Cheaper than Johnson creek, but with the same taste.

[vjtk]

I'm a big fan of Johnson Creek, but their juice is very expensive. I'm basically tired of sending all my money to this company, as it turns out I'm already spending 1.25/day on liquid.

I'm looking into some DIY alternatives, but want the JCO flavor, if I can manage it. I currently buy unflavored 48mg liquid and mix it 1 part to 2 parts JCO 24/mg. I like it strong.

Anyway, I'd like to buy some unflavored 24/mg, and mix with the 48mg, then add my own JCO-like flavoring. Any of you veterans know how to guide a beginner in this area?

 

[MaxUT]

JCO = Johnson Creek Original ?

I believe Kate51 has some experience in that area. You might ask her.

 

[vjtk]

thank you! I will PM her.

 

[Kate51]

Hi, vjtk, this is the long sought after recipe after JCO began to make their formula from
non-tobacco ingredients; it was originally done with tobacco absolute, and I loved it so much! I needed a VG based juice and they stopped making that too for awhile. I am not a fan of the new formulas.
My actual recipe and methods along with sources for flavorings are all in Post #9 in that thread. Lots of talk at the time.....I've been using this ever since, more than a year now! It's still my all day every day juice.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/35494-johnson-creek-original-anyone.html

Questions, ask away!

JUST AN ADDED NOTE: I don't use the "Blond" Absolute anymore, just the Rustica, and now I use my EM/grain alcohol solution to "cut" the Absolute, rather than adding the two separately. Now the Tobacco "mix" and the EM "mix" are in one solution, so I've adjusted the amount of Tobacco "mix" to 1 ml. Instead of ½ml Tobacco+ ½ml EM.
You still have to process the EM separately. I prefer the crystalized Ethyl Maltol, because in grain alcohol the solution is an optimal 12½% in suspension. In VG, for example, the pre-made liquid form, the optimum solution is about 10%. In water, it's even lower % in suspension. EM is a wonderful flavor enhancer, so I like to use the highest % I can get.
Hope I'm not confusing everyone, remember that Recipe is over a year old. Sometimes along the way you can find shortcuts that make DIY even easier, less hassle.

 

[Switched]

Did ya stumble on the Tennessee cure recipe by any chance?

 

[Kate51]

That recipe can be used for the JC Tennessee Cured flavor, just leave out the
Caramel extract and add the same amount extra Nicotiana rustica mix, and
a drop of BlackPepper Oil extract (tiny!!) for extra punch.
The most expensive thing is the Tobacco Absolute, and the Rustica is the very best for flavor you can get ~ a 15ml bottle is $36+ shipping but lasts me a long long time. It is a heavenly aroma, never "ash tray".

http://www.wingedseed.com/Merchant2...ore_Code=SB&Product_Code=15322&Category_Code=

 

[Switched]

Is the consistency of the absolute the same as PA's consistency? I know flavours are largely different so when we want to duplicate and original, we need to acquire the right ingredients. I just need to know the consistency of the absolute wrt what size to order.

 

[Kate51]

I don't know what PA is??
The Nicotiana rustica Absolute is thick, very sticky, the consistency of pine tar, and if gets on your fingers you can smell it for days! For optimum suspension it must be "cut"(thinned) with grain alcohol, I use 190 Proof 95% EverClear (white lightening). It's the only thing that works effectively, as a solvent.
The way I measure it is to let the vial sit in some hot water for a few minutes so it flows easier, and then use a little 10ml beaker with 1ml markings, and pour it from it's vial into the beaker, and then add my †Ethyl Malto/Grain alcohol solution to mix in the beaker. No muss, no fuss. Very accurate. I got my beaker on eBay for about $10, they're kind of expensive, but they stand up by themselves and are really handy. It's a little bigger around than a pencil, and 8" tall.

I use 2ml of of concentrated rustica to 5ml of EM solution, this is my "tobacco mix". I then add just a tiny "pinch" of pure Menthol (crystal form), not enough to taste it but enough to "cool" the flavor.
I usually make a double or triple batch, that way I don't have to mix a new batch everytime I need juice, I put it in a bottle of it's own, ready to use. By with my recipe, that bottle will make Twenty-one 10ml batches of juice. This flavoring is then subjective, some people like stronger, so you can increase or decrease the ratio of AB:EM to personal taste/aroma, but the ratio of ingredients I used stays fairly true to JCO™.

When I make a 10ml batch of juice (that lasts me about 5-7 days), I use only 1ml of this "mix" to my ECOpure Krystal(36mg/ml nic) +ECOpure Mixer (no nic) to give me 12mg/ml nicotine content, then add ½ml each of Caramel and Hazelnut extract full strength.
ECOpure is VG, by the way, MHO the BEST! Absolute is extremely potent, as you can see from the ratio, and as I said one 15ml bottle of Rustica lasts me a long, long time, more than a year. I'm now working on my second bottle!

I like a nice mild balance of flavor between Rustica/caramel/hazelnut. The hazelnut flavoring is one of the basic flavors in JCO and in Tenn Cured. The "Old" formula, that is. I have no idea what they use now. When it's mixed right, you should be able to just "pick out" each of the three flavors, but one is not more prevalent that the other two. That's "balance"! And Yummy!

†The Ethyl Maltol in grain alcohol is a 12½% solution, that's the strongest you can make it. If you dissolve it in any other liquid the percentage goes down. I use EM to "meld" the tobacco flavor, it soothes the high bitters and enhances the low "grassy" flavor of the absolute. More palatable to me, you really can tell the difference without it. Tobacco without EM is very harsh, and with other varieties of tobacco Absolutes can be severely "ash tray"!

 

[Kate51]

Another thing to remember is that I use an 801 set-up....different atomizers and battery V's do change juice flavors!!! All the above information is based on 801 atomizer/3.7 battery temps.
I've used an 801 from the beginning, now using the "new" Bauway 801 Cartomizers from MadVapes, and LOVE them with my 3.7v Janty/Joye Stick! I can go all day with two batteries before having to refill.

 

[Switched]

I don't know what PA is??
The Nicotiana rustica Absolute is thick, very sticky, the consistency of pine tar, and if gets on your fingers you can smell it for days! For optimum suspension it must be "cut"(thinned) with grain alcohol, I use 190 Proof 95% EverClear (white lightening). It's the only thing that works effectively, as a solvent.
The way I measure it is to let the vial sit in some hot water for a few minutes so it flows easier, and then use a little 10ml beaker with 1ml markings, and pour it from it's vial into the beaker, and then add my †Ethyl Malto/Grain alcohol solution to mix in the beaker. No muss, no fuss. Very accurate. I got my beaker on eBay for about $10, they're kind of expensive, but they stand up by themselves and are really handy. It's a little bigger around than a pencil, and 8" tall.

I use 2ml of of concentrated rustica to 5ml of EM solution, this is my "tobacco mix". I then add just a tiny "pinch" of pure Menthol (crystal form), not enough to taste it but enough to "cool" the flavor.
I usually make a double or triple batch, that way I don't have to mix a new batch everytime I need juice, I put it in a bottle of it's own, ready to use. By with my recipe, that bottle will make Twenty-one 10ml batches of juice. This flavoring is then subjective, some people like stronger, so you can increase or decrease the ratio of AB:EM to personal taste/aroma, but the ratio of ingredients I used stays fairly true to JCO™.

When I make a 10ml batch of juice (that lasts me about 5-7 days), I use only 1ml of this "mix" to my ECOpure Krystal(36mg/ml nic) +ECOpure Mixer (no nic) to give me 12mg/ml nicotine content, then add ½ml each of Caramel and Hazelnut extract full strength.
ECOpure is VG, by the way, MHO the BEST! Absolute is extremely potent, as you can see from the ratio, and as I said one 15ml bottle of Rustica lasts me a long, long time, more than a year. I'm now working on my second bottle!

I like a nice mild balance of flavor between Rustica/caramel/hazelnut. The hazelnut flavoring is one of the basic flavors in JCO and in Tenn Cured. The "Old" formula, that is. I have no idea what they use now. When it's mixed right, you should be able to just "pick out" each of the three flavors, but one is not more prevalent that the other two. That's "balance"! And Yummy!

†The Ethyl Maltol in grain alcohol is a 12½% solution, that's the strongest you can make it. If you dissolve it in any other liquid the percentage goes down. I use EM to "meld" the tobacco flavor, it soothes the high bitters and enhances the low "grassy" flavor of the absolute. More palatable to me, you really can tell the difference without it. Tobacco without EM is very harsh, and with other varieties of tobacco Absolutes can be severely "ash tray"!

Another thing to remember is that I use an 801 set-up....different atomizers and battery V's do change juice flavors!!! All the above information is based on 801 atomizer/3.7 battery temps.
I've used an 801 from the beginning, now using the "new" Bauway 801 Cartomizers from MadVapes, and LOVE them with my 3.7v Janty/Joye Stick! I can go all day with two batteries before having to refill.

Cool the consistency of pine tar = something I can understand and the same consistency as Perfumer's Apprentice's (PA) TA.

This is my source for blonde http://www.aromatherapywebsite.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EO-1985

and rustica Samara Botane Aromatic Apothecary: TOBACCO ABSOLUTE

 

[nubee]

Question, on the original JCO post, you mention calibrating the drop/ml to 20 drops/ml but in the recipe you have 1/2ml of <this> or 20 drops????

Am I missing something as the math isn't working for me

 

[Kate51]

Thanks for the "blond" link, Switched, I saved it, maybe will order again. But as I said in PM, it's not necessary to replicate the JCO™, so I just eliminated that one and stayed with Rustica. Now is know what you meant by PA! They've been really reaching out to DIY e-cig juicers, a great company!

 

[Kate51]

Hi, nubee, welcome!
I've always preferred using ml's measurements to using drops.....different liquids have different viscosity, and different droppers drop in different sized drops, so using a syringe, or pipettes, or beakers marked in ml's (or better yet, 1/10th of 1ml) are much more accurate measures. That's the reason I mentioned "calibrating" your droppers, always use the same one or identical droppers for ALL OF THE INGREDIENTS in the entire recipe to stay within the parameters of the recipe.
If you don't use a Recipe Calculator, I use this one:

eJuice Recipe Calculator

Just download it onto your DeskTop as a short-cut, and then play around with it a bit to see how it works. With this one, you can use either drops or ml's. Then PRINT out a hard copy of each of your recipes, for accurate duplication later on. I'm old, so I have to write things down!

Since this Recipe is a specific "Replication" of Johnson Creek Original™, or as close as I could get!, it's kind of important in this case. Not so much for your own DIY projects.

[edit] We had people trying to replicate the recipe using droppers that were measuring 40 drops = 1ml, some got 20 drops = 1ml. But not so true with different viscosities in liquids! Some Brands of VG's are thicker than others, and you will get different nicotine density than you wanted (too strong or not strong enough) etc. So that's another reason for using the Recipe Calculator for a specific Formula. With ECOpure VG, I don't have to add additional water for optimum vapor, for example. With your brand of nic/plain liquid, either PG or VG, you may have to add water. Hope that explains it clearly.

 

[nubee]

I just did some "window" shopping and noticed the following on the Perfumer's Apprentice site....

Ethyl Maltol Liquid (10% PG) base note sugar caramel cotton candy
This is the same Tobacco Absolute described above, diluted to 50% in pure 190 proof grain alcohol

Would these put me close to the "Original" without having to mix up bases on my own????

 

[Switched]

I just did some "window" shopping and noticed the following on the Perfumer's Apprentice site....

Ethyl Maltol Liquid (10% PG) base note sugar caramel cotton candy
This is the same Tobacco Absolute described above, diluted to 50% in pure 190 proof grain alcohol

Would these put me close to the "Original" without having to mix up bases on my own????

It might. But in my experience, when duplicating a recipe, as in this case, towards a known flavour, we should use the ingredients listed by the recipe owner. All flavours are not created equal, that is why. If we take for example PTA's caramel, it taste more like maple syrup than caramel, to me anyway. I screwed up a 30ml bottle of juice that way, thinking it was the same as FA, it was not. The juice wasn't bad, just not what I expected.

 

[nubee]

It might. But in my experience, when duplicating a recipe, as in this case, towards a known flavour, we should use the ingredients listed by the recipe owner. All flavours are not created equal, that is why. If we take for example PTA's caramel, it taste more like maple syrup than caramel, to me anyway. I screwed up a 30ml bottle of juice that way, thinking it was the same as FA, it was not. The juice wasn't bad, just not what I expected.

Agreed and good point. Don't mean to take away anything from the original creator at all.

 

[Switched]

Was meant for everyone Nubee, and not directly directed towards you.

 

[Kate51]

I wasted sooo much money, trying different flavors, but when you use them some were so weak they didn't give much flavor, or cut back on vapor (some essential oils especially do not work well! and some should not be used for health concerns, hazardous or toxic) so yes, a lot of people were contributing sources....but also, now companies like Perfumers' Apprentice have stepped up with some quality DIY supplies and flavors, so they've come a long way in the last months. Finding ingredients (concentrated extracts and good absolutes)that don't require using a large measurement so to not affect vapor production is not easy.
Bottom line is I guess if you are looking for a specific taste/aroma for your juice you still have to do some experimenting and money spending!
I figured out loosely my first successful 10ml batch of juice probably cost me $300, conservatively. And have had a cupboard full of things I couldn't use.
So I stick with what I know works well and doesn't poison you.
We still have to watch out for inferior products and share the experience. I claim no copyrights or kudos, e-cig juice is rather difficult to replicate, it turned out, back then espeicially when no commercial companies were using VG, and I have big problems using PG. I almost gave up trying, it was getting so costly.

 

[rockyroad]

Thanks very much for the recipe Kate. I still need to get the malto crystals and fear that the vg I am using at the moment may not be of the best quality. It seems that I will need to dilute the crystals in the same manner as you do with moonshine. The pg is not working well with my mouth it seems. Best place to buy the crystals and vg of the best quality?? would be great to shop at the same site for both.
Another question with the Nicotiana Rustica if you will please. I mixed a tooth pick head amount in vg(about 80 percent) 10 percent malto pg and 10 percent pg nic...3 drops splendex. I really like the flavor of this as is, but I am getting a sharp tingle on the roof of my mouth from it and my lips are acting as if they are becoming chapped (what it feels like) but they are not chapped. Could this be the 20 percent of pg or have you heard of the rustica causing any of this?? I know I'm not in a doctors office so just asking if you may know of or heard of any of these type things going on in other peoples experiences.

 

[Kate51]

For VG, I use ECOpure Krystal, 36mg/ml, and use ECOpure 'mixer' no nic to cut it. You can get small quantities stateside from Cignot.com, there may be more suppliers now, but I got mine from Intellicig UK, you can buy Bulk 500ml jugs from them. $200 minimum order, shipping about $50, must be pre-approved at Intellicig. It's a top quality VG, and has deionized water added. It's exactly the right viscosity. A little more expensive than generic VG, but even so, I can make a 30ml batch for about $6, all expenses and all ingredients included. The initial investment is a killer though!
I wouldn't say the Rustica is causing you a problem, that's what PG does to me too. I feel like I'm choking with that, lung pain, sore throat and chest, etc. But rustica may be milder when you get it cut and mix it into the VG. It's pretty potent as is. A very little goes a long way, doesn't it!! Yummy stuff.
VG should help. Still, drink lots of water.