Cheap, cheap, cheap juice.

[DevilFishPhil]

Pardon my ignorance, but to a certain extent Randy's point is valid. Ultimately if the government lifts the ban on the sale of nic juice it's going to be on their terms, their regulations, their approved points of sale, their pricing, their taxes, etc. I don't want to undermine the value of ECTA but I have a hard time seeing how Health Canada, a federal organization whose purpose is to regulate and approve the use of of products would accept that an organization comprised of vendors and a chemist, set the regulations of a product classified as a Schedule F drug.

 

[kanadiankat]

Pardon my ignorance, but to a certain extent Randy's point is valid. Ultimately if the government lifts the ban on the sale of nic juice it's going to be on their terms, their regulations, their approved points of sale, their pricing, their taxes, etc. I don't want to undermine the value of ECTA but I have a hard time seeing how Health Canada, a federal organization whose purpose is to regulate and approve the use of of products would accept that an organization comprised of vendors and a chemist, set the regulations of a product classified as a Schedule F drug.

....and there in lies the secrets to our success! (haha). ...and that's all I can say right now (play by play will be available only AFTER the game is won)....

I won't say more - except that nicotine is not a schedule F when in eliquid at the concentrations in the market today. It's clearly and legally separated by a legislative act that HC proposed and backed and lobbied for.

And inter-industry regulation is something the entire Canadian Government has been backing and encouraging for some time now. ....

 

[DevilFishPhil]

Well I'm definitely looking forward to the day the curtain will be pulled, in the mean time the rest of us are left to speculate but thank you Kat for giving us hope

 

[Ms. Creant]

Ecta, sounds a lot like the COR program, which (I believe) is only in Alberta. The COR was started for the construction industry but is now open to any type of business. The COR is a peer reviewed certification program under which a company must adhere to a minimum of safety standards, equipment maintenance, training and record keeping. Every so often you get reviewed by a peer in your industry and every so often you do the review of another company. You show your records of ongoing training, new hire orientation, accident/incident records, SOP's, hazard assessments and mitigations etc. The audit forms are developed by and submitted to the certifying body for review and you must have a passing audit in order to remain certified.

Some clients will not hire your company to work on their site/property unless you are COR certified. This would be the equivalent of not buying e-liquid from a vendor that is not ECTA certified.

 

[cactusgirl]

Phil, there are plenty of self-regulated industries here in Canada that each have their own compliance practices...Brokerage Industry, Nurses, Doctors, Chiropractors, just to name a few. It's not really that far-fetched to believe that the ECig industry can also become a self-regulated body.

Pardon my ignorance, but to a certain extent Randy's point is valid. Ultimately if the government lifts the ban on the sale of nic juice it's going to be on their terms, their regulations, their approved points of sale, their pricing, their taxes, etc. I don't want to undermine the value of ECTA but I have a hard time seeing how Health Canada, a federal organization whose purpose is to regulate and approve the use of of products would accept that an organization comprised of vendors and a chemist, set the regulations of a product classified as a Schedule F drug.

 

[DevilFishPhil]

I completely agree, I just can't shake the "power in numbers" mentality. It's a lot easier to have a self-regulated industry recognized when the number of members hovers in the thousands instead of the dozen...

I'm still optimistic though

Phil, there are plenty of self-regulated industries here in Canada that each have their own compliance practices...Brokerage Industry, Nurses, Doctors, Chiropractors, just to name a few. It's not really that far-fetched to believe that the ECig industry can also become a self-regulated body.

 

[martinc]

I say a reccurence of the same subject here Mr.V.

Care to divuldge your agenda with the rest of us mere addicts?

 

[Song]

Pardon my ignorance, but to a certain extent Randy's point is valid. Ultimately if the government lifts the ban on the sale of nic juice it's going to be on their terms, their regulations, their approved points of sale, their pricing, their taxes, etc. I don't want to undermine the value of ECTA but I have a hard time seeing how Health Canada, a federal organization whose purpose is to regulate and approve the use of of products would accept that an organization comprised of vendors and a chemist, set the regulations of a product classified as a Schedule F drug.

like kat said nicotine in the concentrations u find in eliquids is not a schedue F drug, else you woudn't be able to buy your patches , gums and cigarettes themselves.

 

[RandyL]

Keep in mind, the companies that own the patches, gums and cigarettes themselves have millions upon millions to spend to help keep nic juice banned. That alone is a huge hurdle to try and jump over. Something like this could wind up in the courts or caught up in red tape for years.

 

[kanadiankat]

Keep in mind, the companies that own the patches, gums and cigarettes themselves have millions upon millions to spend to help keep nic juice banned. That alone is a huge hurdle to try and jump over. Something like this could wind up in the courts or caught up in red tape for years.

And those companies spend several of their million getting HC to sponsor legislation that allows them to sell their products at walmart and convenience stores - anywhere - to anyone without restrictions or additional taxes.

All that dough worked well - the legislation exists.

No courts required (though a dozen lawyers frothing at the mouth and hoping.... ha ha).

Wouldn't it be egg on the face if a gov official had to admit that a change in Canada's law code was paid for by a single company with the understanding that it would only apply to them??!

 

[RandyL]

Several millions....... my point exactly. Believe me, I want to see this all go through, but I'm a realist and I know that its gonna take more than just a handful of vendors to do it. You said earlier that we are only going to know the specifics "After the game is won" , so basically everyone will be left in the dark as to whats going on. Here's a more realistic approach.... Get a sponsoring company like Dekang on board, someone who does have the millions to get their product on the shelves. That may mean that only Dekang can be sold but at least its a start. It will allow juice to be sold openly. The down fall is that all other juice makers are out of business. Which opens up another question... is the goal to try and get nic juice sold openly in Canada or is it to allow Canadian companies to make their own juice or to just allow nic juice to be sold by anyone, anywhere. So many questions and scenarios. Also, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was already a tobacco manufacturer working on getting this passed as well and have some sort of monopoly on the industry....or it will be like ......... and will never happen..... who knows. Starting to wonder if its best to let sleeping dogs lie..... Has HC made any other statements since march 2009? That's pushing 3 years ago. Keep in mind, I knew nothing about electronic cigarettes up until 5 months ago so maybe I have no clue about what I'm talking about.

 

[northhar]

I find it's not good to

let sleeping dogs lie

they usually wake up mean and hungry..

I think all that was said is good news..

 

[wreimer]

Ummm....Ahhh....Hmmm....

Nope. Still can't make out a friggin thing the OP was trying to say...

Oh well ( as he picks up his Stealth & Ody, full of DIY juice)...

 

[MadValleyVapingMama]

I don't want to see only Dekang available. Can't really see how/why they would sink millions into our market to open it up for us. On a biz stand point I would only do that if I had a guaranteed monopoly for x number of years. That can't be guaranteed. What it would do is push the Canadian market further underground for the x number of years. They (Canadian Vendors) would still have their sales.

Canadian vapers are not going to roll over & die, nor are our vendors.

I would love to see a tobacco manufacturer get on board, not holding my breath on it though. When it happen, I think it will be a small one that does.

Vaping in Canada is not going away, no matter what HC, Pharmaceutical & Tobacco Cos want.

Just my

 

[kanadiankat]

Several millions....... my point exactly. Believe me, I want to see this all go through, but I'm a realist and I know that its gonna take more than just a handful of vendors to do it. You said earlier that we are only going to know the specifics "After the game is won" , so basically everyone will be left in the dark as to whats going on. Here's a more realistic approach.... Get a sponsoring company like Dekang on board, someone who does have the millions to get their product on the shelves. That may mean that only Dekang can be sold but at least its a start. It will allow juice to be sold openly. The down fall is that all other juice makers are out of business. Which opens up another question... is the goal to try and get nic juice sold openly in Canada or is it to allow Canadian companies to make their own juice or to just allow nic juice to be sold by anyone, anywhere. So many questions and scenarios. Also, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was already a tobacco manufacturer working on getting this passed as well and have some sort of monopoly on the industry....or it will be like ......... and will never happen..... who knows. Starting to wonder if its best to let sleeping dogs lie..... Has HC made any other statements since march 2009? That's pushing 3 years ago. Keep in mind, I knew nothing about electronic cigarettes up until 5 months ago so maybe I have no clue about what I'm talking about.

Maybe that wasn't clear - the millions were already spent to pass a body of legislation that permits the sale of nicotine (at 4mg or less per dosage unit @ = 38-40mg/ml in eliquid) to anyone - anywhere without restrictions or additional taxes. It was meant to be for pharma companies.

The law was passed, activated and has been in practise for a few years now. There is no longer any need to spend a dime (plus - it's illegal for a company - any company to pay for a specific law - ergo - the impossibility of now limiting that law to a particular company or product).

Canada's vendors are all small and very small businesses - there are no millions to be spent. If that law wasn't already in play - ecig vendors would have no hope at all.

Basically this - we have a body of laws that permits eliquid. The laws exist - they don't need to be drawn up. It doesn't matter now who was supposed to benefit - it is not legal to make a law to benefit a single product or corporation - a law is a law and it's applied equally to everyone.

And don't worry about not knowing what's happened since 2009 - there has been a lot and it's been frustrating and it would take a forum to go over it all. But there are no sleeping dogs. If vendors do not work together now - it's unlikely there will be a tomorrow for this industry.