Can we trust the Bible?

[HyOnLyph]

I believe that most Christians while espousing the "Jesus to God" path are actually following a "Bible to Jesus to God" path. By demanding that the Bible be the infallible Word of God ( keyword infallible with capitalized Word of God ), it is elevated to a place of such importance that many modern Christians mistake the Bible FOR God. I have come across many examples in my personal experience of exclusionary behavior from Christians where they justify their actions in the Bible rather than the spirit of the Bible itself. In my opinion, these people have replaced a direct relationship with God with a direct relationship with the book.

Additionally, by presenting the book as infallible and as God's Law, we, as Christians, are ignoring the fact that we do not read the original text. the most commonly accepted English translation is the King James version. It is this version more than any other English translation that people read. If it is true that the Bible is our pathway to God, then that pathway has been decided by 17th century scholars who translated the Bible with an intent to translate in such a way as to please a worldly king ( namely King James ). Yet, we, as Christians, cling to the rhetoric of "infallible Word of God" or "God's Law" when, in fact, we can prove that there was a decidedly protestant slant to the translation, although some of the Pre-Protestant was allowed to survive in the King James version ( Jeremiah 17:10, for example ). It is this argument that the majority of non-believers fall back to most often. They see the fallacy of "God's Word" when a simple browse of any bookstore can show that the "Word" has changed over time and translation.

By clinging to our false premise, that the Bible is infallible and law, we are not only missing the spirit of the text and alienating non-believers who could come to Christ if not for the blatant illogical stance of his followers but we also break God's first commandment...


...by placing the book on the pathway to God.

I know what the response will be," But I dont do that" Or " Thats not what we are doing" but it is! Thats the scary part. Every time someone quotes the book instead of opening their heart and arms, they place the book before God. Every time they look to God for an answer and open the book instead of speaking to God, they place the book first. It is part of our Christian culture. "How do I find out about God?" I asked as a teen. My preacher responded," Read your Bible" When I went to school ( after high school ) to study to be a minister, Read Your Bible. We conduct Bible Studies every week. Theres a Bible Study thread thats been stickied at the top of the forum. We look to the BIBLE before we look to God.

The very book we cling to tells us to cast it aside. It tells us the kingdom of Heaven is found within. It tells us to place nothing between us and God. It tells us what we need to know to begin to have a REAL relationship with a LIVING BEING, yet we study the old dusty history book looking for what God said, instead of what God SAYS.

I do, too. Which is why we are having this discussion.

Why didn't you just state that in the beginning instead of attacking and stealthing around with argumentative postulations. It would have been so much easier to have a discussion if you had simply stated your position instead of attacking or arguing against others. Trying to disprove the Bible is way different than stating that you are concerned that Christians are replacing the Bible with relationship with God. Much of what you say is really valid.

Whether or not one believes the Bible to be the Word of God, are you suggesting that it be ignored compeletly? Are you suggesting that it is not inspired and something of great value to point us toward relationship with God through Christ?

No thats a black and white all or nothing argument and its flawed IF the Bible is meant as a guide to find a relationship directly with God, to be set aside only once that relationship has been firmly established. ( also see my post above for a more complete description of my argument )

You see, in your second post above, it kind of sounds that way. So I'll ask again... are you stating that the Bible isn't even to be considered as a guide as to who Christ is and how to come into relationship with God? Are you saying that after one is "in" relationship with God, the Bible should then be discarded? Or perhaps you stating that once one is a "mature" or "firm" Christian (re: relationship with God) that the Bible is no longer of much value? Would you mind clarifying?

 

[HyOnLyph]

Lisa, its the first commandment Ive said it twice already.
Im done. This is ridiculous. I tried to have a conversation and you folks go into ENEMY IN THE FENCE mode.
I AM A CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amazing how you treat fellow believers. No wonder you're ridiculed outside of this forum.
You win. I throw my hands up in disgust.

While I can understand your frustration, to throw your hands up in disgust is a pretty immature way to handle it. IF you are in relationship with God and have such a personal relationship that you believe you know and walk in his nature (as much and as often as possible) then might I suggest that you take a different position. The "no wonder you are ridiculed" statement is pretty childish and just lashing out.

I think I am beginning to understand what you are saying. And I certainly understand your concern. I myself have spoken the same concerns (sort of) in other threads within this group. It is a fine line between worshipping the creation rather than the Creator. However, isn't it possible that your method of challenging us, was so disconcerting and of such a nature as to set off a bit of a reaction? I have to say that it is kind of immature to take your position and then to assume that people don't get it because of our rebellious nature and refusal to listen. Isn't it possible that your attack solicited the very response that you were expecting and/or afraid of?

From my perspective as one who did not enter into the "God's Word" arguement, I would say that in your attempt to bring some truth to the subject, you took a posture that assumed we would brand you as a heretic. Had you simply stated your views, you may or may not have gotten that reaction... but at least it would have been us attacking rather than you. Just an observation.

I'm certainly open to continuing the discussion of your position IF you can find a way to tone down the attack. The people here are rarely judgmental and whatever you've "heard" from the outside, is probably not accurate. But it appears you came in here with preconcieved ideas about how you would be treated and, in a sense, fulfilled your own prophecy. Take a breath... try again... and see if love can prevail.

 

[lmrasch]

While I agree that relationship is where the bear meets the buckwheat, I cannot nor will I deny that I believe the Bible is totally inspired by God. Many have attested to the fact that until they became Christians, i.e. asking Christ into their hearts, they could not grasp what the words in the Bible even meant...it was a bunch of hooey! Once they entered into relationship, the words leapt out fo the page to them. Why? Because the veil was removed from their eyes...this is how it has been for me. The words in the Bible are alive, because Christ is alive and the Spirit bears witness with mine that the words are TRUE!

I am constantly amazed at how alive the WORD of GOD is to me, how much my spirit rejoices in the WORD. What make the words in the Bible alive is the WORD of God, who is Jesus. This is my experience, not conjecture...the Bible is not Jesus, it is a book with words printed in ink on paper. But when we come to know Jesus, these words come ALIVE!

I have had God speak directly to me in dreams, wrote those words down and found them, exactly as stated in the Bible. So...can God speak to us the same words that the Bible has printed in them? YES! It has happened to me! I know this to be a truth.

There have been times when there has been teaching form the Bible that did not bear witness to my spirit....but at the time I could not dispute what was being taught because I did not have knowledge at the time to dispute it, just knew that what was being stated grieved me deeply. Years later, the same words being taught by man I now have a completely different understanding of and am grateful I did not allow that teaching to be absorbed into my spirit, nor did I put it into practice. We must always trust the Holy Spirit within us, if we are troubled by an interpretation, ask God and trust He will give you wisdom...HE WILL! Just don't move in a direction that grieves your spirit while you're waiting for an answer.

We see through a glass darkly is in scripture...this is true. But God can and will reveal truth to us if we continue to seek.

These words, printed on paper, inspire us to know the Living Word and for that I am eternally grateful for the Bible.

So, all that to say this...the Bible is the Word of God to me because Jesus is alive in the pages....for me it started with faith like a grain of a mustard seed.

 

[Southern Gent]

The Bible is given for us to internalize. If it were not, how could we "inside" know truth? We could not. Is it written on the heart? Yes, if you internalize the words.

 

[HyOnLyph]

The Bible is given for us to internalize. If it were not, how could we "inside" know truth? We could not. Is it written on the heart? Yes, if you internalize the words.

I hear you! I have a question. Are we really willing to trust what scripture says? The Bible tells us what it is for. And it also tells us where Truth comes from. To my knowledge, scripture doesn't say that Truth comes from the Bible. It says that Truth comes from the Holy Spirit. That, IMO, would be relationship.

To some degree, MrGrimme has a valid point. It is human nature to want everything in a box wrapped with a bow. Frequently our mind tells us, "Don't tell me I can work all of this out through relationship. That's too messy. Tell me the rules. What do I have to do to get to God and ultimately get to heaven. I'll follow the rules and be happy with it. I'll make my judgments based on the rules."

But God says (paraphrased of course) "you can't follow the rules, and they wouldn't make you happy even if you did. You want and need relationship with me. I know you think it's messy and less secure, but security is in relationship not rules. You need to be secure in my love for you. Rules don't do that for you. Come to me."

We seem to always want to go back to the law. We seem to find counterfeit safety / security in rules. But it isn't there. It's only in relationship. And the Truth about God's nature and heart toward us is cemented in our hearts through relationship.

Am I just getting caught up in semantics?

 

[Southern Gent]

I hear you! I have a question. Are we really willing to trust what scripture says? The Bible tells us what it is for. And it also tells us where Truth comes from. To my knowledge, scripture doesn't say that Truth comes from the Bible. It says that Truth comes from the Holy Spirit. That, IMO, would be relationship.

To some degree, MrGrimme has a valid point. It is human nature to want everything in a box wrapped with a bow. Frequently our mind tells us, "Don't tell me I can work all of this out through relationship. That's too messy. Tell me the rules. What do I have to do to get to God and ultimately get to heaven. I'll follow the rules and be happy with it. I'll make my judgments based on the rules."

But God says (paraphrased of course) "you can't follow the rules, and they wouldn't make you happy even if you did. You want and need relationship with me. I know you think it's messy and less secure, but security is in relationship not rules. You need to be secure in my love for you. Rules don't do that for you. Come to me."

We seem to always want to go back to the law. We seem to find counterfeit safety / security in rules. But it isn't there. It's only in relationship. And the Truth about God's nature and heart toward us is cemented in our hearts through relationship.

Am I just getting caught up in semantics?

People "want" to be told what to do. People "want" to be told what is right or wrong. People "want" to have their faith wrapped up in a nice little package to pick up and lay aside as they choose. This is nothing more than a cop out. People don't want to be responsible for living free, moral lives that the NT teaches.

Yes, God tried the rules bit but it didn't work so well. The rules were not bad but they sure were abused.

 

[HyOnLyph]

People "want" to be told what to do. People "want" to be told what is right or wrong. People "want" to have their faith wrapped up in a nice little package to pick up and lay aside as they choose. This is nothing more than a cop out. People don't want to be responsible for living free, moral lives that the NT teaches.

Yes, God tried the rules bit but it didn't work so well. The rules were not bad but they sure were abused.

They THINK they want.... but when they get .... they rebel against.



edit.... I say "they" but I mean "we".

 

[Southern Gent]

They THINK they want.... but when they get .... they rebel against.

Pretty common reaction I'd say.

 

[blondeambition3]

I hear you! I have a question. Are we really willing to trust what scripture says? The Bible tells us what it is for. And it also tells us where Truth comes from. To my knowledge, scripture doesn't say that Truth comes from the Bible. It says that Truth comes from the Holy Spirit. That, IMO, would be relationship.

To some degree, MrGrimme has a valid point. It is human nature to want everything in a box wrapped with a bow. Frequently our mind tells us, "Don't tell me I can work all of this out through relationship. That's too messy. Tell me the rules. What do I have to do to get to God and ultimately get to heaven. I'll follow the rules and be happy with it. I'll make my judgments based on the rules."

But God says (paraphrased of course) "you can't follow the rules, and they wouldn't make you happy even if you did. You want and need relationship with me. I know you think it's messy and less secure, but security is in relationship not rules. You need to be secure in my love for you. Rules don't do that for you. Come to me."

We seem to always want to go back to the law. We seem to find counterfeit safety / security in rules. But it isn't there. It's only in relationship. And the Truth about God's nature and heart toward us is cemented in our hearts through relationship.

Human relationships are messy. (Note that you used a word that describes 'action' emotions and feelings?.. 'messy'. Our relationship with GOD is not easy, because we're messy... not because He is. Remember, His 'word' says "For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD." - Isaiah 55:8

I agree we should be 'led' by the Holy Spirit (relationship based first and foremost)... but without the word there can be no active ongoing relationship as Faith grows by hearing the word - "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the 'word' of God" - - Romans 10:17... (the 'word' will keep us firmly established in the ongoing relationship because it helps build our Faith and not based on what we 'actively' do or even 'feel' as feelings do not change GOD or His word.. just us). God also says outside of Faith we can't please Him.

It took the 'word' and the knowledge of God's laws, the revelation of His perfect character, the account of Christ being crucified on the cross for those sins... all of these 'words' of God were required that led us into the 'faith based' relationship. Without the 'word' there can be no relationship.... Christ 'is' the living word but without the written word no one would be 'aware' of this... and we would never have known about the Gospel or Faith... there is no relationship without the word.

I believe (in these last days) a type of WAR is being declared on the Bible and rightfully so as the Bible states: " For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." - Hebrews 4:12 and in Romans :8 - "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. .."

These are powerful messages that I don't think would be 'revealed' so quickly if we just relied solely on our 'relationship' because many of us (most of us, some of us) just don't possess the discipline to continue steadfast in the relationship. This is where the 'word' keeps us anchored and on solid ground. Not relying on emotions or feelings which can mislead. It's our moral barometer and compass... You guys 'know' what I mean....

If we error however, it should always be on the side of 'love'... as 'Love covers a multitude of Sins'.....

Proverbs 10:12 - Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.

Proverbs 17:9 - He who covers over an offense promotes love, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends. (Don't gossip or repeat negative information about your family, friends, neighbors)

1 Corinthians 13:4 - Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

James 5:20 - remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. Without the 'word'... how would we receive the wisdom and/or instruction necessary to do this?

1 Peter 1:22 - Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth (does not this truth come also by the word?) so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.

There are so many 'voices' right now pulling at us from every direction... The only voice we 'need' to hear is Christ's... and I firmly believe that his 'word' will always keep us in position and our faith strong so that our relationship (in Him) never wavers, even when our minds, bodies and hearts may.

 

[HyOnLyph]

You betcha... it's people that make relationship "messy", not God. It's messy from our perspective....God is probably wondering what we are so stressed about.

Not to argue whether or not the Bible is the Word of God.... But it needs to be said ... the scriptures tell us what the Word "does" ... but it doesn't tell us that the Bible IS the Word. It DOES tell us that Jesus is the Word and that the Word was with us from the beginning (before creation... before the Bible was ever written) and will be/is written on our hearts after his crucifixion. (possibly a reference to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit)

Is it possible that the Word comes by revelation? By speaking? By the Spirit who "leads us into all truth"? I don't think I agree that the Bible is "required" for the Word to be spread. Useful? Absolutely! Required? I don't think so! I don't think I'm detracting from the importance of scripture. It is inspired and powerful. But the "two edged sword" is not defined in scripture as the Bible. It is the Word. (If it was the Bible, then there would be no misinterpretation of scripture because the power would be in the Bible. But people have misued and misunderstood the Bible for thousands of years.) Isn't it possible that the Word is in the revelation?? Christ in us?

The Bible is awesome and definitely good for what it says it does. I just understand (kind of) what MrGrimmes was saying about how we tend to put our faith in our understanding of the Bible, rather than God who created it. Not everyone does it.... and most people really get the "relationship".... but some folks are more secure in their knowledge than in their God. It is something to be aware of.

 

[blondeambition3]

You betcha... it's people that make relationship "messy", not God. It's messy from our perspective....God is probably wondering what we are so stressed about.

Not to argue whether or not the Bible is the Word of God.... But it needs to be said ... the scriptures tell us what the Word "does" ... but it doesn't tell us that the Bible IS the Word. It DOES tell us that Jesus is the Word and that the Word was with us from the beginning (before creation... before the Bible was ever written) and will be/is written on our hearts after his crucifixion.

Is it possible that the Word comes by revelation? By speaking? By the Spirit who "leads us into all truth"? I don't think I agree that the Bible is "required" for the Word to be spread. Useful? Absolutely! Required? I don't think so! I don't think I'm detracting from the importance of scripture. It is inspired and powerful. But the "two edged sword" is not defined in scripture as the Bible. It is the Word. (If it was the Bible, then there would be no misinterpretation of scripture because the power would be in the Bible. But people have misued and misunderstood the Bible for thousands of years.) Isn't it possible that the Word is in the revelation?? Christ in us?

The Bible is awesome and definitely good for what it says it does. I just understand (kind of) what MrGrimmes was saying about how we tend to put our faith in our understanding of the Bible, rather than God who created it. Not everyone does it.... and most people really get the "relationship".... but some folks are more secure in their knowledge than in their God. It is something to be aware of. Amen to that Brother!

Hy, you're a very intelligent person... I perceive with my limited understanding (and I can admit this!.. lol) 'some' people (as some are more intelligent, intellectual and enlightened than others) that the 'word' is less necessary as 'relationship' is so strong due to their enlightenment and faith. I can't measure faith as God measures faith (or metes it for that matter)... so I can definitely 'see' what you mean and I think your message is a very valid one. There's just one 'other' reason I (personally) rely on the Word so heavily, and that's because without it I wouldn't be made so acutely aware of the spiritual war we're in and our 'need' to 'speak those words' that are my sword, my helmet, my breastplate and my salvation. Christ Himself (who I don't argue is the living word!) 'used' the Word to rebuke Satan in the Wilderness and to cast out demons. IF Christ 'be' the Word and 'is' the Word, 'why' did He still 'speak' the Word? I believe it's because (especially in these last days) those 'words' (as well as our relationship with Christ) that will empower us to cast out Devils and 'win' this Battle being waged in the Spiritual realm and Heaven. The Devil is alive... "I" (personally) require the 'word' to keep me grounded and protected. Know what I mean?

 

[blondeambition3]

Hy, you're a very intelligent person... I perceive with my limited understanding (and I can admit this!.. lol) 'some' people (as some are more intelligent, intellectual and enlightened than others) that the 'word' is less necessary as 'relationship' is so strong due to their enlightenment and faith. I can't measure faith as God measures faith (or metes it for that matter)... so I can definitely 'see' what you mean and I think your message is a very valid one. There's just one 'other' reason I (personally) rely on the Word so heavily, and that's because without it I wouldn't be made so acutely aware of the spiritual war we're in and our 'need' to 'speak those words' that are my sword, my helmet, my breastplate and my salvation. Christ Himself (who I don't argue is the living word!) 'used' the Word to rebuke Satan in the Wilderness and to cast out demons. IF Christ 'be' the Word and 'is' the Word, 'why' did He still 'speak' the Word? I believe it's because (especially in these last days) those 'words' (as well as our relationship with Christ) that will empower us to cast out Devils and 'win' this Battle being waged in the Spiritual realm and Heaven. The Devil is alive... "I" (personally) require the 'word' to keep me grounded and protected. Know what I mean?

I sure respect your opinion and your views on things... this definitely made me 'think' and re-think about how important it is to put our emphasis on relationship above 'religion'... for sure!

 

[lmrasch]

Christ Himself (who I don't argue is the living word!) 'used' the Word to rebuke Satan in the Wilderness and to cast out demons. IF Christ 'be' the Word and 'is' the Word, 'why' did He still 'speak' the Word?

This is a great point Blonde....Jesus used words that were written and stood his ground against the temptations of Satan. He could have spoken any words, he IS the Word. However, he used words that were "written"....

But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"

Satan even used what was written to tempt Jesus:
Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple,
and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,
'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU';
and
'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP,
SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'"

Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"

 

[HyOnLyph]

Hy, you're a very intelligent person... I perceive with my limited understanding (and I can admit this!.. lol) 'some' people (as some are more intelligent, intellectual and enlightened than others) that the 'word' is less necessary as 'relationship' is so strong due to their enlightenment and faith. I can't measure faith as God measures faith (or metes it for that matter)... so I can definitely 'see' what you mean and I think your message is a very valid one. There's just one 'other' reason I (personally) rely on the Word so heavily, and that's because without it I wouldn't be made so acutely aware of the spiritual war we're in and our 'need' to 'speak those words' that are my sword, my helmet, my breastplate and my salvation. Christ Himself (who I don't argue is the living word!) 'used' the Word to rebuke Satan in the Wilderness and to cast out demons. IF Christ 'be' the Word and 'is' the Word, 'why' did He still 'speak' the Word? I believe it's because (especially in these last days) those 'words' (as well as our relationship with Christ) that will empower us to cast out Devils and 'win' this Battle being waged in the Spiritual realm and Heaven. The Devil is alive... "I" (personally) require the 'word' to keep me grounded and protected. Know what I mean?

Not intelligent... just old.

I hope I didn't give the impression that the Bible was less necessary or important to one than to another. I didn't mean to say that or imply it. I am finding new things daily either in my reading or in my rememberance of something that I read before. I really value the Bible. It's just that there seems to be a movement within Christianity to focus on the rules of the Bible and the judgments of others based on the letter of the Bible (as they understand it) rather than on loving relationship with God and thus with others too. Consider this, every place in the Bible, where it says " the Word" instead of relating that to the Bible, relatie it to your personal relationship with Jesus. Does that make any difference for you? It does for me. It puts my attention on the heart of God rather than the letter of the Bible. And while the Bible is still true, it points me toward God through Jesus.

It isn't that, "to a more enlightened person", the Word is less necessary than relationship, that would be arogant of me to imply it. My point is that the Bible points us to the Word who is Christ. The Word IS relationship. Intelligence or enlightenment has nothing to do with it. It all points us to Jesus who takes us by the hand invites us into the throne room.

My only sensitivity is calling the Bible, the Word. The Bible never says that about itself. I don't know one way or the other. But it seems to put us in a position that detracts from the Person of Jesus Christ. It seems to me, that if we call something other than Christ, the Word, we are in potential danger of "worshiping the creation". It does not de-value the Bible. But it does prevent us from de-valuing Christ.

I don't think you are in danger of being one of those. You seem to value your relationship with Him very much.

Please forgive me if I gave a different impression. I am so sorry if it felt that way.


edited for clarity and to fix a few typos.

 

[lmrasch]

Not intelligent... just old.

I hope I didn't give the impression that the Bible was less necessary or important to one than to another. I didn't mean to say that or imply it. I am finding new things daily either in my reading or in my rememberance of something that I read before. I really value the Bible. It's just that there seems to be a movement within Christianity to focus on the rules of the Bible and the judgments of others based the letter of the Bible rather than on relationship with God. I don't think you in danger of being one of those. You seem to value your relationship with Him very much.

Please forgive me if I gave a different impression. I am so sorry.

Hy...don't underestimate the insightful gift that God has given you...it has ministered to me often in this forum.

I totally get where you're coming from, owning a Bible doesn't make anybody have a relationship with God...it in and of itself isn't holy. It's the relationship with the One it introduces us to that is Holy!
One night 30+ years back, my husband, being stoned out of his gourd, happened to crack open a GINORMOUS Bible that was given to us on our wedding. He started reading Revelations and entered into a relationship with the Living Word! I remember him coming to bed in the wee hours of the morning, the bed shaking and him waking me up saying that he just met Jesus! I said, "honey, you're just high....go to sleep." Sleep didn't change what happened that night, but the encounter he had with the Living God changed my husband forever.

 

[blondeambition3]

Not intelligent... just old.

I hope I didn't give the impression that the Bible was less necessary or important to one than to another. I didn't mean to say that or imply it. I am finding new things daily either in my reading or in my rememberance of something that I read before. I really value the Bible. It's just that there seems to be a movement within Christianity to focus on the rules of the Bible and the judgments of others based on the letter of the Bible (as they understand it) rather than on loving relationship with God and thus with others too. Consider this, every place in the Bible, where it says " the Word" instead of relating that to the Bible, relatie it to your personal relationship with Jesus. Does that make any difference for you? It does for me. It puts my attention on the heart of God rather than the letter of the Bible. And while the Bible is still true, it points me toward God through Jesus.

It isn't that, "to a more enlightened person", the Word is less necessary than relationship, that would be arogant of me to imply it. My point is that the Bible points us to the Word who is Christ. The Word IS relationship. Intelligence or enlightenment has nothing to do with it. It all points us to Jesus who takes us by the hand invites us into the throne room.

My only sensitivity is calling the Bible, the Word. The Bible never says that about itself. I don't know one way or the other. But it seems to put us in a position that detracts from the Person of Jesus Christ. It seems to me, that if we call something other than Christ, the Word, we are in potential danger of "worshiping the creation". It does not de-value the Bible. But it does prevent us from de-valuing Christ.

I don't think you are in danger of being one of those. You seem to value your relationship with Him very much.

Please forgive me if I gave a different impression. I am so sorry if it felt that way.


edited for clarity and to fix a few typos.

OH no Hy! Please don't apologize! I understand you completely and so totally agree with you!
So many times we, (and I own this from time to time... lol...high & mighty) Christians don't walk in 'love' as we should.. but in defense of 'myself'.. and the operative word here is "myself as in me".. lol... sometimes, I 'think, perceive or suspect that I'm dealing with the 'enemy' (as in Devil or Demons) .. as opposed to Sinners looking for Salvation... and then I use God's 'words' as opposed to 'mine'... because mine don't matter and I have to 'decrease' in order for Him to 'increase'.... It's a stratagem I use to keep the 'flesh' down and to keep 'me' in check.
I'm with Imrasch on this Hy! I love reading, am constantly inspired by and so value your posts and the Holy Spirit just shines in you and you didn't give me a different impression as to what you're conveying... because of your explanations I can 'see' the danger of making the 'word' an Idol if we don't temper it with 'relationship"....

 

[blondeambition3]

One night 30+ years back, my husband, being stoned out of his gourd, happened to crack open a GINORMOUS Bible that was given to us on our wedding. He started reading Revelations and entered into a relationship with the Living Word! I remember him coming to bed in the wee hours of the morning, the bed shaking and him waking me up saying that he just met Jesus! I said, "honey, you're just high....go to sleep." Sleep didn't change what happened that night, but the encounter he had with the Living God changed my husband forever.

Now THAT'S a Testimony!!!!!

 

[HyOnLyph]

Hy...don't underestimate the insightful gift that God has given you...it has ministered to me often in this forum.

I totally get where you're coming from, owning a Bible doesn't make anybody have a relationship with God...it in and of itself isn't holy. It's the relationship with the One it introduces us to that is Holy!
One night 30+ years back, my husband, being stoned out of his gourd, happened to crack open a GINORMOUS Bible that was given to us on our wedding. He started reading Revelations and entered into a relationship with the Living Word! I remember him coming to bed in the wee hours of the morning, the bed shaking and him waking me up saying that he just met Jesus! I said, "honey, you're just high....go to sleep." Sleep didn't change what happened that night, but the encounter he had with the Living God changed my husband forever.

I really love that story.... "Honey, you're just high....go to sleep "

I had a lot of people say to me .... "oh you'll get over this Jesus Freak thing... it's just a phase"
Yeah ... a phase that lasts for all eternity.

 

[blondeambition3]

I really love that story.... "Honey, you're just high....go to sleep "

I had a lot of people say to me .... "oh you'll get over this Jesus Freak thing... it's just a phase"
Yeah ... a phase that lasts for all eternity.

Yeah buddy! Hallelujah!!!!

 

[blondeambition3]

I had a lot of people say to me .... "oh you'll get over this Jesus Freak thing... it's just a phase"
Yeah ... a phase that lasts for all eternity.

To me, 'Jesus Freak' is the highest of compliments.....