Chasing flavor: Questions on PT2 rebuilds & 1st RDA purchase

[CountryTime]

Just to give a bit of background about where I am in terms of vaping experience, coil rebuilding, etc. Hope it helps and also allow me to apologize in advance for the lengthy post...I just want to get as much info out there as possible in the hopes that someone will be able to help me with these issues. My first issue is concerning rebuilding coils for my protanks and still getting a lot of muted/OFF flavor with them. My second question below is concerning my first rebuildable atomizer purchase. Once I do buy an RDA, I will still be occasionally using my protanks and recoiling them (as I rebuild them for two other family members and still want to perfect this process for the best total flavor production). Thanks for taking the timeto read this....

I started vaping with regular old Ego-T style batteries using CE4 clearomizers (like a lot of people), and I puffed on these for about 6 months but it wasn't satisfactory enough for me to totally quit analogs (but I was able to cut down by 75%). I actually bought a Protank-1 from a B&B a few months back and was very impressed with the vapor production and increase in flavor I got. So from that moment on, I put the clearomizers to bed. Have no plan to ever use one of those again, I hate them now. So, after using this site and reading endlessly about mods, I finally pulled the trigger on an Innokin iTaste SVD and I honestly could not be happier with this thing. Going VV/VW for the first time, I finally understood a lot about what all I had been reading on this forum. Got an instant boost in flavor production for the first time. So, for that....THANK YOU ECF!!! I love this forum and you guys/gals have been so kind and helpful. Once I got my SVD and my first order of Backwoods Brew, I decided I could for the first time go without analog cigarettes....and as of right now have not smoked one in 65 days!!! Never thought this possible and I am so thankful for this forum, as without it....not sure I would have ever been able to learn all I have and keep from going back to the smokes. I also just placed an order for another iTaste SVD, with batteries, charger, BWB juices for my dad's Christmas gift. I currently have him off analogs now for almost two months as well. He had been smoking for 42 years. Things like that let me know that so far, all of this has been time well spent. I can't hardly stand to see him using the Ego/CE4 a day longer, lol. Hitting the SVD with PT2 has ruined those for him.

Now where I am....is that I have finally settled on a few eJuices that I really like and plan on sticking with. Ie. MaltyToffee (BWB), Boba's (AV), Blueberry Cheesecake (MBV), Dutch Apple Pie (HDV). The reason that I am ready now to start making a move towards dripping is because I am chasing flavor beyond anything else. Optimum flavor production is an elusive thing IMO, like chasing an armadillo covered in crisco on an ice skating rink. Vapor production is great and all but my experience with all three of the Kanger Protank models is that when I first swap out my coils I get the most amazing flavor but this quickly diminishes. My experience is that the first three hours of a new coil, the flavor is incomparable and where I would like to be all the time... my coils seem to last a good 2-3 weeks but after that first day the flavor is muted by a good 50% if not more. So, for the most part the Protanks are great overall but the longer I use them the more aware I am that they are muting the full flavor potential of my eJuices. When I first swap out for a fresh coil I am dumbfounded by how amazing the flavor of my liquids are only to be gradually dissapointed by the flavor becoming less and less defined throughout that first day. The coils now continue producing fat vapor clouds and work great but after using a fresh one, I now KNOW that the flavor could potentially taste that good all the time. This is what I am attempting to accomplish by switching to a RDA. I have approximately 60 different eJuices now and RDA are also great for testing out flavors during the steeping process in order to find out how well they are progressing, etc.... I also understand that rebuilding coils for an RDA is most likely where I want to be when it comes to chasing the best possible flavor production.

I started rebuilding my own Protank coils a few weeks back and have been having an absolute BLAST doing it, but in all honesty... I have still yet to fully accomplish the flavor I get out of a brand new Kanger branded 2.2ohm coil. I have built coils in all ranges between 1.6 and 2.7 ohm using 28g, 30g and 32g (with varying numbers of wraps) around 1/16" & 5/64" drill bits using CVS brand 100% cotton (bad taste) so I then progressed through trying pure 100% "organic" cotton, white peaches and creme yarn, 1/2&3mm eKowool wicking material. I have tried with flavor wicks and without flavor wicks. I will admit that at this time I have somewhat grown frustrated with rebuilding coils as I can ALWAYS taste the cotton, ekowool or the peaches and creme yarn (just doesn't taste right to me yet). I have read endless hours and watched dozens of youtube videos and am matching them literally word for word but still just cannot figure out why I am not getting this excellent pure taste that others are reporting (especially out of using cotton and fused microcoils). Have been able to build absolutely perfect microcoils perfectly centered, you name it....let the ejuice prime into the cotton and then let it sit installed in the tank for up to an hour, but there again....something is just OFF on the flavor to me. When friends/family hit my rebuilds they all say that they taste amazing and I am getting excellent vapor production (even better than oem coils) but I know for sure that the flavor doesn't quite match that of a new OEM coil. Any insight into any of this would be very much appreicated. I know for sure that I will figure it out and nothing good ever comes easy. The devil is most obviously in the details when it comes to rebuilding your own coils and in finding that perfect balance between vapor production and optimium flavor. It's really not about the money as much as it is working under the idea that I know I can get better flavor out of my Protanks, as pretty much everyone I have encountered that rebuilds them is reporting. I am, however very much enjoying the challenge of rebuilding coils and I know I will enjoy rebuilding atomizer coils/wicks.

Any feedback on my experience here is greately appreciated. I am hoping that I will have a different experience with an RDA and was hoping to get some advice on which RDA I should buy. I would like to keep the price UNDER 50 dollars, as I have spent way too much already on equipment and DYI supplies. Right now I am leaning towards the 2in1 RDA/tank from AGI...as this one seems to give the best overall bang for the buck. I am hoping that you will be able to get me to the right product the first time, skipping the seemingly typical experience of buying and using 2-3 different RDAs before finally settling on a winner. Any advice or suggestions concerning anything I have written about here is greatly appreciated. As always, thank you very much for the help and for taking the time to read this lengthy thread. (I dont post often, so had a lot to cram into this one)
Hope everyone has a happy holiday!!!

In Summary/Conclusion:
A) Looking for info on your thoughts as to what maybe I should drill down on in my coil rebuilds to help refine and optimize
flavor for my ejuices, ie...what combo have you settled on and are rebuilding consistently now for best flavor & vape production? (I will continue using my protanks for sure even after buying an RDA)

B) If you agree that organic cotton is the best flavor medium for the PT2 rebuilds, can you offer any insight on exactly how
much wicking material to use for optimum performance/flavor? Are you doing cotton builds only on micro coils, or using it for
any standard (non-fused coils)?

C) What exact make and model of RDA I should buy, not too cheap, not too expensive...and also maybe one that I could rebuild
using my above mentioned DIY rebuildable materials. Keep in mind that I am a bit of a noob with a lot of this stuff, I am only
about 6 weeks into doing work with coils here and there so keep this within your suggestion on the RDA, something I can hit
the ground running with.

D) Also, are most of these RDA's I am researching going to be okay to use with my standard VV/VW SVD mod, or do most people
use these with mech mods?

E) You, RBA rebuilders....are you washing, rinsing and repeating your Ekowool, standard silica wick, peaches and creme yarn or
pure organic cotton? (I have yet to see this mentioned in any of the RBA videos I have seen on youtube)

F) When dripping for the purposes of sampling and trying multiple juices in a short period of time, are you guys rewicking or
are you using a flavor eraser? and if so, what brand and/or vendor have you had best experience with? Are there better ways
of switching flavors in a dripper without using a flavor eraser?

Thanks again gang!!!
CountryTime

 

[wonner]

I cannot give you a point by point on each of your questions, but here is my experience.

I too chase flavor above all. Throat hit is less important, and vapor production relatively unimportant.

I ditched all the tanks. For me, they were flavor destroyers.

First choice is a Genesis style atomizer wicked with ceramic and a single 4/3 wrap of 32 ga Kanthal. Dead simple and predictable.

Second is cartomizers, without tanks. Cheap, swappable, predictable, and very little juice waste.

Third, but only for tasting juices, is a dripping atomizer. I use an HH.357 but most any will probably work.

Lastly, although you didn't ask, I ditched all of the cheap imported APVs. Life is too short to put up with crap.

Seems pretty simple. It only took 4 years and a couple thousand dollars to get there. Enjoy the ride.

That's it. Hope that helps.

 

[CountryTime]

Awesome, thank you for your reply. Good info. I will check into the genesis style atties in more detail tonight. I hear you..... you are saying the drippers you just prefer for tasting purposes, got it. Have a good evening Wonner!!

 

[CountryTime]

Is this basically what you are recommending?
AGA-T2 Rebuildable Atomizer Tank - Gensis Style - AltSmoke

 

[wonner]

Just to clarify. That is how I use dripping atomizers. Some folks use them all of the time, and there are some nice rebuildable drippers (RDAs) that can be used all day if you don't mind dripping. And most of the same choices for wick and wire.

Again, the choices and opinions are as varied as the people who vape.

Good luck.

 

[wonner]

Is this basically what you are recommending?
AGA-T2 Rebuildable Atomizer Tank - Gensis Style - AltSmoke

Yep. That is one of many that are out there, ranging in price from a little less to $150+.

You can search the forums here for a lot of info on the AGA-T2.

You will also find YouTube has a wealth of info on all of the stuff you are asking about.

 

[CountryTime]

Excellent man, I am now watching pBusardo's hour long show and review of the Genesis style AGA-T's....he is interviewing an ECF member about all the different ones and his experiences with wicks on the rebuilds. Ceramic keeps popping up. Seems I have a new subject to study now, much appreciation. All I really need to know is that I am on the correct path to start getting more flavor out of my eLiquids even if that does mean scrapping a bunch of equipment. I have enough parts to rebuild at least 4 different PT2s now and have 4 or 5 3.7v ego batteries, maybe I will put some of these together and sell a few to some friends. Be a killer starter to go with the PT2 instead of starting off on vision ce4s and such. Good stuff.

 

[wonner]

I can only tell you what works for me. I am not telling you to scrap anything and do it my way.

Protanks may work for you. For everything sold, there are lovers and haters.

Take what anyone says and see what makes sense to you.

 

[mokhann]

A) Looking for info on your thoughts as to what maybe I should drill down on in my coil rebuilds to help refine and optimize
flavor for my ejuices, ie...what combo have you settled on and are rebuilding consistently now for best flavor & vape production? (I will continue using my protanks for sure even after buying an RDA)

I've settled on a single microcoil at around 1.3ohm, wicked with organic cotton (from cotton balls)

B) If you agree that organic cotton is the best flavor medium for the PT2 rebuilds, can you offer any insight on exactly how
much wicking material to use for optimum performance/flavor?

I feel like this is something you really just need to play by ear. Not too much, not too little, is the only answer I can give

C) What exact make and model of RDA I should buy, not too cheap, not too expensive...and also maybe one that I could rebuild
using my above mentioned DIY rebuildable materials. Keep in mind that I am a bit of a noob with a lot of this stuff, I am only
about 6 weeks into doing work with coils here and there so keep this within your suggestion on the RDA, something I can hit
the ground running with.

The go-to seems to be something like the IGO-W. Personally, I'd have a look over at FastTech for a clone of one of the higher end RDAs. Something like this, perhaps.

E) You, RBA rebuilders....are you washing, rinsing and repeating your Ekowool, standard silica wick, peaches and creme yarn or
pure organic cotton? (I have yet to see this mentioned in any of the RBA videos I have seen on youtube)

I just use new wicking material.

F) When dripping for the purposes of sampling and trying multiple juices in a short period of time, are you guys rewicking or
are you using a flavor eraser?

I just re-wick. Haven't tried one of those flavour erasers, though I'm certainly interested.

 

[CountryTime]

Truly amazing how many different types of devices are out these days....and unfortunately there really just isn't a better way of going about things other than jumping in and finding out what you like and learning what you don't like. Interesting though, like for me...finally getting off ce4s and on to a bottom coil like the protank was like a light bulb moment....like YESSS!!! and I have been trying to squeeze blood from the turnip trying to make the protank better and I can now officially say that for ME? it's just not happening. I can rebuild coils all day long that put out plumes of vapor, but when it comes to flavor production I just cant do anything with cotton wicks that will keep holding up high flavor levels. So, with that all said you guys have already got me on the right track, for sure. I needed a new subject anyway....so yeah.... I am going to pick up on a decent atomizer...but I am in no massive hurry...I will spend some more time doing some research. So far, I have read reviews and watched videos on the Genesis atty as well as the Igo-W. Can't wait to get one soon though. I do know that going the RBA route is right for me, because I love rebuilding coils, working with wick and wire. Lot of fun.

So, is it pretty safe to generally assume that with either of these two atomizers (or most RBA's for that matter) that I will get better and more sustained flavor out of my eLiquids? Over say what I am used to with the Protanks and such? The PT2 puts out amazing flavor and vape production the day you pop a new coil on it, as I mentioned previously.....it's just a matter of how long the PT bottom coil with OEM or customized wick can sustain that same flavor level. Is this what made either of you move to using atomizers? What lead you to switching to atty's? Was it chasing flavor like myself, the challenge of rebuildables, etc, etc. or a lil bit of all of the above? I guess as of right now I am kind of wondering what it is inherently, or about the nature of atomizers like these that lends itself to enhanced flavor production in juices (as compared to say...a bottom fed tank, or even a dual coil pt3).

I feel good at least knowing that I am now at least moving in the right direction in my next step. It is so frustrating to hit a brand new full tank of some well-steeped ejuice and the taste just knocks your socks off, only to then have that taste diminish hit by hit. Like chasing that first crack hit, as they say....lol. With the PT2 "you will be chasing that first hit the rest of your life". Goodbye PT1....goodbye PT2.....goodbye old friends.

 

[Blueeddie1]

A lot of great information here, I'm also trying to decide on an atty, but I think I'd get over dripping all the time pretty quick. I like having a cart around to sample with though. After I saw the New Aero Tank From Kanger in another ECF thread. I will need to add it to the collection too.

(if you can link to the other post that would be great)


2014 Latest Kangertech Aero Bdc Glassomizer Kanger Aero Tank - Buy Kanger Aero Tank,Kangertech Aero Bdc Glassomize,Aero Tank Product on Alibaba.com

 

[nmackan]

All these extreme pin points and explanations I am no fit to suggest methods. But as I did with serious problems basic mathematics (sub both alternatives and see) you should not wait too long with one atomiser head. Use it a day, change and leave it to dry. after that apply dry burn. You will see an unwanted smoke do it until smoke ceases to exist and use it while other dries and so on. If you have more than 2 atomiser heads better wait 2 days to dry

 

[CountryTime]

Just pulled the trigger on a Youde (UD) AGA-T3 Genesis Atomizer. I think this one will be a really good starter RBA for me and I also like the fact that I can run it as a tank (with vertical wick and coil) or lay a wick down horizontally on the deck and use it as a dripper. Should be a good device for me to get some more experience in rebuilding and hopefully will bring me that much closer to getting the best possible flavor out of my eJuices. I picked up some extra 400 ss mesh also. I plan on starting out doing some eKowool wraps, then trying a few cotton ones, followed by the mesh wicks. I haven't spent much time at all on learning how to rebuild them or anything just yet, but I did seem to see a few threads with people having difficulty running ceramic wicks with this one.... I will have to do some testing on this myself and see what happens. Ceramic certainly sounds interesting.

I also picked up some Boge Cartomizers in 2.0ohm as well, as was suggested....and I am interested to check these out as I have heard from several people just how well they do in terms of flavor production. Thanks for all the suggestions and insight to all of you, much appreciated....have lots of vapemail coming in the next few days....can't wait. After BlackFriday and Cyber Monday I am pretty much stocked up on liquids for about the next 6 months.

CT

 

[Racehorse]

Let us know what you ended up liking. There are some good shops in Tulsa area

 

[Blueeddie1]

Let us know what you ended up liking. There are some good shops in Tulsa area

what do you recommend?

 

[GoodNews!]

For me, trying out the Cisco 3.5ohm was the "YES!" moment for me - the Cisco simply would give me the strong flavors I actually smelled in my juices. My rum juice smells like rum and when optimal, tastes like it too! I never settled with this "cotton candy with a touch of Koolaid" flavor that other devices give this particular juice, I know it is a strong juice and when I dripped in the Cisco, the flavor packed a punch, a kick, and a tap dance; not that it was harsh or anything, it was 3.5ohm's, so very smooth. This flavor was made by the manufacturer to be wet and juicy, strong and thick (as I called them up myself) and they told me the light, fluffy, sugary flavor I was getting was nowhere near what they intended - yet on the Cisco, I finally got what they described.

The one thing about the Cisco is that it's 3.5ohms yet seems to be a microcoil, so you may have luck with trying for something much higher ohm'ed. Personally, at least from my experience (couldn't tell you if it's fact or just bizarre happenings) but every coil head I've tried under 2.8, at the very best[/I (and even that was rare), just gives me a very cotton-candy, plain-sugar taste, either because the ohm's are too hot, or because of bad builds. Then again though, you want your coil at just the right temperature so it doesn't gunk up quick - gunking and carbon buildup is a huge cause of loss of flavor.

Also, don't be afraid of silica - I could have sworn silica was my enemy, yet on the Cisco, it worked wonders, couldn't taste even a tinge of it. Silica really doesn't seem to do well in all those replaceable head devices, but in a really good, American-made coil, it seems to do fine.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Too many questions for me, sorry.....

For the first RBA, the RSST is the go to device. Easy to wick and coil. I like mesh. Worked first time, and every time. I prefer bottom coil silica/cotton wraps, so the Kayfun, or it's many copies is my favorite. Also easy and quick, and the vape I like (YMMV). Good luck!

 

[catalinaflyer]

For the first RBA, the RSST is the go to device. Easy to wick and coil. I like mesh. Worked first time, and every time.

+1!! on the RSST, a stellar first RBA device and even though I have a collection of much more expensive vapor delivery devices I still go back to my RSST all the time. 500 stainless mesh coil with a 28ga Kanthal wrap at .8 ohms - pure vaping bliss!!!

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'll save you a little time…

Please visit these two threads…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

Flavor and vapor output overall are about power applied and resistance. Cooking is about the closest analogy to vaping there is. But just as in the culinary arts you must have the physics correct, you can't fool mother nature.

There is no "preferred". There is what you will come to know and enjoy. But you need to have the precise kitchen tools to get there. Guessing at the selection won't do it. And the pan that worked for Joe is just that, a guess, "I ate at Tom, .... and Harry's." I get so tired of the you just have to try it I constantly hear as the mantra on this forum. There is a mechanical ideal…which so happens to suit your tastes. Learn how to build towards that ideal and you begin to answer your own questions. First step is to optimize your skills at achieving those objectives of power and resistance. Then you have the means, the necessary pen and paper, to write your recipe.

You may have to try it and the above posters are correct in that. But your money, time and enjoyment will be much better served when you are prepared to articulate your choices technically.

So bypass the smorgasbord and get what you want.

Good luck! Happy Holidays.

 

[CountryTime]

I'll save you a little time…

Please visit these two threads…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

Flavor and vapor output overall are about power applied and resistance. Cooking is about the closest analogy to vaping there is. But just as in the culinary arts you must have the physics correct, you can't fool mother nature.

There is no "preferred". There is what you will come to know and enjoy. But you need to have the precise kitchen tools to get there. Guessing at the selection won't do it. And the pan that worked for Joe is just that, a guess, "I ate at Tom, .... and Harry's." I get so tired of the you just have to try it I constantly hear as the mantra on this forum. There is a mechanical ideal…which so happens to suit your tastes. Learn how to build towards that ideal and you begin to answer your own questions. First step is to optimize your skills at achieving those objectives of power and resistance. Then you have the means, the necessary pen and paper, to write your recipe.

You may have to try it and the above posters are correct in that. But your money, time and enjoyment will be much better served when you are prepared to articulate your choices technically.

So bypass the smorgasbord and get what you want.

Good luck! Happy Holidays.

Absolutely well said my good man....and yeah I hear you loud and clear. So glad you chimed in, I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts man. The Protank Microcoil Discussion is brilliant, and I have read a ton of it so far. I haven't given up by any means and the last two days I have put out some of my best work yet. Now that I do finally have 4 different wicking mediums and 3 gauges of wire, I have been able to do lots of little experiments. So far what is working for me the best has been the 30g 9/8 wrapped micro-coil on a 5/64th drill bit using organic cotton...and hitting it with between 5 and 6.5volts. Took me a lot of builds to finally get them correct and I have finally worked out 95% of the little kinks I started out with. I am going to keep on keeping on though and see what else I can come up with. I am also going to take your advice and try out the XC-132 for sure. One thing I am doing right now, is building coils using different guages of kanthal and wraps, and then putting them all in 3 different protanks at the same time so I can better compare the results.

There for a couple of days, I was starting to think I was never going to get it down....my microcoils looked so nice and I was so proud of them, then for all the above stated reasons, go to vape it and BLEHHH. lol So, I have come a long way since I started and have been enjoying the challenge of it all a lot. Having a lot of fun with it all so far. I will start chiming in here on the micro coil thread shortly once I get a bit more results logged. I have been taking notes, so I will let you all know what ends up working the best for me overall.

I get my first RBA in the mail tomorrow, I bought the Youde AGA-T3 (genesis) and plan on doing lots of builds with it. I bought a bunch of 400ss mesh, but plan on doing some builds with everything else I have as well to see what all I can come up with there. Anyway, keep the posts coming....I've been a long time lurker....but will start chiming in a bit more in the upcoming future when I have more detailed/quantitative notes and results. Thanks again for your comments and a Happy Holidays to you and yours as well MacTechVPR!

CT