Actually, is it possible that in that verse, the formation of a single organized Christian religion became heretical.
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Can we trust the Bible?
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Actually, is it possible that in that verse, the formation of a single organized Christian religion became heretical.
I do know Greek and Hebrew. I'd like to see a discrepancy between the original texts and the translations that is a salvation issue.
Grim, What is it that you really want to know? Do you have a question that you will accept an answer to or is it just loaded so as to refute Christian beliefs? You realise that you have stumbled into the Christian forum, I suggest that you read this sub forums rules before continuing too much further.
Josh 1:7-8
7 "Only be strong and very courageous; be careful to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, so that you may have success wherever you go.
8 "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success.
NASU
Men of God moved by the Holy Spirit wrote for the training up of the followers of God.
7 "Only be strong and very courageous; be careful to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, so that you may have success wherever you go.
8 "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success.
NASU
Men of God moved by the Holy Spirit wrote for the training up of the followers of God.
hehehe.... first, yes I have seen the Bible in it's original translation. I have seen Hebrew scrolls of the OT. I have not seen ALL of the New and Old Testament Bible in it's original text. That would be silly since in it's original form the NT was a compilation of testimonies and letters. Who knows if there ever was a time when all of the original testimonies and letters were in one place at one time... that would be a question for a greater scholar.
If your position is that none of us has opened the Ark of the Covenant and seen the actual original tablets with the 10 Commandments written on them, therefore we cannot tell that what we have is the "real translation"?? Well, I guess that is even more argumentative than I thought.
second, you assume too much. You seem to think I'm getting involved with the discussion as to whether or not the Bible is the Word of God. You are mistaken. I'm simply saying that your position is argumentative. Whether or not the Bible is the Word of God in it's original form is one argument. Whether or not the Bible is translated correctly is a completely different argument. You seem to be arguing that because the translations may or may not be flawed, then the Bible is not the Word of God. I'm saying your argument is somewhat flawed.
We either take the scriptures we have, with concordances of Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic texts and other study tools.... and we trust in the Holy Spirit to bring understanding... or we abandon it all. Which position would you prefer?
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I believe that most Christians while espousing the "Jesus to God" path are actually following a "Bible to Jesus to God" path. By demanding that the Bible be the infallible Word of God ( keyword infallible with capitalized Word of God ), it is elevated to a place of such importance that many modern Christians mistake the Bible FOR God. I have come across many examples in my personal experience of exclusionary behavior from Christians where they justify their actions in the Bible rather than the spirit of the Bible itself. In my opinion, these people have replaced a direct relationship with God with a direct relationship with the book.
Additionally, by presenting the book as infallible and as God's Law, we, as Christians, are ignoring the fact that we do not read the original text. the most commonly accepted English translation is the King James version. It is this version more than any other English translation that people read. If it is true that the Bible is our pathway to God, then that pathway has been decided by 17th century scholars who translated the Bible with an intent to translate in such a way as to please a worldly king ( namely King James ). Yet, we, as Christians, cling to the rhetoric of "infallible Word of God" or "God's Law" when, in fact, we can prove that there was a decidedly protestant slant to the translation, although some of the Pre-Protestant was allowed to survive in the King James version ( Jeremiah 17:10, for example ). It is this argument that the majority of non-believers fall back to most often. They see the fallacy of "God's Word" when a simple browse of any bookstore can show that the "Word" has changed over time and translation.
By clinging to our false premise, that the Bible is infallible and law, we are not only missing the spirit of the text and alienating non-believers who could come to Christ if not for the blatant illogical stance of his followers but we also break God's first commandment...
...by placing the book on the pathway to God.
I know what the response will be," But I dont do that" Or " Thats not what we are doing" but it is! Thats the scary part. Every time someone quotes the book instead of opening their heart and arms, they place the book before God. Every time they look to God for an answer and open the book instead of speaking to God, they place the book first. It is part of our Christian culture. "How do I find out about God?" I asked as a teen. My preacher responded," Read your Bible" When I went to school ( after high school ) to study to be a minister, Read Your Bible. We conduct Bible Studies every week. Theres a Bible Study thread thats been stickied at the top of the forum. We look to the BIBLE before we look to God.
The very book we cling to tells us to cast it aside. It tells us the kingdom of Heaven is found within. It tells us to place nothing between us and God. It tells us what we need to know to begin to have a REAL relationship with a LIVING BEING, yet we study the old dusty history book looking for what God said, instead of what God SAYS.
I do, too. Which is why we are having this discussion.
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No thats a black and white all or nothing argument and its flawed IF the Bible is meant as a guide to find a relationship directly with God, to be set aside only once that relationship has been firmly established. ( also see my post above for a more complete description of my argument )
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If it weren't for the Bible, I wouldn't even know that Jesus existed. If it weren't for the Bible, i wouldn't know that there was a God or a kingdom of God, or that He was coming back, or that there was such a thing as sin, salvation........the list goes on and on.
I don't have a relationship with my Bible, I have a relationship with God, but I learned about Him through my Bible.
I don't have a relationship with my Bible, I have a relationship with God, but I learned about Him through my Bible.
Your response shows that you think I am NOT a christian and that I am attacking Christianity as a faith. Please reread what I have asked, what I have posted from the perspective of one Christian speaking to another.
I can read an autobiogrpahy and learn about someone. I can read a diary and learn about someone. The reading and learning does not give me a direct relationship with that person. Just as reading the Bible does not give us a direct relationship with God.
It is only through SPEAKING to God that we establish that relationship.
Well, of course! I have a very intimate relationship with God. I think you have a misunderstanding of what a Christian is. A Christian has a relationship with God, nobody here would dispute that with you. But we come to a knowledge and understanding of who He is through reading His word, the Bible.
From the important notes of the subforum mods:
Group Reminder= Please Read!
This group was formed for CHRISTIANS, and those with similar beliefs. It is not meant for atheists, agnostics nor those who question the beliefs of the members here.
So I am going to say this once....if you are not a Christian with beliefs congruent with the membership here, then go somewhere else and post.
This wasn't meant to be a debate forum nor battlefield for those who don't believe, or insist on proof of members' beliefs.
I will be checking this thread later tonight and those posting against what this forum was meant for will be taking a little vacation. So I suggest you go find somewhere else to fight your battles.
I'm not saying that you aren't a Christian, but it's obvious that you have beliefs that aren't congruent with the membership here. You're here for an argument.
Lisa, its the first commandment Ive said it twice already.
Im done. This is ridiculous. I tried to have a conversation and you folks go into ENEMY IN THE FENCE mode.
I AM A CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amazing how you treat fellow believers. No wonder you're ridiculed outside of this forum.
You win. I throw my hands up in disgust.
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Romans 10:17
God does not "reveal" to us in the manner He did in past times. God does speak to us through the written word. This is where faith and relationship begin. So in turn people consider the Bible "the word of God". To make issue of this is to do nothing more than make issue. There is a small percentage who feel the way you describe. There is also a small percentage who would tell you that the KJV was the Bible that Paul carried and was sent by God himself. That does not in any way violate the 1st commandment. There are folks who are peculiar concerning the book but that does not mean they place the book before God.
God does not "reveal" to us in the manner He did in past times. God does speak to us through the written word. This is where faith and relationship begin. So in turn people consider the Bible "the word of God". To make issue of this is to do nothing more than make issue. There is a small percentage who feel the way you describe. There is also a small percentage who would tell you that the KJV was the Bible that Paul carried and was sent by God himself. That does not in any way violate the 1st commandment. There are folks who are peculiar concerning the book but that does not mean they place the book before God.
Are you saying that you don't believe in the bible? Spell it out batman I'm too dense to understand the platform you are firing from.
I hear you, that you are a Christian. But can you explain where you are coming from?
I hear you, that you are a Christian. But can you explain where you are coming from?
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