Changes for the better.

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NealBJr

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I would like to thank smok for the short lifespan of their replacement coils. I have now changed over to RDTA. Much better flavor and clouds and P/U a much needed hobby of coil building. Only a month or so and I am making framed staple coils with no sweat.

Hi and welcome to the forums. Like you, I found the RDTA route much more cheaper, better tasting, and, well, generally better over all. I don't want to bash smok at all, they serve their purpose even though it's not what I use. Smok is great for getting people to quit analogs. Rebuilding is a daunting task for many, especially if you're just beginning. Smok gets as close to a cloud chasing build for as cheap as possible. They fill a niche. There are stronger, better built mods out there, but none offer them at a price that is affordable to someone just looking to get into vaping, they offer an economical solution. I have no hesitation of recommending a smok product if they're on a budget. I just let them know that it's an entry level device.
 

bombastinator

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Hi and welcome to the forums. Like you, I found the RDTA route much more cheaper, better tasting, and, well, generally better over all. I don't want to bash smok at all, they serve their purpose even though it's not what I use. Smok is great for getting people to quit analogs. Rebuilding is a daunting task for many, especially if you're just beginning. Smok gets as close to a cloud chasing build for as cheap as possible. They fill a niche. There are stronger, better built mods out there, but none offer them at a price that is affordable to someone just looking to get into vaping, they offer an economical solution. I have no hesitation of recommending a smok product if they're on a budget. I just let them know that it's an entry level device.
I disagree. Smok is great for having someone temporarily quit analogs, have the thing break on them, decide vaping is junk, and go back to cigarettes. Vaping isn’t junk. SMOK is though.
 

NealBJr

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I disagree. Smok is great for having someone temporarily quit analogs, have the thing break on them, decide vaping is junk, and go back to cigarettes. Vaping isn’t junk. SMOK is though.

Analogy time! would you rather someone who is learning to ride motorcycles ride a Ducati or a cheap Yamaha? or a new teenage driver a Corvette, or a used Honda? My Sons aren't going to be driving Corvettes, I can guarantee that. :)
 
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DeloresRose

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Analogy time! would you rather someone who is learning to ride motorcycles ride a Ducati or a cheap Yamaha? or a new teenage driver a Corvette, or a used Honda? My Sons aren't going to be driving Corvettes, I can guarantee that. :)

I agree with you. Most people - like myself- would not invest a large sum of money just to see if vaping might work for them.

Cheap gear, even pods and cig alikes serve the purpose of cheap enough to take the risk, and most people are smart enough to understand that they’ve bought the lowest priced entry level gear they can find.

Neither I nor anyone else I know who quit with vaping needed a guru, a map, and Sherpa guide to help us evolve from ego towards better gear.

It’s pretty intuitive.

We all got the idea that vaping would work, if only the battery didn’t die so fast, if only the tank lasted longer, if only there was a bit better flavor, and we all made that journey rather than go back to smoking.

So whatever device you can afford that appeals to you to try first I’m all for it.
 

bombastinator

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Analogy time! would you rather someone who is learning to ride motorcycles ride a Ducati or a cheap Yamaha? or a new teenage driver a Corvette, or a used Honda? My Sons aren't going to be driving Corvettes, I can guarantee that. :)
This assumes SMOK has the reliability of Yamaha. If they did I wouldn’t have a problem with the whole thing. I don’t know of a motorcycle company that makes things that break down literally after a mere week or two of use regularly. Now giving the new driver a heavily used classic Fiat, preferably one with a series of manually adjustable two barrel carburetors with no set screws and no rust protection, THAT might be a comparison worth making.
 
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NealBJr

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This assumes SMOK has the reliability of Yamaha. If they did I wouldn’t have a problem with the whole thing. I don’t know of a motorcycle company that makes things that break down literally after a mere week or two of use regularly. Now giving the new driver a heavily used classic Fiat, preferably one with a series of manually adjustable two barrel carburetors with no set screws and no rust protection, THAT might be a comparison worth making.


...whatever analogy works for you. :) But, the key point, is you don't necessarily recommend a larger and more complicated and expensive device to new vapers. That's also why pilots don't learn how to fly on four engine jets...they learn on a cheap-o single engine plane and get pilot certified, then they learn the more complicated multi-engine rules.

I am not a Smok fan myself. I kinda dislike them a bit, but that doesn't mean that I bash them. They are, however, innovative and are willing to go out on a limb for new features. Sometimes they work well, sometimes not, and sometimes it's all just bling. They have contributed to a lot of new design features that others copy. Where would top fill be without the innovative TFV4's top fill feature? Also, they opened the norm for atomizers by popularizing larger atomizer sizes (again, TFV4). Whether or not you like Smok or not, they are innovators. They also offer mods at a reasonable price.

This sort of discussion reminds me of the Vamo Vs. Provari debate of years past. Yes, Provaris were better built, more reliable, and just a better mod overall. The problem is, It was so expensive compared to the Vamo. Provape stuck to their ideals, and it eventually ran the company into the ground. That brings home the point that quality isn't everything when price is concerned. Industry needs a balance between quality and price, and I think Smok is closer to the sweet spot than many other companies. There are cheaper mods than Smok, there are better mods than Smok, but there are no mods that are both cheaper AND better.
 

GOMuniEsq

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SMOK does occupy the niche of providing a comparatively affordable and ubiquitous method to transition from smoking to vaping. The aggressive planned obsolescence (assuming malice since they've had 9 years to overcome incompetence) is a feature that motivates the user to seek ways to make vaping even more affordable and convenient.

It hurts my feelings to see a $5 coil head fail prematurely and have to throw it in the garbage.
It's therapeutic to draw a 6" length of rayon from its 40' box and lovingly craft it into a working RBA rewick good for 2-4 weeks, with the knowledge that it only cost 25¢.
 

NealBJr

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SMOK does occupy the niche of providing a comparatively affordable and ubiquitous method to transition from smoking to vaping. The aggressive planned obsolescence (assuming malice since they've had 9 years to overcome incompetence) is a feature that motivates the user to seek ways to make vaping even more affordable and convenient.

It hurts my feelings to see a $5 coil head fail prematurely and have to throw it in the garbage.
It's therapeutic to draw a 6" length of rayon from its 40' box and lovingly craft it into a working RBA rewick good for 2-4 weeks, with the knowledge that it only cost 25¢.

That is entirely why I got into RTAs rather early. Back then, I was using CE5 clearomizers, and I hated to see them thrown out after a week of use. The ones I had had replaceable coils, but even then, I hated to see a $2 coil be thrown away after a week when I can see the problem is simply it's dirty... so I got into rebuilding the CE5 coil heads.. Even though it's tiny, I thought it easy to take 5 minutes to rebuild a CE5 coil head, but then was disheartened to know the rubber seals that hold the kanthal/nichrome don't last forever. I was thinking a simple clamp, and this can be kept up for much larger, so I looked into getting a rebuildable CE5 (which they don't have), and ended up getting an AGA-T2. Been doing RTA's since then.

To me, Smok is like a high vapor version of the CE5... cheap atomizer, replaceable coils... however, Smok did do one thing that put me in their "dislike", and that was, they designed their coils to where you cannot rebuild them even if you wanted to. To me, that gave me the mindset that Smok is about selling coils. Smok also tended to cater more to the cloud chasing side of the vaping industry. I was surprised to find them come out with the Smok Spirals tank. It was a 22mm tank that can use regular replaceable coils or use the RTA head. Flavor was on point, it was fairly easy to build, no leaks, I thought I had a winner... until one of the screws stripped 1 month later. First time that's happened to me. So when I looked for a replacement RTA coil head, it was as much as the tank itself. So, I let the spirals tank fall into oblivion, and kept looking elsewhere.

At my work, there are about 10 vapers (guessing). I am the ONLY one that does not have an all smok setup. most everyone else uses something like a smok alien with a TFV8, or a stick prince combo, or whatever. The stick prince/Eleaf AIO tend to break easily, the Smok box mods tend to last about a year, and the coils tend to last about a week. EVERY time I recommend they learn RTAs, every single person said they don't have time to learn about RTAs... so, it is just me rebuilding. As long as they keep buying coils, they seem to have no problems with the tanks, albeit they pay for that ability. I am indeed thinking of getting a non RTA tank for trips and what not. But like you, I like the RTA, I like rewicking when I want, and I only redo coils about once every 2-3 months. I was thinking of getting a box of rayon, but for now, I am finishing up my first pack of cotton, and I just have another 135 pack of Muji Cotton on order that will last me another 5 years.
 
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Phoneguy1492

Full Member
May 15, 2019
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...whatever analogy works for you. :) But, the key point, is you don't necessarily recommend a larger and more complicated and expensive device to new vapers. That's also why pilots don't learn how to fly on four engine jets...they learn on a cheap-o single engine plane and get pilot certified, then they learn the more complicated multi-engine rules.

I am not a Smok fan myself. I kinda dislike them a bit, but that doesn't mean that I bash them. They are, however, innovative and are willing to go out on a limb for new features. Sometimes they work well, sometimes not, and sometimes it's all just bling. They have contributed to a lot of new design features that others copy. Where would top fill be without the innovative TFV4's top fill feature? Also, they opened the norm for atomizers by popularizing larger atomizer sizes (again, TFV4). Whether or not you like Smok or not, they are innovators. They also offer mods at a reasonable price.

This sort of discussion reminds me of the Vamo Vs. Provari debate of years past. Yes, Provaris were better built, more reliable, and just a better mod overall. The problem is, It was so expensive compared to the Vamo. Provape stuck to their ideals, and it eventually ran the company into the ground. That brings home the point that quality isn't everything when price is concerned. Industry needs a balance between quality and price, and I think Smok is closer to the sweet spot than many other companies. There are cheaper mods than Smok, there are better mods than Smok, but there are no mods that are both cheaper AND better.
 

Phoneguy1492

Full Member
May 15, 2019
34
58
O crap now I feel kind of bad for bashing SMOK. I am using the 220 Alien now. And have the priv I think as a backup. My bashing was about the coils. Everyone that I used on the Prince tank was out within 4 days. And of course I liked the big tank with the top fill. So far I have not had any problems except maybe having to change out some O rings. Just the coils and you know that they knew about the problems with the coils a long time ago.
 

GOMuniEsq

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Aug 25, 2012
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Alberta, Canada
I am the ONLY one that does not have an all smok setup. most everyone else uses something like a smok alien with a TFV8, or a stick prince combo, or whatever.
What a sorry state of affairs. They probably pay others to change their motor oil and brake pads too, and pay the dealership for rubber undercoating.

I am indeed thinking of getting a non RTA tank for trips and what not.
Consider a very basic pod system for trips. Light, unobtrusive, simple, and charges off USB in under an hour. Also convenient for when you're working on a fancy new build for your RTA. I've become more willing to experiment knowing I have a backup on hand :D
 

ShowMeTwice

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Jun 28, 2016
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the Universe • ∞
Neither I nor anyone else I know who quit with vaping needed a guru, a map, and Sherpa guide to help us evolve from ego towards better gear.
Amen!

All I can say is I'm always trying to evolve and my buddy DNA has been helping with that. I heard of a Sherpa guide who once worked at Smok but they refused his guidance with better gear development so he sought out this guru at ECF with a life skills map to help hold that ego in check. Neither the guru nor the Sherpa guide needed anyone to hold their hand in this quest. Om

christmas trees and candles??? kinda like mech mods along with .001 ohm 18 ga. coils... o_O

enLIGHTNING my friend...so 3 switches and 3 bulbs...argh grrr
 
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