Absolutely true. I know plenty of people that went after the original mod after getting a clone. Even so, clones give both those who can't or are not willing to shell that kind of money on a mod the opportunity to have a similar experience to what the original is for less than half the price. Let's put it like this, if you were not going to shell $200 on a mod in the first place, even if the clone didn't exist, you just would not get it anyways most likely. So in reality the manufacturer isn't really losing as per say, and sometimes clones lead to people buying the original.
"Clones" are actually the REAL THING
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Whoa... what a fascinating thread. I learned a lot.
Just had a few thoughts...
1. If people stopped buying the 'real' thing, why would the person who designed it be inspired to do it again? Because if they got knocked off once, they can and probably will get knocked off again. Most people won't do it again. What do we all lose?
2. Today's world of 3 D printing means they can make a mold in minutes. Someone can make a perfect knockoff of a small piece in hours. A precise piece. With software and a few dimensions, they can project all they need to know about a piece if they don't have one. It's not rocket science, today, with cad programs and 3D printing. It takes less than it ever has to make a knock-off... an identical one.
The assembly of a bunch of premade pieces doesn't take long either. About the only way you can tell the difference is the fit and finish detail. How the screw parts turn for quality of threading. How much time was spent buffing out the mold areas. How much pitting on the surface from cheap metals or stainless.
From some reviews I've seen, it's possible that Fasttech is selling the 2nds that could not pass first quality inspection. And sometimes, the flaws are minor and don't affect functionality. Other times, it's mechanical, so it breaks and you wasted your money. You can easily spend more money replacing junk than buying the designer's pride from the get-go. It does seem like it's a dice roll from the reviews.
3. Those who defend clones go on and on and on about their right to buy clones. Of course you can. I especially love the comments about how it's not about status. Well, what's wrong with the Vamos if it's not about status? Why DID you buy the clone, and not the cheaper but just as functional Chinese brands to begin with? Do the clones actually work better than 'original' less expensive Chinese developed products like the MVP2, SVD, Vamos? I don't think so, those are pretty highly rated. So why would you want a clone over original lesser known products that work just as well? Not the status, and not the functionality. Sooo...why do you buy them?
4. Some clones are the same thing as the originals? So what? Why do you need one? If people didn't buy the knockoffs, maybe they'd make less of them... and maybe we'd have better and more original things to buy that would naturally come down in price as newer models hit the market anyway. But innovation and design would improve much faster. Nothing dampens enthusiasm more than investing money in your idea, only to have your inventory rendered worthless because a copy came out shortly after you hit the market. You going to spend the money designing another one? Nope.
Just some thoughts that ran through my head reading the thread.
Just had a few thoughts...
1. If people stopped buying the 'real' thing, why would the person who designed it be inspired to do it again? Because if they got knocked off once, they can and probably will get knocked off again. Most people won't do it again. What do we all lose?
2. Today's world of 3 D printing means they can make a mold in minutes. Someone can make a perfect knockoff of a small piece in hours. A precise piece. With software and a few dimensions, they can project all they need to know about a piece if they don't have one. It's not rocket science, today, with cad programs and 3D printing. It takes less than it ever has to make a knock-off... an identical one.
The assembly of a bunch of premade pieces doesn't take long either. About the only way you can tell the difference is the fit and finish detail. How the screw parts turn for quality of threading. How much time was spent buffing out the mold areas. How much pitting on the surface from cheap metals or stainless.
From some reviews I've seen, it's possible that Fasttech is selling the 2nds that could not pass first quality inspection. And sometimes, the flaws are minor and don't affect functionality. Other times, it's mechanical, so it breaks and you wasted your money. You can easily spend more money replacing junk than buying the designer's pride from the get-go. It does seem like it's a dice roll from the reviews.
3. Those who defend clones go on and on and on about their right to buy clones. Of course you can. I especially love the comments about how it's not about status. Well, what's wrong with the Vamos if it's not about status? Why DID you buy the clone, and not the cheaper but just as functional Chinese brands to begin with? Do the clones actually work better than 'original' less expensive Chinese developed products like the MVP2, SVD, Vamos? I don't think so, those are pretty highly rated. So why would you want a clone over original lesser known products that work just as well? Not the status, and not the functionality. Sooo...why do you buy them?
4. Some clones are the same thing as the originals? So what? Why do you need one? If people didn't buy the knockoffs, maybe they'd make less of them... and maybe we'd have better and more original things to buy that would naturally come down in price as newer models hit the market anyway. But innovation and design would improve much faster. Nothing dampens enthusiasm more than investing money in your idea, only to have your inventory rendered worthless because a copy came out shortly after you hit the market. You going to spend the money designing another one? Nope.
Just some thoughts that ran through my head reading the thread.
Here's a good reason to believe that clones are not the real thing. China will chrome plate any mystery metal and call it stainless steel if they think someone will buy it. Whether their end product is safe for us to use or not is of zero concern to them as long as they get our money.
Quick with the wit, there.
Here's a good reason to believe that clones are not the real thing. China will chrome plate any mystery metal and call it stainless steel if they think someone will buy it. Whether their end product is safe for us to use or not is of zero concern to them as long as they get our money.
Thanks for the telling image, good to know before I drop my hard-earned dough.
If you wanna know you are safe, but the real thing. The clones outta china are made of who knows what. I personally would rather save my pennies and get the real thing and know i get a quality product. But thats my opinion on this matter..
I do think though clones do lead to sales of the originals.
Clones do meet a need for budget vapors.
Clones are bad when companies literally do a 1/1 and throw certain names and signatures on the products (fooling the consumer if in the hands of an irresponsible company)
I do think though clones do lead to sales of the originals.
Clones do meet a need for budget vapors.
Clones are bad when companies literally do a 1/1 and throw certain names and signatures on the products (fooling the consumer if in the hands of an irresponsible company)
Here's a good reason to believe that clones are not the real thing. China will chrome plate any mystery metal and call it stainless steel if they think someone will buy it. Whether their end product is safe for us to use or not is of zero concern to them as long as they get our money.
I agree with parts of what you are saying, but I think in the case of the pic you posted, there are 2 factors in why your atty failed the way it did. First would be the liquids you vape and second would be the resistance of the coils you build on it. It looks for sure the resistance you are running is way too low by the looks of your o-rings and the insulator on the + post. Do you vape any dessert, fruit, or gourmet types of liquids? Some liquids like Boba's can do the same thing to an atty that you have going on there also. Are you vaping subΩ on your atty? It just looks like too much heat has been generated and that will accelerate the degradation of the atty as well.
And some of those ideas, such as yours, are just blatantly wrong.
You've obviously never tried to make a living in the music industry. Not ranting, but I've had people giving away copies of albums I've produced prior to them being officially released. Everyone involved lost royalties. Translation - lost income owed to them by the people transferring "copies" of the songs.
If people work, and produce a product, they should get paid. How would you like to work for free?
Sharing isn't caring - it's selfish people stealing.
1. Not my atty.
2. SS doesn't peel off to brass by sub ohming or using Boba's. That was the point. Not everything listed by China as SS is SS. So be careful what you buy out there.
I have to admit I like a good clone. They give people the ability to have a high end experience without the high end price tag, that's especially good for vapors on a limited budget. Also, it gives every vaper the opportunity to try a high end product for a fraction of the price to get an idea if they want to shell out the high dollars for it. Example, I always liked the Chi You, but the $225 dollar price tag seemed way too high. I bought a Chi You clone and liked it a lot. Now, I will be hunting down an authentic Chi You. I never would be doing that if I didn't test drive the clone first.
Also, some items are just nearly impossible to get because of limited supply and/or extreme price mark ups second hand, clone give the consumer the opportunity to have a product that is unattainable or discontinued.
However, it is inexcusable for clone makers to put the logos of the original on their clones.
Also, some items are just nearly impossible to get because of limited supply and/or extreme price mark ups second hand, clone give the consumer the opportunity to have a product that is unattainable or discontinued.
However, it is inexcusable for clone makers to put the logos of the original on their clones.
Though I agree with you, I respectfully disagree, you are talking about 2 different things here... In reference to this thread, it would be patent infringement, and in your example it is copyright infringement... The language that those are written by law are completely different. If a modder or manufacturer fail to buy the proper, "International" patent on their product that they designed, it is up for grabs on the international market... The laws are very clear about that...
What I don't understand is why someone would invest time and money to invent something and not want to protect it at all cost? I just don't get it!! There are corporations and people that research and follow patents from things that have been made in the past, waiting for them to expire, only to file the patent themselves... Very competitively, I might add...
A better example would be Apple vs. Samsung, LG, Motorola, Nokia, HTC, Blackberry, or any other phone manufacturer... Its never ending... That might put this whole thing in a better perspective than your music industry comparison...
I have the real Nimbus that I've run down to 0.36 ohm dual coils and every type of juice under the sun and it is still in same perfect shape it arrived in new from the store, your theories hold no value, the point is I don't have to worry about mystery metals with my purchases
I honestly dont even care about the logos or even more, the serial numbers. Even on an original I could care less. Some of the original mods I have looked at, it is actually the logo that makes me not interested in it. But I am not a 'label' kind of guy.
That said, I do like the death angel on my nemesis clone. Of course, that image is not trademarked by atmomixani, nor is it their logo, as it actually is trademarked by the original artist of the work. And I have yet to find any evidence that atmomixani is licensing that image from Anne Stokes. So I certainly do not feel any remorse about 'stealing' their logo, when they steal other peoples artwork and actually profit off of it.
That said, I do like the death angel on my nemesis clone. Of course, that image is not trademarked by atmomixani, nor is it their logo, as it actually is trademarked by the original artist of the work. And I have yet to find any evidence that atmomixani is licensing that image from Anne Stokes. So I certainly do not feel any remorse about 'stealing' their logo, when they steal other peoples artwork and actually profit off of it.
Just a reminder here on the forum-
Unacceptable
Counterfeit - An exact replica of original device. This would include, logos and/or any markings in which the original device contains.
Acceptable
Clone - This is a device that may appear similar, with similar functionality, but does not contain any of the same markings.
From here out, no counterfeit device will be allowed to be sold/traded/wanted in the ECF Classifieds nor will these devices be considered for a CO-OP.
Unacceptable
Counterfeit - An exact replica of original device. This would include, logos and/or any markings in which the original device contains.
Acceptable
Clone - This is a device that may appear similar, with similar functionality, but does not contain any of the same markings.
From here out, no counterfeit device will be allowed to be sold/traded/wanted in the ECF Classifieds nor will these devices be considered for a CO-OP.
Me neither.
I've been witness to containers full of knockoff Chinese merchandise being destroyed because they infringed on trademarks. But it's up to the trademark owner to make sure Customs is aware. You should see the lengths Disney goes to as well as several other big trademark holders. I had a friend (Customs Agent) who showed me all kinds of knockoff stuff he had caught, cast-iron John Deere tractor toys, Coca-Cola memorabilia, baseball cards, Mont Blanc pens, the list goes on and on. They had huge glass showcases lining a hallway at the Customs office showing literally hundreds of items.
I was responding to a specific part of the quoted post: "If I copy something, they haven't lost anything. There's no such thing as intellectual "property." "
Was I replying to a post about a Nimbus? No!!! I was replying to a post that had a pic of an obvious Igo-W "CLONE" in it... Therefore, your "theory" holds no value to what I posted...
No offense, but no liquid or coil resistance will turn food grade stainless steel into chrome plated unknown-alloy brass.
Aren't I Mr. Smartypants.
The problem isn't running sub ohm coils or the juice used, the problem is the atty is junk!
I don't buy the I can't afford it excuse. How many packs of smokes does it take to pay for a good atty/mod? Save your money your not spending on smokes and buy good gear.
How many have seen people say I'm not going to blow my money on good gear? yet they have a dozen clones that could have easily paid for a couple high end setups.
I have a hard time believing the above post I quoted was meant to be serious, but I couldn't help myself.
HEM CREW
Just to play Devil's advocate, this is all assuming that the original manufacturers have patented their designs and trademarked their logos? If they haven't bothered, for whatever reason, is it really "counterfeiting?...has any crime actually occurred?....people toss the word around fairly loosely without necessarily understanding what criteria must be met to have that actually happen...just a thought...
No offense, but no liquid or coil resistance will turn food grade stainless steel into chrome plated unknown-alloy brass.
Aren't I Mr. Smartypants.
I apologize to anyone I may have offended by my comments... They weren't intended as such... Ok, so the obvious here is the "cloned Igo-W" in the post I commented on was or is probably brass/nickle plated... Should've pointed that out in my post, (will try to be more thorough in the future), hence they won't stand up to some of the stresses low resistance and some of the ingredients that some eliquids are made with.... Is that better?
I will try to be more thorough next time "Mr Smartypants"!!!!
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