vicious ant Variant Newest Version 260...: http://youtu.be/f_TrA9NN-6Y



Tapatyped

 

[The Cloud Minder]

So we all agree, 0.1 quad coil builds on a stacked batteries from Kmart, in a Mech Mod is standard for beginners, ... right?

 

[LMS62]

So we all agree, 0.1 quad coil builds on a stacked batteries from Kmart, in a Mech Mod is standard for beginners, ... right?

I think the stacked batteries from K-Mart should be fine.....provided of course they are authentic K-Mart batteries.

 

[The Cloud Minder]

I think the stacked batteries from K-Mart should be fine.....provided of course they are authentic K-Mart batteries.

I hate those S-Mart batteries re-wrapped as genuine K-Mart.

 

[The Joel Train]

I haven't tried any vaping device like a cigarette. Even cigalikes, the look is the only thing that resembles it. In order for me to switch from analogs to vape was to just vape for a month then I no longer wanted an analog at all I couldn't finish one. I was recommended a subtank for an aerotank upgrade and for me it's phenomenal. Once I used the subtank it changed how I vape I used to just vape high pg menthols and tobaccos. Now I am going higher VG and loving flavors I finally understand what all the custard fuss is about.

 

[AndriaD]

I really wish I never bought an eGo and really feel like I wasted my money in the beginning. Even when I bought my MVP 2 a couple weeks later, I feel that was a waste as well considering its limitations. It served me very well for a few weeks until I outgrew it and even my Nautilus tanks didn't perform very well on it. On the rare occasion that I use it, it's with either the included iClear or a little Kanger eVod tank I have. I'm not trying to bash it since it was a good device by 2013 standards but this day on age, any vapor who isn't living under a rock would quickly outgrow it.

Had I just bought a good box to begin with, I would have saved myself a good $100 even if I wasn't yet using it to its potential.

I think at the very minimum, I would recommend a 30w regulated mod. As long as you aren't using some shady Chinese battery, you should have very few safety concerns. The price of something like an iPV Mini is very comparable to these standard mods that people think newbies should be using and even if you never use a Sub-Tank or an RDA, who cares. Just because the device is capable, it doesn't mean you have to use it. For you got yourself a nice, well constructed device for around $50. I By the time you buy an eGo that isn't some cheap piece of crap, you will spend about the same. Hell. Halos Triton system costs $65.

If I had it to do all over again tbough I would have just bought a 100 or 150 watt device from the start. While I'll probably never use even close to those watts, I would be more appreciative of the battery life then I am with my iPV2S which I paid more for then I could have got a 100w Sigelei. We have this perception not to buy any greater then we think we will use. But what I failed to do in that decision was take into account the battery life of a mod that only uses a single 18650.

And it's best to ignore Steve. The guy likes to argue just for the sake of debate. I took the bait yesterday and really wish I hadn't.

I agree 100% with your last sentence; the "ignore" went into effect some weeks ago. But for the rest... not every vaper who vapes at lower than 15w is "living under a rock" -- some of us just don't need that kind of power for the kind of vape we prefer, and I know it's not just me; there are quite a few lower-watt vapers around here.

But here's something I've been wondering about, since the prices on 30w mods are rapidly coming down. If a mod is capable of that kind of power, but one only vapes <15w... does the battery last longer? That's one extremely valid reason why I might consider a 30w mod, though I've never yet found a reason or need to go over 13.5w.

Andria

 

[Oberon75]

So we all agree, 0.1 quad coil builds on a stacked batteries from Kmart, in a Mech Mod is standard for beginners, ... right?

I wouldn't recommend a mech to any beginner and even as an intermediate vapor, I still won't touch them even with good batteries.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition