What if somebody bought something in the classys that is no longer available? How are they going to know the retail price. I'll say it again. Do we really need another rule?
Classified Suggestions & Questions
- Thread starter j0ker
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What if somebody bought something in the classys that is no longer available? How are they going to know the retail price. I'll say it again. Do we really need another rule?
Could we please add Thailnd to the list of countries instead of having to select other. Thank you. 
As previously stated, "good price" is another way of bumping someone's thread. The reason "bad price" isn't allowed is because of what when ensue immediately after the post, aurguing and fighting, then members being banned. Trust me, I know because it's happened numerous times and still occasionally happens!
Basically, the Classifieds section isn't meant to be a discussion or debating sub-forum, so comments that induce discussions other than the sell of the item is prohibited. Yeah there is an ongoing debate over pricing in the Classifieds and I agree with some of that thought but oldsoldier best explained it in this quote.
"Make a searchable database that is updated daily with the current retail price of every e-cigarette (standard and APV) in existence from every manufacturer and every reseller on the internet. This database must include all prices and calculate average retail price (pre-shipping) and provide the standard deviation. Of course the hundreds of thousands of entries must be checked daily for price changes and whoever maintains the database must be watching 24/7 for new websites and removing ones that have closed."
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-vape-gear-ecf-needs-stop-4.html#post7185409
Could we please add Thailnd to the list of countries instead of having to select other. Thank you.
Consider it done....
i don't think i agree will the database reasoning. we have the report button. seems like members would be the manpower for blatant profiteering
You misunderstand....the point is how do we make the judgement other than having something to refer to? I can't just go in and say "Ahh...I think that's too much, you're are now banned for profiteering" There must be something cut and dry and must apply to every single post or it's not a fair rule.
Pressing the report button doesn't end there, staff members pick up from there and have to handle it. So pressing the report button, which takes less than 30 seconds, begins someone spending a minimum of 15 minutes of research and processing of that report. What if the device is obsolete? What if you find the item at 30 different sites? What if the price differs greatly between all these sites? What if the device was modified and now performs better? What if the finish on the item is custom? How much do we allow on batteries? Do we apply a depreciation on used items? Will it be different of various items? What will that depreciation rate be?
That is a small example of the problems with price policing. There are many more unanswered questions. There just isn't a simple solution!
I know my response may sound like I'm being an ... but honestly I don't mean it that way. See, I'm on the fence on this issue. I dislike the profiteering as much as any of you but I also know that creating the rule is a very slippery slope and will be nearly impossible to make it fair across the board. Don't take this as saying it won't ever happen but until a simple solution is designed, we won't be creating a pricing rule. If someone is blatantly overboard on their price, by all means report it. If they are frequent sellers of high priced items (supplier-ish behavior), by all means report it. Be careful though, don't flood reports in that may be deemed unnecessary.
i don't think i agree will the database reasoning. we have the report button. seems like members would be the manpower for blatant profiteering
but will you report somebody for selling something too cheaply also ?? in all fairness it will be required also
the database reasoning is spot on and the only viable and realistic way of preventing over charging ??
if you think scalping is bad here ? lol walk onto a used car lot some time
personally i think all sales in the classifieds should be open to all members ! no matter where or what country you live in
that $^#&^@ conus only is bordering on discrimination !!
It's not discrimination, it's the rights of the seller to sell to whom they choose. When it comes to selling an item, we all know how much more volatile it is to ship international. When packages cross the borders is sometimes impossible to track, so if the shipment is lost, somebody will lose and can be either the buyer or the seller. If the buyer files a complaint with PayPal, they could win and the seller loses. The buyer may never receive anything, package nor refund, so the buyer loses. We can't force a seller to sell to anyone, whether CONUS or not. If I were to sell international I would make the buyer completely aware that I will not be responsible for lost shipments, so in the end I would probably not offer international because it's not worth the gamble of one of us losing. Maybe that's an unpopular thought but I don't want either of us to lose. So what you are calling discrimination is actually called discretion.
What you are suggesting is this, I think:
You have an item for sale, let's say an APV for $350. I live in Farfarawayland. I agree to purchase the device and cover shipping cost but you would rather not ship to me but you have to. So you ship to me but the package never arrives (or does it?), so I file a complaint with PayPal stating the item never arrived. Unfortunately tracking failed and you have no proof the item was delivered, so PayPal sides with me issuing a refund. So you are left holding the bag, so to speak. Why would you want to be forced to sell to any location that request your item? Would you even consider listing your item if you had no discretion over who and where you sell your item?
It would be nice if the "Location" marker in the thread title reflected where the item would be shipped to, instead of where it's located. I think only about 1/3 of US auctions will ship globally, so it's really frustrated to have to go into a thread only to see I can't purchase it. I mean, who cares where it comes from? I'd rather know if I can buy it.
So, using your $350 APV. Let's say I'm in Canada (aka Farfarawayland) and would really like one. However, you're in the USA. I'm tired of the last few $350 APV threads marked (US) that I've opened, only to see that they'll only ship to US/US territories. Since your thread says (US) and I only search for (CA) items, we'll never find each other.
So, using your $350 APV. Let's say I'm in Canada (aka Farfarawayland) and would really like one. However, you're in the USA. I'm tired of the last few $350 APV threads marked (US) that I've opened, only to see that they'll only ship to US/US territories. Since your thread says (US) and I only search for (CA) items, we'll never find each other.
Ok, this thread is getting too busy, I'm going to have to shut it down
Kidding!Ok, I see your point but when the redesign was taking place it was decided to keep the titles as short as possible with as much pertinent information as possible. So it was decided that placing the location of the item being sold was chosen because something like this "(FS) (US, CA, UK, SG, PT, NL, GR, DE, TI) Latest Greatest APV" wouldn't be desirable. It would also be complicated to build into the form. I have been trying to get various quick links for searching the Classifieds and one of them will be "Where will I ship?", so this would resolve your issue. Unfortunately this is low priority on the techs that support the site. I wish I had an ETA on this but I'm sorry I don't.
I'm not going to post anymore after this on this subject, I promise
But in my opinion, you guys are looking a gift horse in the mouth. The Classifieds are not a money making thing for the people who own and run this site. They are for your convenience. Yes it would be nice to know the retail value, but as with any classifieds anywhere, this is free enterprise. If someone wants to scalp, so be it. And as Joker said, if there are complaints on a seller, as there will be if they scalp frequently, then the mods will deal with it. I consider ECF and the ECF Classifieds to be a privilege.
*steps off of high horse*
But in my opinion, you guys are looking a gift horse in the mouth. The Classifieds are not a money making thing for the people who own and run this site. They are for your convenience. Yes it would be nice to know the retail value, but as with any classifieds anywhere, this is free enterprise. If someone wants to scalp, so be it. And as Joker said, if there are complaints on a seller, as there will be if they scalp frequently, then the mods will deal with it. I consider ECF and the ECF Classifieds to be a privilege.
*steps off of high horse*
joker; Alaska and Hawaii are not CONUS and your reply does not fit in this category
for international there EMS with tracking and insurance ,,that protects the seller in all circumstances
i do agree that mailing juice with nicotine is a bad idea too
for international there EMS with tracking and insurance ,,that protects the seller in all circumstances
i do agree that mailing juice with nicotine is a bad idea too
I guess, instead of a big list like that, I would have different codes, like-
GLB (global) - for people who will send worldwide
NA (north america)
SA (South America)
EU (Europe)
etc... for people who will send intercontinental. When it finally gets around to having search functionality, you'd just have canada tagged as a search for (CA)+(NA)+(GLB) or something similar.
And then the country codes for those who will only ship inside US, Canada, etc. The rules already stipulate that everything is buyer beware and ECF isn't responsible for bad trades, so anything getting stopped at the border or whatever is already covered.
GLB (global) - for people who will send worldwide
NA (north america)
SA (South America)
EU (Europe)
etc... for people who will send intercontinental. When it finally gets around to having search functionality, you'd just have canada tagged as a search for (CA)+(NA)+(GLB) or something similar.
And then the country codes for those who will only ship inside US, Canada, etc. The rules already stipulate that everything is buyer beware and ECF isn't responsible for bad trades, so anything getting stopped at the border or whatever is already covered.
Sorry, I said CONUS because it was what I was replying to I should have said US/US Territories since that's the actual terminology used on the form.
Personally I've only used EMS once and it was successful. I have handled reports where EMS were used, two come to mind, where one the package arrived but was empty and had been opened at customs (had a customs tape to reseal) and another where the package never arrived and tracking failed to produce any results. Unfortunately I never heard back with results from those two incidents, so I have no idea how those turned out.
Well we need something, suggestions are welcome. I know all about the issues of discontinued or rare items and pricing. Maybe it would be best to try and attack the scalping one step at a time. Start with items that current prices are available for. If an Oddy v2 (just the ody w/o extras) is being sold for $300 then that should be addressed. Just a thought. I really dont care to see the people who don't know any better be taken advantage of. Are'nt we supposed to watch out for our fellow vapers? That's all I would to like to see happen. I would bet my bottom dollar that j0ker knows the fair price for 99% of the listings in the classifieds. But, unfortunately, j0ker's hands are tied on this issue. With any luck Houdini will magically untie the j0ker's hands and we can all enjoy a scalper free classified section. 
If you really want to help a fellow vaper and member and vendor here on ECF, you might consider donating to the Jennifer Cook Breast Cancer Fund. You can read her story here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/events-fundraising/323682-one-our-own-needs-our-help.html and click on my signature banner if you want to help. Thanks in advance.
Sorry j0ker. I need to get the word out any way I can.
Well we need something, suggestions are welcome. I know all about the issues of discontinued or rare items and pricing. Maybe it would be best to try and attack the scalping one step at a time. Start with items that current prices are available for. If an Oddy v2 (just the ody w/o extras) is being sold for $300 then that should be addressed. Just a thought. I really dont care to see the people who don't know any better be taken advantage of. Are'nt we supposed to watch out for our fellow vapers? That's all I would to like to see happen. I would bet my bottom dollar that j0ker knows the fair price for 99% of the listings in the classifieds. But, unfortunately, j0ker's hands are tied on this issue. With any luck Houdini will magically untie the j0ker's hands and we can all enjoy a scalper free classified section.
Big mistake betting your bottom dollar
Really though, most items I have no idea and to be honest, if I were going to buy something, I would just Google till I found it. This is what most should do before they buy anyway. I think a good portion do, if they don't, the price really doesn't matter anyway if the device has issues and they don't know. I think all should be educated on an item before considering spending any amount of money but that's just my opinion. This really isn't the issue, the issue is the people inflating the price well over retail and taking advantage of other members. It bothers me as it does mean of you. Let me be frank, if it were something manageable and within my power, I would send profiteers out of the Classified on their ASSES!
As we know though, this is a very slippery slope and almost impossible to regulate. Notice I said "almost". I haven't given up hope that something can be devised that will work but when that will be is the big question.Please don't give up and keep those thoughts rolling around in your head.
If you really want to help a fellow vaper and member and vendor here on ECF, you might consider donating to the Jennifer Cook Breast Cancer Fund. You can read her story here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/events-fundraising/323682-one-our-own-needs-our-help.html and click on my signature banner if you want to help. Thanks in advance.
Sorry j0ker. I need to get the word out any way I can.
No apology necessary.....This is a great cause folks. Anything you can do to help will be greatly appreciated I'm sure!
What follows is the result of watching acts of kindness carried out by members of this community and a personal experience I was fortunate to be a part of. Your thoughts and comments as to feasibility and approach
Background:
Times are difficult. While the cost of quality vaping devices continues to moderate, some vapers are having to make choices, faced with the loss or breakdown of even the most modest of devices. Also there are those who would like to quit analogues but dont have the means to start vaping. All of the above herein after being referred to as the Applicant.
On the other hand many of us have mods, batteries, tanks, cartos etc., which we have acquired as starters kits and accumulated over time, which are sitting at the bottom of drawers. In perfect working order they have little value as technology or style has rendered them obsolete (Kit).
An Idea:
In order assist those who need a hand up we wish to create the Vapers Clearinghouse (the VC) on the Electronic Cigarette Forum (the ECF).
The Vapers Clearinghouse:
The VC will act to match those with Kit willing to pledge it to the VC to those in need of replacement or a starters Kit.
➢ The VC will be domiciled on the ECF
➢ The VC will be a Sub Forum in the Classifieds
➢ The VC will be a virtual repository of surplus Kit.
➢ The inventory of the VC will be a list of Kit that will be committed by pledging individuals (the PI)
➢ The VC will be moderated by someone of the ECFs choosing
The Pledging Individual:
The PI will be a member of the ECF
➢ The PI will pledge Kit for gifting to Applicants
➢ The pledge will be for a minimum periods of up to 12 months.
➢ The pledge will be renewable at the owners option
➢ The PI will receive a discount coupon for making the Pledge from a participating supplier
➢ The PI will receive a designation on their profile
The Applicant:
The Applicant:
➢ Will be a person in need of Kit but without the means to buy Kit.
➢ Does not have to be an ECF member
➢ Will undertake to pledge Kit to the VC when he/she has the means to do so
The Sponsor:
The Sponsor understands that the VC is a matter of honesty and honour and will:
➢ Be a verified member of the ECF Classifieds
➢ Have satisfied themselves at their sole discretion that the Applicant is indeed a person in need of a hand up.
➢ The Sponsor will cover the shipping cost from the PI to the Applicant
➢ The Sponsor will receive a discount coupon for sponsoring an Applicant from a participating supplier
➢ The Sponsor will receive a designation on their profile
the Sponsor.
Background:
Times are difficult. While the cost of quality vaping devices continues to moderate, some vapers are having to make choices, faced with the loss or breakdown of even the most modest of devices. Also there are those who would like to quit analogues but dont have the means to start vaping. All of the above herein after being referred to as the Applicant.
On the other hand many of us have mods, batteries, tanks, cartos etc., which we have acquired as starters kits and accumulated over time, which are sitting at the bottom of drawers. In perfect working order they have little value as technology or style has rendered them obsolete (Kit).
An Idea:
In order assist those who need a hand up we wish to create the Vapers Clearinghouse (the VC) on the Electronic Cigarette Forum (the ECF).
The Vapers Clearinghouse:
The VC will act to match those with Kit willing to pledge it to the VC to those in need of replacement or a starters Kit.
➢ The VC will be domiciled on the ECF
➢ The VC will be a Sub Forum in the Classifieds
➢ The VC will be a virtual repository of surplus Kit.
➢ The inventory of the VC will be a list of Kit that will be committed by pledging individuals (the PI)
➢ The VC will be moderated by someone of the ECFs choosing
The Pledging Individual:
The PI will be a member of the ECF
➢ The PI will pledge Kit for gifting to Applicants
➢ The pledge will be for a minimum periods of up to 12 months.
➢ The pledge will be renewable at the owners option
➢ The PI will receive a discount coupon for making the Pledge from a participating supplier
➢ The PI will receive a designation on their profile
The Applicant:
The Applicant:
➢ Will be a person in need of Kit but without the means to buy Kit.
➢ Does not have to be an ECF member
➢ Will undertake to pledge Kit to the VC when he/she has the means to do so
The Sponsor:
The Sponsor understands that the VC is a matter of honesty and honour and will:
➢ Be a verified member of the ECF Classifieds
➢ Have satisfied themselves at their sole discretion that the Applicant is indeed a person in need of a hand up.
➢ The Sponsor will cover the shipping cost from the PI to the Applicant
➢ The Sponsor will receive a discount coupon for sponsoring an Applicant from a participating supplier
➢ The Sponsor will receive a designation on their profile
the Sponsor.
Thank you I'm hoping to get the proper guidance so we can do this correctly.
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