Classified Suggestions & Questions

[Scottitude]

In the last six weeks three of the sellers from whom I've purchased - and sent payment literally immediately after receiving their email addresses - failed to leave iTrader feedback.

I PMd each of them individually suggesting there must have been an oversight and politely asking them to post positive feedback. Only one of them complied. Maybe it's my fault for consistently posting feedback within 24 hours of the completed transaction but it's the right thing to do.

I respectfully request that ECF amend the rules to state that iTrader feedback is part of the transaction process and if feedback isn't posted within a reasonable time frame, classified privileges may be suspended or revoked.

As it is, with no mandatory requirement, iTrader scores are completely arbitrary and have zero value.

I'm sure I'm not the only member that has experienced this and have iTrader scores that do not accurately reflect the number of their transactions or their actions and integrity.

Thank you for your consideration.

 

[Racehorse]

As it is, with no mandatory requirement, iTrader scores are completely arbitrary and have zero value.

I'm sure I'm not the only member that has experienced this and have iTrader scores that do not accurately reflect the number of their transactions or their actions and integrity.

It can be discouraging if you are trying to build a rep in the classies, and it's a shame your buyers are not leaving FB...... but I don't know of any system, whether it be Ebay, Amazon, etc. that makes feedback *mandatory*.

Quite frankly, I think it would cause them to lose customers.

I used to sell books on amazon, and I sent out so many beautiful things, once I pretty much broke my neck to get a book out to somebody an hour after they bought it because they were going away and needed it for a wedding present. That person never even left me feedback. As a matter of fact, only about 30% of people ever bother.

I look at feedback as a courtesy thing. But I'm sure there are a number of things I have not left FB on....every once in a while I do forget myself. I have a high number of classified transactions and sometimes that makes it harder.

You can certainly choose never to sell to anyone who doesn't leave you FB, I mean, you can sell to whomever you wish you know.

 

[spartanstew]

I look at feedback as a courtesy thing. But I'm sure there are a number of things I have not left FB on....every once in a while I do forget myself. I have a high number of classified transactions and sometimes that makes it harder.

Agreed.

I don't think mandatory feedback is the answer, and wouldn't go so far as to say it's currently arbitrary. My current feedback is around 40, but it should probably be closer to 50. Does that really matter? Is someone not going to sell to me because it's only 40, but would have if it were 50?

 

[Rickajho]

When it comes to making a decision on whether to engage in a transaction or not, I tend to give more weight to the length of time the person has been an ECF member than the feedback score itself.

 

[Scottitude]

Thank you all for your comments. All valid points and I can appreciate them. Had my pre-iTrader feedback been grandfathered into the iTrader system it may not be such a sticky issue with me.

And actually, if someone can choose to provide or not provide feedback, it is indeed by definition of the word, completely arbitrary and therefore has no value whatsoever.

If my score was in the double digits, where it should be, the lack of common courtesy from a couple of members probably wouldn't rattle my cage.

Membership tenure may often a better way gauge a persons integrity but the thing is, I've dealt with dealt with several awesome members that haven't really been here that long that others may not give a chance without feedback scores.

I see it like tipping bartenders, servers, delivery guys, etc.; it isn't mandatory but it's the right thing to do in response to great service, and if you don't, you're a douche.

In my case, the offending parties have minimal posts unrelated to the classifieds which would indicate to me that they're not here to enhance the community, but to unload their gear,

Regardless of whether my suggestions is seen as knit-picking, it takes what, two minutes at most to leave feedback? Not too much to ask, in my opinion. Same with closing a thread; I can't count the number of times I've looked into a FS thread, ready to throw cash at the seller only to find that the last "sold" post was days ago but the seller couldn't be bothered to close the thread when they were right there on the page posting "sold".

I guess the answer is to remember who these inconsiderate folks are and bump their threads when I see them with a "great deal but if feedback matters to you, move along" comment.

Thanks again to all for sharing your thoughts.

 

[j0ker]

What you did is what I normally suggest to members who aren't getting the feedback they deserve, politely ask. Unfortunately that doesn't always work. The feedback system is a voluntary service and we won't force members to leave feedback. What I will do is, remove the feedback you left if you wish. If you look on that member's feedback page, find your feedback, then click the report triangle and in the report state "I wish to have my feedback deleted due to the member not reciprocating feedback for me" or something similar, I will delete the feedback and notify the member the feedback was removed. You might also, as a seller, wait for feedback before posting the buyer's feedback.

I know this doesn't exactly fix your problem but maybe it would start encouraging members to return feedback or then again they probably don't care either way and it'll make no difference , it's worth a try though.

 

[Scottitude]

Thanks for the suggestion, j0ker. It makes sense and may make these two members reconsider their inappropriate or inattentive behavior in regard to feedback, however it likely wouldn't strike a nerve with other members and as you said, these two may not care at all.

Unfortunately, since the sellers presented accurate descriptions of their items, shipped them in a timely fashion, and I'm satisfied with the prices I paid and the items I received, I wouldn't feel right about retracting my feedback. Kind of a "two wrongs don't make a right" thing, in my mind. They did everything required, they just failed miserably as human beings, IMO, which may just be the way they live their lives. Sad, really.

In PMs for future transactions, I'll politely inform the other party that I'll watch for their iTrader feedback to be posted and post my positive feedback accordingly.

Thanks again for taking the time to weigh in and offer to assist but I'll just call it a lesson learned and leave it at that.

 

[spartanstew]

When it comes to making a decision on whether to engage in a transaction or not, I tend to give more weight to the length of time the person has been an ECF member than the feedback score itself.

Honestly, I never look at either. If they've gone through the verification process, I'll do business with them.

You might also, as a seller, wait for feedback before posting the buyer's feedback.

It should probably be the opposite, although in either case you run the risk of both members waiting for the other to leave feedback.

As the seller, I leave feedback as soon as they pay (and before I've even shipped the item) because their part if the process is over at that point (and I rarely even notice if they don't leave me feedback later upon receiving their goods). As a buyer, I leave feedback once I've received the merchandise, again not always remembering if they left feedback for me when I paid or not.

 

[Scottitude]

...As the seller, I leave feedback as soon as they pay (and before I've even shipped the item) because their part if the process is over at that point...

Thanks spartanstew; this is the way all sellers should view the process! Once payment is received the buyer has completed their obligation and as such, all sellers should leave feedback upon confirmation of payment.

But again, we live and we learn.

 

[j0ker]

"two wrongs don't make a right".

Well, I suppose it is all in how you look at it. I don't see it as wrong to retract your feedback when the member fails to reciprocate the gesture. I see it as, the non-reciprocating member doesn't deserve the positive feedback if they aren't willing to follow through with providing you feedback. Like I said though, it's all a matter of perspective and if you feel it's wrong to retract then you should do what's right for you.

I do agree that iTrader is a very important part of the Classifieds and CO-OPs but we won't force a member to use it. If there was an easy way to force feedback I would probably implement it but unfortunately there's no way to do that in iTrader since it's not directly connected to the Classifieds and CO-OPs.

 

[ronnbert]

Just a quick question concerning protocol. If we need to get into the details of what transpired, I can PM you J0ker.

I was negotiating with a potential trade (possibly adding cash in with it), and had even given a counter offer to add things to the table that he had mentioned wanting. After this message, he said someone had contacted him from another local website where he also had an ad for the same item, and that he was going to go with that.

IMHO, I feel like this would violate the "feeler" or "auctioning" rule of the classifieds section, but did not see a rule specifically pertaining to posting the item on multiple sites for the same product. I just feel like it is bad to post a single item across multiple sale/trade sites and see who will get you the most for your device. I completely understand taking something that doesn't do well here and putting it on another site (after the for sale thread dies) if it just does not have any interest, but at the same time just rubbed me the wrong way.

Also, when I posted on his thread that he had sold it elsewhere and that I was in negotiations and had offered him a good counter-offer (of stuff he specifically requested), he proceeded to post a snide comment and closed the thread. I know I will avoid him in the future on the classifieds (and am even considering leaving a negative feedback if that is deemed appropriate, even though a transaction never amounted to anything), I just think some rule should apply to situations like these.

Also, about the negative feedback: I hate to mess with someone's positive rating, and I want to make sure I am able to leave feedback without going through with a trade, but I would just like other potential buyers to be aware of what has transpired. Am I jumping the gun on thinking about negative feedback, or am I being reasonable?

Thanks for reading all this and helping me out with this situation! Vape on

 

[spartanstew]

IMO, it is not against any rule. He even mentioned in the initial post that he also had it up for sale elsewhere. I don't know the details of any PM's (and don't want to), but it just appears that it sold wherever else it was listed and that was that. Maybe he should have updated the thread in a more timely manner, or maybe he should have let you know sooner that it had sold, but sometimes life gets in the way. Regarding his "snide" comment, I thought your comment that proceeded his was a bit snide as well.

I certainly wouldn't leave him negative feedback.

 

[ronnbert]

IMO, it is not against any rule. He even mentioned in the initial post that he also had it up for sale elsewhere. I don't know the details of any PM's (and don't want to), but it just appears that it sold wherever else it was listed and that was that. Maybe he should have updated the thread in a more timely manner, or maybe he should have let you know sooner that it had sold, but sometimes life gets in the way. Regarding his "snide" comment, I thought your comment that proceeded his was a bit snide as well.

I certainly wouldn't leave him negative feedback.

Thanks for pointing out that he did mention posting on other sites. I suppose that makes my inquiry moot.

I tried not to be snide with my post, I just wanted him to reply and confirm he had in fact sold it. I guess what I said could have been misinterpreted as snide, but I just wanted confirmation so that I or any other people could know the item was gone and could persue other options. I was just not expecting to be blasted in his reply and talked down to like I was a child. I will not leave any negative feedback, it was just a thought, and now that I know he did in fact mention he had it elsewhere, that is moot as well. I still consider it bad conduct to post things on multiple sites at the same time.

Thanks so much Spartan for helping me out with this, I really appreciate your time and guidance!

ETA: I do understand life gets in the way sometime, I just know it takes less than a minute to close a thread, reply that it was sold, or PM me, which he could have done during the time we were messaging back and forth. No matter, will live and learn!

 

[Scottitude]

In my mind, it's a borderline violation, but that's just my opinion. So this time it was Craig's List. What if it had been eBay? Or Amazon? Or one of the many "rules and civility are for idiots" vaping "communities" that have popped up over the last few years?

While I agree that no rule was broken in spirit, I'm inclined to agree with ronnbert that it seems closer to a "feeler" than an actual ECF classified listing, but when I'm selling gear, it's either to break even or give someone else a shot at a discount on pre-owned item I'm no longer using.

Since members don't have a "fecal list" option where we can add members that we don't want to ever consider dealing with, my suggestion is to hit the ignore button so you don't get dragged into making an offer on something that may already be sold elsewhere. I tend to ignore users who don't have the courtesy to close their threads for days after the item(s) sold.

 

[spartanstew]

In my mind, it's a borderline violation, but that's just my opinion. So this time it was Craig's List. What if it had been eBay? Or Amazon? Or one of the many "rules and civility are for idiots" vaping "communities" that have popped up over the last few years?

While I agree that no rule was broken in spirit, I'm inclined to agree with ronnbert that it seems closer to a "feeler" than an actual ECF classified listing, but when I'm selling gear, it's either to break even or give someone else a shot at a discount on pre-owned item I'm no longer using.

Since members don't have a "fecal list" option where we can add members that we don't want to ever consider dealing with, my suggestion is to hit the ignore button so you don't get dragged into making an offer on something that may already be sold elsewhere. I tend to ignore users who don't have the courtesy to close their threads for days after the item(s) sold.

I don't think we know for sure it was craigslist and I don't think that matters. There's been two instances where I've listed something for sale here and elsewhere - both times to break even. In one of those instances someone hear offered me a trade which I was considering, but wanted to sell more than trade. If I had received an offer to sell it elsewhere, I probably would have sold it and closed the classified here. Granted, I would have communicated better and closed my listing here immediately, but I don't think there's anything wrong with listing an item in multiple locations.

 

[cooladdict]

What if an item is only listed here (as far as you know) and the seller ignores any pm's or comments on the item for 3 days and then you get a pm stating the item has been sold? Is that just a very annoying thing that should tip me off to not deal with that seller again or is it, in fact, a violation? I think the sale is still active on the site, too. It was a few hours ago. Just wondering.

 

[spartanstew]

If the items is sold and they haven't closed the thread, it's a violation of the rules.

 

[cooladdict]

It is definitely still open. It has been since the 5th. I started trying to correspond on the 6th and from the PM I finally got yesterday it had been sold at some point. Maybe he or she doesn't know how to do a sale on here...

 

[spartanstew]

Just click the little triangle at the bottom of the first post to report it.

 

[cooladdict]

Okay thanks!