Clean tasting juice

[smelly]

I briefly mentioned this in the vapor chef Hobbes clone thread. Hoping some other people will see this and offer advice.

Some juices taste... Just... Well... Clean. I can't really describe it better than that. I mix VG, no PG other than what's in the flavors. I can get a flavor strength I like but there is still a veil over the flavor. It's the VG inherent flavor that seems to be causing it. It isn't a deal breaker and I taste it in most store bought juices BUT some (such as Vapor Chef) I do not taste this "VG veil". The juice has an almost water clarity thing going on.

PH maybe? I've experimented with different %s of water or alcohol being added and alcohol at 2% does help some.

Anyone else notice this/been able to combat it?

Maybe I'm just crazy?

 

[dannyv45]

read these threads.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ng-harsh-throat-hit-im-running-out-ideas.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/636681-looking-smooth-flavors.html

But it does seem like steeping may be the key here. So read my blog on steeping.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...you-wanted-know-about-steeping-then-some.html

 

[smelly]

I'll go check those out but I'd bet money steeping isn't what's going on. Vapor Chef makes juice fresh when you order it. Heading to check those links.

 

[JD1]

Maybe try as much as 20% water? I've never tried that high but I've read some posts where some people do. On my high vg mixes, I use 10% water which seems to do the trick for me. But that's tobacco flavors. I just received some fruit flavors that I'm going to try, but I don't know yet how well my high vg base will work with them.

 

[dannyv45]

VG is a thicker liquid then PG and an even less flavor carrier and dissolver then PG so some steeping may be required as it takes longer for flavoring to disburse through VG. If your using a high VG concentration and expecially if your not adding water you may want to consider heat steeping. Heat steeping will thin the VG and allow for better flavor molecule movement. But that's just a suggestion.

 

[smelly]

I'm afraid that much water will impact viscosity too much. I used to steep religiously, I gave that up, not enough of a difference, if anything it mutes the edges too much. All those top notes disappearing from being abused I suppose.

A bottle from Vapor Chef supposedly has no added water or ethanol. I also doubt they heat steep after filling the bottle. I received a bottle from them once and could still see the separation between the VG and the flavoring. I gave it a shake and vaped it up, tasted clean, as usual.

I'll try anything though to hopefully find an answer. Off to the grocery to pick up more distiller water.

 

[dannyv45]

I'm afraid that much water will impact viscosity too much. I used to steep religiously, I gave that up, not enough of a difference, if anything it mutes the edges too much. All those top notes disappearing from being abused I suppose.

A bottle from Vapor Chef supposedly has no added water or ethanol. I also doubt they heat steep after filling the bottle. I received a bottle from them once and could still see the separation between the VG and the flavoring. I gave it a shake and vaped it up, tasted clean, as usual.

I'll try anything though to hopefully find an answer. Off to the grocery to pick up more distiller water.

Keep us posted on your progress. The fun thing about DYI is doing suggested things even if they don't make sense. Sometimes these suggestions may just surprise you.

 

[smelly]

Well, as expected that much water really messed up the viscosity. Made batches last night and taste tested this morning. The taste was OK. I tried 2.5, 5, 10 and 20. 2.5 and 5 of course impacted the viscosity less but even at 5 I could tell how much more fluid it was. Overall the water hardly impacted the taste.

Anyone have other ideas?

 

[KindaBlue]

Speaking of dilutions, and how they may smooth out the flavor, What is the opinion of adding Vodka. Does Five Pawns ACB actually use absolute?
I have seen that there is a absolute tobacco flavor additive. Or is that a reference to the tobacco not the Booze?

 

[dannyv45]

Alcohol will burn off and be reduced to sugar which can cake your coils. Many report an unpleasent taste from alcohol. Alcohol is ment more as a solvent to desolve flavor molecules and not really ment as a dilutent. If your going to use alcohol you will need to air off the alcohol some time during the steeping process.

 

[smelly]

Kinda,
It doesn't sound like tobacco absolute is what you're thinking it is. Tobacco absolute is a flavoring, a very powerful one. Check out Nude Nicotine's tobaccos, they're pretty awesome. I didn't know ethanol vaped to sugar.

I like adding 2% ever clear. It helps clean up the flavor a little but it doesn't get me to the level I associate with Vapor Chef.

 

[dannyv45]

What he's talking about is vodka absolute to be added as a thinning agent and not tobacco absolute. There too very different things. Everclear can also be substituted for vodka absolute as that's a flavorless 100% grain alcohol. If your going to use alcohol as a thinning agent make a small test batch as you may not be pleased with the taste.

 

[smelly]

We are talking about vodka absolut right? (no e, the brand, absolut)

Anywayz,
I've been trying new mixes all day. I am losing hope.

 

[smelly]

Picking up some other flavors and some VG/nic bases to try out. We'll see how that goes.

I was thinking though, even if my nic base is the problem it doesn't explain why 0nic max VG from vapor chef still has that clean taste. If I make a batch with 0nic I can still taste that darkened veil. That's what leads me to VG being the culprit. Anyway, ugh.

 

[Javamon]

I think you need to try with some PG now. Try 70VG, 30PG.

 

[smelly]

im doing a lot of experimenting

I don't want to give up but at some point I have to cut my losses and just go back to paying for finished juice.

 

[Hoosier]

What VG are you using?

 

[smelly]

Wizard labs and essential depot. Nic is VG100 from wizard labs and nude nicotine (tried my freedom smokes also, which was blaghch).

I really do not want to dilute my mixes with water, ethanol (anything other than flavor) and I think that's where I'm running into problems.

Vapor chef however advertises no added ethanol or water... Unless they're fibbing a bit. But again I've tried water and didn't notice much difference, though I still have more experimenting to do.

 

[dannyv45]

Picking up some other flavors and some VG/nic bases to try out. We'll see how that goes.

I was thinking though, even if my nic base is the problem it doesn't explain why 0nic max VG from vapor chef still has that clean taste. If I make a batch with 0nic I can still taste that darkened veil. That's what leads me to VG being the culprit. Anyway, ugh.

Did you read my first blog about adjusting a base for harshness and did it help? If not tell me exactly how you went about it.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...base-reduce-peppery-harsh-nicotine-taste.html

 

[Hoosier]

"no added" is often confused for word play. You can buy hydrous VG and not "add" water as there is already water in the VG. I'd have no idea where one would find clean tasting VG with water already in it, nor where to find such that had a USP label. Kinda' doubt that is what your vendor is doing anyway, but folks tend to think "no added" means something other than exactly what it says.

Kurt's rule of thumb is flavoring + water = 20-22% in 100% VG mixes. That yields a PG consistency. (Historically this mention leads to pictures of thumbs wearing crowns as the colloquialism, rule of thumb, is amusing)

Hoosier's rule of thumb is, if you can't taste what is wrong vaping your flavorless bases, the issue is your flavoring ratio. Which is sometimes harder to nail down than a new gallon of P&G VG.