Clone Versus Authentic Discussion
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You got that right we owe china a lot more than vaping. They can shut down our economy within days, while you're busy vaping with one hand.
OK, but you continue to advertise the golf clubs made there, so call it even. Back to the topic; the "authentic" makers are laughing all the way to the bank and you support this because ___________. Please fill in the blank.
They also actively hack our defense systems and credit card industry, but that can be overlooked, as long as one can get a counterfeit at a great price...
Yes, they can, and that's our own fault, but that's for another discussion.
People often don't realize their economy is unlike anyone else's, and the price difference is partly because of that. Which is why I could buy a very nicely machined, innovative atty like the UD Aga t-7 for $20, which is not a clone or counterfeit.
That being said, before I throw $200 on something, no matter where its made, I need to be reasonably certain I think its worth it. Not everything is. I'm retired, too, and need to be careful how I spend money. Especially if I can't resell it for anything close to what I paid.
I do strongly feel clones should not have logos. I try, whenever possible to buy one that doesn't, or is obviously a clone due to the color. For example, I have a Stingray X that's red carbon fiber. That couldn't possibly be sold as authentic by an unscrupulous person.
I don't want all clones to go away though. I like to try before I buy, and sometimes they are my only source for spare parts.
The people that sell us our Vaping gear are NOT the ones that are hacking our defense and credit cards... You and ping need to chill. I guess spending too much money makes you crazy.
Ping is designed and forged in the USA. It is tested in the USA and yes they are produced in China. I don't see Provape or SvoeMesto running all the way to the bank. I sure do see the clone makers running to the bank. Why do I support authentic makers if that is your question. The reason is twofold. I. I believe in supporting the authentic maker. If I didn't you wouldn't be bragging about your clones would you. 2. I'm blessed to be able to afford quality and safe products.
No, but the country you love so much is.
So
Clones vs. Authentics
Quite a lot of topics to cover, arguments to be had
1. Intellectual Property: For an authentic you pay for the idea creators, the innovation, the copyright and patents, as I said intellectual Property. For a clone, you pay for theft.
2. Quality Materials: With authentics you know what you get, and get what you pay for, which helps with safety and ease of mind. With clones, you don't know what you pay for, you get less quality material, less safety focus if any at all, no ease of mind, but considering the damage of tobacco it might not be that bad, still can be bad and IS way worse than authentics.
3. Quality Control: On authentics you get quality products, focus on quality, better care to the product. On clones, there's way less quality control, if any, little to no care for the product. Nothing can have 100% excellent quality, but authentics are WAY more quality oriented than clones.
4. Performance: Totally and completely dependent on the build and the builders experience. A bad build can make an authentic a bad vape, a great build can make a clone a good vape. Performance will NEVER be equal, it just can't, function will be different even if slightly for the same reasons mentioned.
5. Smoke Freedom: Both authentics and clones gets us away from the deadly stinky sticks. Difference between both are all the ones being mentioned here.
6. New Shiny: You DON'T NEED it to stay smoke free, you WANT it.
7. Availability: Authentics can be hard to come by and if you want it you need to "hunt" for it. Patience is a virtue and again you don't need the new shiny.
8. Machining Price: Authentics are made on dedicated, quality oriented, machining shops, with better equipment and quality control, and they take more time to process them that is costly, and in the end it shows, with said quality. Clones are made faster, with less of a quality orientation if any, with machines that are second or third hand, not as clean, just not up to standard, with all that, machining cost is way less.
9. Workers Salary: Cost of labor on the US/Germany/Etc. (High End/Authentic producers) is HIGH, and focuses on doing the things right, needs experience, safety of the workers, health, environment, etc. Cost of labor in China and similar (Low End/Clone producers) is CHEAP, has little to no experienced workers, is not focused on quality, doesn't give workers the conditions of labor the other countries do.
I could continue going on an on, and might do at a later time, but being cheap is just that being cheap.
Quite a lot of topics to cover, arguments to be had
1. Intellectual Property: For an authentic you pay for the idea creators, the innovation, the copyright and patents, as I said intellectual Property. For a clone, you pay for theft.
2. Quality Materials: With authentics you know what you get, and get what you pay for, which helps with safety and ease of mind. With clones, you don't know what you pay for, you get less quality material, less safety focus if any at all, no ease of mind, but considering the damage of tobacco it might not be that bad, still can be bad and IS way worse than authentics.
3. Quality Control: On authentics you get quality products, focus on quality, better care to the product. On clones, there's way less quality control, if any, little to no care for the product. Nothing can have 100% excellent quality, but authentics are WAY more quality oriented than clones.
4. Performance: Totally and completely dependent on the build and the builders experience. A bad build can make an authentic a bad vape, a great build can make a clone a good vape. Performance will NEVER be equal, it just can't, function will be different even if slightly for the same reasons mentioned.
5. Smoke Freedom: Both authentics and clones gets us away from the deadly stinky sticks. Difference between both are all the ones being mentioned here.
6. New Shiny: You DON'T NEED it to stay smoke free, you WANT it.
7. Availability: Authentics can be hard to come by and if you want it you need to "hunt" for it. Patience is a virtue and again you don't need the new shiny.
8. Machining Price: Authentics are made on dedicated, quality oriented, machining shops, with better equipment and quality control, and they take more time to process them that is costly, and in the end it shows, with said quality. Clones are made faster, with less of a quality orientation if any, with machines that are second or third hand, not as clean, just not up to standard, with all that, machining cost is way less.
9. Workers Salary: Cost of labor on the US/Germany/Etc. (High End/Authentic producers) is HIGH, and focuses on doing the things right, needs experience, safety of the workers, health, environment, etc. Cost of labor in China and similar (Low End/Clone producers) is CHEAP, has little to no experienced workers, is not focused on quality, doesn't give workers the conditions of labor the other countries do.
I could continue going on an on, and might do at a later time, but being cheap is just that being cheap.
That all means nothing to me. The clones I buy are all quality made and vape as well as the authentics. You just paid a lot more than I did for basically the same thing. I love Vaping and I love not paying too much for my gear. Greed is the American way these days and you are only feeding it.
And while you are busy sending snotty quips on an internet forum..... Your point?
Their power over American economy isn't their fault, it's America's.... And has little to nothing to do with the topic, ergo your post qualifies as a troll
If I create something, I don't want it stolen, when it was my effort and idea to create it. The clones/thieves shouldn't get any money out of MY idea and product.
Research and Development costs, that's a fact. Getting something and cloning it has no virtue, no innovation, no value, no nothing.
You can't price something only on the material cost, you just can't if so, you're worth less than 5 dollars based on the composition of your body.
You don't need to have any of the newest shinies, you just want them and want them to be cheap.
There's originals being created in China that are great, but you just want what you want at the cost you want and the creators and workers can just go to hell.
I think greed is on the other side of the field, not wanting to spend just because. If you couldn't afford an authentic, then don't get that gear and instead support an original you can afford. It's as easy as that, everything else is just being cheap.
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If it's important to them they should have protected their creations. Or maybe they are just being stupid, cheap and or greedy. Not doing so creates anyone to make the same things but sell them at a reasonable price instead of over charging you.
The research of these things does not cost a lot. They are simply making a few changes to what's already out there.
I do need the newest and shinies. It keeps me interested and off cigs.
Greed is charging $180 for a $20-$30 item.
There is a difference between adding the cost of development into a product.... And exorbitantly over pricing a product.
It's a bad business plan to try and recoup all costs in as few sold products as possible.
In the eyes of the law, reverse engineering a product that isn't patented, isn't stealing. Trying to claim morality issues of purchasers buying perfectly legal product is just a big straw man argument.
The fact is, modders bring cloning upon themselves by: overpriced product and product unavailability.
If they would price their mods fairly there would be no market for clones. They could do some special run limited editions for the elitists and everyone would be happy.
As to quality...another straw man argument. Sure, if you buy a $10 FT clone, expect some poor quality, but many clones have been shown to be as good as, and in some cases even better than, the authentics in quality and performance.
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
It's a bad business plan to try and recoup all costs in as few sold products as possible.
In the eyes of the law, reverse engineering a product that isn't patented, isn't stealing. Trying to claim morality issues of purchasers buying perfectly legal product is just a big straw man argument.
The fact is, modders bring cloning upon themselves by: overpriced product and product unavailability.
If they would price their mods fairly there would be no market for clones. They could do some special run limited editions for the elitists and everyone would be happy.
As to quality...another straw man argument. Sure, if you buy a $10 FT clone, expect some poor quality, but many clones have been shown to be as good as, and in some cases even better than, the authentics in quality and performance.
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
This whole thread has been an extremely comedic read.
I'm glad to see both sides are still being viciously defended, even if as idiotically repetitive as ever.
Thanks for the read folks!
Looking forward to more comedic reading material for my morning toilet time!
I'm glad to see both sides are still being viciously defended, even if as idiotically repetitive as ever.
Thanks for the read folks!
Looking forward to more comedic reading material for my morning toilet time!
Their creations ARE protected, but we all know China does not respect other countries patents and there's just no law in that regard, a similar situation happens on Russia where they don't punish piracy so it's not on the authentic manufacturers in this case.
Research and development does cost, as well as machining that is charged by hour and is charged high, authentic manufacturers can (and sometimes do) purchase machines to produce, and those cost way too much, so there's a need to recover the investment later on, as time passes the products can then be made cheaper as investment of machining gets covered.
And adding to that there's always a need for profit on organizations, or there wouldn't be anything new or produced at all.
Being factual, you don't need them interest comes from you, you are the source of motivation to stay off of cigarettes and continue vaping, and whatever you vape, not the shinies.
Whatever excuse you want to make, or whichever fact it might be, that doesn't make you any less of a person or worth more or less than anybody else, but there is a reason for the prices of the products and arguing that is not gonna change it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j2VxGa2FrXA
A clone outperforming it's authentic in voltage drop...
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
A clone outperforming it's authentic in voltage drop...
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.
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