Ceramic Coil Debate...

[Drewps5co0tt]

Hi guys,

I recently picked up the SWAG II kit by vaporesso, it came with a .5 ceramic coil and a .15 traditional/cotton coil. I had NEVER vaped a ceramic coil before I got this kit, because of all the debate on whether or not ceramic was safe to vape or not and I felt it was just best to stay away from them.

When I got the kit I figured what the heck, I'll try it, one coil isn't going to harm me. I have to admit, that after using it for a couple of weeks, I REALLY REALLY REALLY like the ceramic coil! In fact, I like it so much, I want order more of them but have so far resisted in doing so.

I don't know if this matters or not but I vaped the .5 at 30 watts. I wanted to get some feedback on ceramic coils and whether or not I can and should feel safe using them, I'm a bit torn on what direction to go here. If there is still a ceramic concern, I don't know if that's only for vapors who vape at higher watts or what the deal is.

Thanks

 

[440BB]

From what I've read the concerns arose when Uwell announced they weren't making ceramic coils because they believed that when damaged, ceramic particles could be inhaled. Some think it was just a tactical statement and there were no studies confirming the risk as far as I know. I use Vaporesso Ccells myself in some of my setups, in the 25-35 watt range.

I don't think there is more risk than cotton or silica myself. These materials may degrade but they're in liquid, and unless one physically damages a coil I can't see a problem. IMO running dry or too hot (>450F) are the riskiest things a vaper can do.

That said, the debate will likely never be settled. Once a negative statement is out there it sticks in people's minds. There won't be a study that definitively proves any form of vaping is completely safe.

 

[ppeeble]

When i first started using clearomisers the only coils available had silica wicks. There was some debate as to whether they could potentially be harmful if damaged (or even in general use). At that time alternative wicking materials were not widely available so the whole debate sort of fizzled out...
Well, that has nothing to do with your question but it's a typical example of how human beings rationalize everything

As for whether particular wicking materials have the potential to cause harm - there simply isn't enough evidence either way. My instinct is that, for the potential amounts we are talking about, people will generally breathe in a lot more pollutants walking down the road than could be released from a wick. Couple that with the fact that wicks are (or should be) continously wet, thus trapping possible particles, assures me that i needn't worry too much...
As with most things in life, all you can do presently is educate yourself and go with your gut instinct.

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

I remember when I finally dumped the coil (when I took the tank apart), I saw really tiny brown specs (what appeared to be brown anyways) on top the top/flat part of the ceramic wick. Any idea on what that might have been? Concerned that it could have been tiny particles of ceramic, I just noticed it when throwing out the coil but didn't obsess over it.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Hard to say if ceramic is worse than other wicking materials without proper studies, which you won't likely see.

I never heard of the fact that Uwell warned against danger of ceramic coil wicks until now. Looks like that was about 3 years ago judging from a post made on reddit.

I can't find a Uwell coil made with ceramic wicks. There is one review on a US retailers site that identifies a Nanchaku coil as ceramic, but I can't find evidence that this is true. So it looks like Uwell stuck to their guns so far and have not attempted to profit from ceramic even though many companies have in the 3 years since they released their "report".

Vaporesso has a blog article released last year stating:

"Health Risks: Some researchers and reviewers of ceramic coils initially expressed some concerns about potential health risks. That said, subsequent test of ceramic coils revealed no apparent concern about particulates from ceramic coils. Ultimately, the studies are inconclusive, but the worst-case scenario is that long-term vaping with ceramic coils may pose a severe health risk."

For whatever that's worth.

 

[HigherStateD]

The thing that got me back to vaping a year and a half ago, after a decade break, was a cCell cartridge I bought at an "alternative" shop. I was so impressed by how far the tech had come, I bought a bottle of e-liquid to refill it with... Point is, I'm sure with the alternative market as popular as it is, if there were any short to mid-teem issues from bits of ceramic, we'd see it by now, especially since people regularly vape that stuff to the last drop...

 

[mackman]

Lots use the Vaporesso Euc 0.5Ω ceramic coil in a Billet Box; they last for eons and flavor all day

 

[Spydro]

Ah yes, the Vaporesso cCell snafu stories that started in March 2016. I ran a forum in South Africa back then when the cCell was one of the leading topics there. At that time the Vaporesso Target 2 and Genini tanks, and the Melo III tanks that came with Eleaf Pico Mods were the main vehicles that drove the cCells there. This probably won't answer your questions, but may be of some use.

While there was some talk about the ceramic itself, no one took anything that might have been construed as slightly negative very seriously. Their biggest issue was those tanks leaking that had something to do with an early very large bad lot of cCells that had been shipped to the vendors there that wouldn't seat correctly. They had to seriously pre-prime the cCells outside of the tank at first, then leave the tanks top caps a bit loose to allow the liquids in the tank to flow correctly. I on the other hand had no issues with leaking, flow, etc of any kind at all with any of my huge stash of 0.9Ω cCell's in a bunch of all three of those tanks that I ran on many different TC mods. My cCells were all from a different lot number (from a specific US vendor). Flavor was very good, and I used very few of the near 100 cCell's I had in my stash because they worked flawlessly for as many as 500 tank refills (without any elaborate pre priming). IOW far more refills than they were suppose to be able to do (but then I always ran the exact same liquids in all of them).

In the end the use of cCells by me was short lived, and all that gear/supplies was delegated to a storage box someplace around here way before the end of 2016.

a small first sample of the stash I bought .
Target 2

Genini

Melo III

 

[KonaNeil]

Your past sounds very much like my present except that I'm using Atlantis and Heracles tanks with my Ccell coils and I'm mostly using the 0.6 ohm SS.

After getting off of nicotine and quitting vaping several years ago I recently restarted with 0 Nic out of pandemic boredom.

I too stumbled upon the article condemning ceramics but didn't take it too seriously as my throat after several decades of smoking is very sensitive to any irritation and I don't sense any from what I'm doing now.

I have to ask, what moved you away from the Ccells? I can't find anything that tastes as vivid or lasts as long.

I want to try whatever you're using.

 

[Spydro]

@KonaNeil
Retired them because the draw on the cCell gear was not ideal for my DL vaping style (I like big air and thick flavor rich vapor). So I mostly bought and used them for a time to experiment with to help support those on that forum in ZA that were having so many problems with theirs.

About 2.5 years ago I switched to using specific mesh atty's ONLY on mech squonk mods and TC mods. I have 27 of them. In order... 3 Vandy Vape Mesh RDA's were the first ones out/bought. They don't have a drip well so squonking them is touchy, and the build can be critical. Far better was the next 9 I bought for squonking, Digiflavor Mesh Pro RDA's. A bit touchy to build right was their only minor fail to me at first because I soon figured out how to build them perfect (like the Vandy Vape they could be a fire breathing dragon if not built right). Then 9 Wotofo Profile Mesh RDA's for squonking and they immediately went to the top shelf. Their spring loaded build deck makes building them a breeze even with the first build. Then I followed them up with 6 Wotofo Profile Unity Mesh RTA's to use on TC mods. All of mine have 0.12Ω OFRF nexMesh for TC Mods to 0.18Ω SS316L or KA1 mesh builds for mechs in them. They take a lot of wicking material.. so at first I used Cotton Bacon, but found that Vapefly Firebolt Cotton was much easier to build with so switched to a lifetime supply of it. What they all share in common for me is that they deliver the best flavor rich vapor for my DL vaping style than any atty of any design that I used before them. Note that I also only vaped my own DIY liquids that were formulated specifically for stellar flavor in the atty/build/etc that would run them in. IOW, I dedicated gear to my liquids and that gear is all those liquids are ever vaped in.

There are endless threads on ECF starting around 2.5 years ago about each of the atty's mentioned above with everything you'd want to know about them, how to build them, etc that can be found with the ECF search engine using their names. Some of them may be still available as new authentic atty's (most likely those from Wotofo as they've had a long run of success), some have been cloned. Otherwise classifieds.
HTH

Vandy Vape Mesh RDA's vs Digiflavor Mess Pro RDA's. It's been so long since I've used the Vandy Vape's that I can't remember if they also came with a solid positive pin for non squonk use like the Mesh Pros did.

Wotofo Profile Mesh RDA's

Wotofo Profile Unity Mesh RTA's

I've always preferred mechs, so my top mesh gear is the Profile RDA's on P67 Reo's.

 

[KonaNeil]

Thank you very much for chronicling your pathway to vaping Nirvana.

I should have guessed that you'd be rolling your own. Should I ever get over my somewhat irrational fear of making an impedance error and blowing off part of my face I'll use your posting as a guide of where to go and what to bypass. I don't do DL but it's much easier to restrict air flow than it is to create it.

One further thought:
I'm surprised that someone hasn't introduced ceramic wicking to RTA's. It would have to be a fixed system as you of course couldn't trim ceramic the way you can cotton.

 

[HigherStateD]

Thank you very much for chronicling your pathway to vaping Nirvana.

I should have guessed that you'd be rolling your own. Should I ever get over my somewhat irrational fear of making an impedance error and blowing off part of my face I'll use your posting as a guide of where to go and what to bypass. I don't do DL but it's much easier to restrict air flow than it is to create it.

One further thought:
I'm surprised that someone hasn't introduced ceramic wicking to RTA's. It would have to be a fixed system as you of course couldn't trim ceramic the way you can cotton.

That theory has been explored with cilica rope wicks, iirc, it's commercially known as ekowool.
As for impudence errors, a good regulated mod will sort out any irregularities, and seeing as most rebuildables don't do series/parallel configurations, it really isn't that over bearing. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[KonaNeil]

Spydro,

Would you like to sell the Ccell coils and tanks you put away in 2016? It doesn't sound like you're going back to them

I tried to private message you but when I click on your avatar the PM link doesn't appear.

 

[stols001]

I read Uwell's little blurb and it honestly read (to me) as "we can't seem to make it work so its unsafe."

I believe they had promised one but the way they were discussing crumbling an stuff it just (to me anyway) they were having issues (and don't FORGET within THAT time period. THEIR processes, and uh, their necessary profit margin.

I sort of read it and went "Nice TRY Uwell how about saying YOU can't and leave it at that." They were a bit too EMPAHTIC.

I trust Vaperesso to NOT poison its customers and the CCELL has been around a long time. I JUST encountered it and I will say, I love it.

I had no reservations ordering many many more. LOL.

Do what you feel is best. I tend to do that based on how my BODY feels, not what things "look like." They look how they look. For whatever reason the Doggy Style like. ah, sort of makes it so the wick turns VERY DARK long before you might HAVE to change it. I mean I change it because I See it and I am like "ewww" but I also aware I did not actually nee to.

The only thing ever did me wrong was too much PG and that manifested itself IN MY BODY almost immediately. I did not see any molecules of "pain" floating around in it an most other people can vape it just fine.

Really though that coil has been around a long time, no ill effect reports. Will it shorten your life by two months if you use it consistently? I Have NO CLUE.

Do you care? I guess this depends on how risk taking you are. I'm, pretty chill with vaping ,my lungs ONLY show improvement and a pneumonia scar I was told would be there forever, vanished.

Okay.... I think I am going to keep vaping ALL the vapes I love including something ceramic every now and then and get regular chest X-rays and checkups. :Works for me.

Also if I get lung cancer any time in the near future, it's probably from cigarettes although my family does not do cancer much. I truly believe I will be okay.

But you have decide if a snotty post from Uwell is worth all the ANGST. I don't believe so but that is me.

MJ users been using CERAMIC as SUPER INSANE temps and they also seem to be doing fine (without vitamin E OMG)/

Anna

 

[HigherStateD]

@stols001 hit the nail on the head.
It can't be any worse than burning tobacco.
Many MJ users burn their coils out trying to get every drop, on non-temp-control batteries. My temp control 18650 rig goes up to 800°F, but starts tasting nasty above 730. So, yeah, I doubt a tasty vape off a cCell with e-liquid is producing anything relatively harmful.

As for profit margins, I personally prefer corunderum surfaces to vape off of, but I doubt sapphire, ruby, or even even silicon carbide, all of which produce intense flavor compared to the muting and muddling effects of quartz, ceramic or titanium, will come out of the cost prohibitive range for vaping pedestrian nicotine any time soon.

Point is, there are lots of things people vape off of, and most of them are far better than smoking. Ceramic isn't the worst of them, and e-cig temps are well within it's tolerance, if made properly.

 

[Spydro]

I don't do DL

FWIW the mesh atty's can be stopped down to a MTL draw.

Spydro,

Would you like to sell the Ccell coils and tanks you put away in 2016? It doesn't sound like you're going back to them

I tried to private message you but when I click on your avatar the PM link doesn't appear.

My private messaging here has been turn off for a very long time for among other things so the endless requests to buy my mountains of unused gear would stop (I have never sold any of it). No I will never use the 8-9 tanks or boxes full of cCells again. But I will also no longer sell, package, ship or PIF anything. I got tired of trying to deal with the trolls and bottom dwellers that wanted everything of nothing many years ago (long before I even took up vaping). I live a solo life, and now days my health issues no longer allow me to drive or do any but minor physical things anymore. So I couldn't do it even if I wanted to (which I don't). Sorry.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

 

[KonaNeil]

FWIW the mesh atty's can be stopped down to a MTL draw.
My private messaging here has been turn off for a very long time for among other things so the endless requests to buy my mountains of unused gear would stop (I have never sold any of it). No I will never use the 8-9 tanks or boxes full of cCells again. But I will also no longer sell, package, ship or PIF anything. I got tired of trying to deal with the trolls and bottom dwellers that wanted everything of nothing many years ago (long before I even took up vaping). I live a solo life, and now days my health issues no longer allow me to drive or do any but minor physical things anymore. So I couldn't do it even if I wanted to (which I don't). Sorry.

Sorry to have suggested going where you don't want to go and can no longer go. The picture of you next to your beautiful Vette makes you look so vital.

Thanks for your guidance!

 

[Spydro]

Sorry to have suggested going where you don't want to go and can no longer go. The picture of you next to your beautiful Vette makes you look so vital.

Thanks for your guidance!

No worries, it's not a foul on your part.
That picture was taken in 2005. But I didn't voluntarily stop driving until last May (my vision is not what it used to be, so I will not risk other peoples lives).