clones?

[CaliGrower]

Bawhahahah!

 

[Rocketpunk]

A friend showed me a genuine "Nemmy" and was all, "Look, man, look! A genuine nemmy!" I smiled and nodded and yes, edified him. He bought a genuine metal tube named Nemmy. And it's oh so awesome, man! A nemmy! With a genny!

Mechs are all the rage and I dig collectors out to complete their set, but in the end it's just like any other person who needs to be elbow with the Joneses. It's a metal tube. You show it off to the right people, they oo and aah. Show it off to people who really don't give a crap, it's only a metal tube.

 

[edyle]

^^^This. 100%.

In fact, sometimes the clones are even better than the originals. The kayfun lite clone, for example, has adjustable airflow. The original does not. The Russian 91% even lets you refill from the side, rather than from the bottom! The hcigar Hammer clone has silver plated contacts instead of the original's brass contacts. The Nemesis clone is indistinguishable from the original. These are exceptions to the rule, sure, but just because something is a clone, doesn't mean it's inferior to the original.

If the Kayfun lite does not have adjustable airflow, then how could you call something with adjustable airflow a Kayfun lite clone?

If the Russian 91% lets you refill from the side, rather than from the bottom, what is your point - ( I get the possible impression that you're calling the Russian 91% a Kayfun lite clone? - and if so, how can you call it a clone?)

If the hcigar Hammer clone has silver plated contacts instead of ... brass contacts... heck - well can you call that a knockoff? or is it an improvement; I'm confused on that one! A cheap knockoff is not a clone; an improved material composition is not a clone.

Now the Nemesis clone ... indistinguisable from the original - Now in my language that means it has no logo/label/brand but I have to assume your language is different. If it is indistinguishable in material design, but different logo, THAT is what I call a clone.

 

[SimianSteam]

I scrolled up and I guess you must mean this:



If so, then first I guess there is a typo there right? - 'makes' was supposed to be 'makers' ?

And yeah; I hope modders would get a sense of fulfulment if their own contributions end up becoming popular; to me its like the proof is in the pudding; if you think you have a good idea, it's only a good idea if the idea actually takes off.

now making money off the supposed good idea is a compleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetely different matter; the fact of the matter is, some people are good with coming up with good ideas, and OTHER people are good at making money off of it.

where you draw the line is there's some people good at STEALING! but let's not confuse the issue.

The best you can do is point out typos now? Pathetic.

So, to you people making money off of Raidy's design is OK, but Chinese factories making money off of any random modder's design is bad? Is this because they're Chinese, because they're a bigger company (though these "factories" aren't FoxConn. In a lot of instances we're talking barely bigger than a workshop.), because they're... What? What's the difference in your mind? If one is stealing then so is the other.

You made the argument. I'm just asking you to apply it fairly.

 

[SimianSteam]

If the Kayfun lite does not have adjustable airflow, then how could you call something with adjustable airflow a Kayfun lite clone?

If the Russian 91% lets you refill from the side, rather than from the bottom, what is your point - ( I get the possible impression that you're calling the Russian 91% a Kayfun lite clone? - and if so, how can you call it a clone?)

If the Hcigar Hammer clone has silver plated contacts instead of ... brass contacts... heck - well can you call that a knockoff? or is it an improvement; I'm confused on that one! A cheap knockoff is not a clone; an improved material composition is not a clone.

Now the Nemesis clone ... indistinguisable from the original - Now in my language that means it has no logo/label/brand but I have to assume your language is different. If it is indistinguishable in material design, but different logo, THAT is what I call a clone.

Your terminology is wrong. A clone is something that is similar to the original. A COPY is an exact duplicate of the original. A counterfeit is an exact duplicate of the original that is being passed off as genuine.

 

[Zealous]

Cmon people, the OP asked if the clones are good, stop comparing clones and originals based on their copyright and legalization.

Compare their machining, quality and performance UNBIASED.

To the people saying that they "would have" gotten a clone but it has to be without the original's logo, its good if this suits you, but business is business, honestly, people wont buy clones (as much as people do nowadays) w/o the clone having the original's logo. First, it is somewhat of an "assurance" that the clone is close to the original in terms of machining,quality and performance. Second, yeah it wouldn't sell as much because of people in general.

Anyway, to the OP, I haven't had any originals at all since I'm budget minded but I can tell that there are pretty good clones out there. I cant really give a good comparison since i havent tried any original stuff too. All I can say is that you can go on youtube or search this forum for comparisons of an original and clone of a certain product.

I don't know if this is true in general but for me personally this is absolutely not true. I don't want a clone that has any of the markings of the original. And I can't imagine anyone buying a clone expects they're going to get something comparable to the original in terms of machining, quality & performance. I think that most people who buy clones expect them to not be as good as the original so having the original markings on the device isn't going to change those expectations. When a clone DOES come out that's a good performer and doesn't need any or little modding to work really well, I think people consider that a little extra bonus for their money. But, especially with machining, I don't think anyone expects a clone to be as good as the original.

As far as me saying I don't want a clone with markings, I don't buy a clone because of the markings. And if I do get a clone with the markings my intention is usually to remove the markings if I can & put something on it I like instead (something I would not do with a 100-200$ device but would do with a 10-20$ device). If I thought the artistry of the device was so good that I wanted to purchase the mod for that I would save up & buy the original.

I suppose that some people do buy clones with the markings purposely though. But they're not buying them because they hope to have an item comparable with the original in terms of quality. If they are buying it for the markings yet buying a clone they are buying it so they can look like they've bought an original when they've bought a clone.

 

[SavePaperVapor]

Love me some clones. I've spent 125 on them and if I went authentic it would be close to a grand. These modders asking 200+ for a tube will never see a some from me. It's called karma

 

[optsmk]

I think clones are just fine. I bought a k-100 today and I'm loving it. It's supposed to be an empire clone. At least that's what I hear.
And besides, it wasn't long ago when if you bought a PC, it was either an IBM or a clone.

 

[~Ricky~]

I don't really have a dog in this fight...but I will say this: If I ever invent something that's basically a metal tube, or a metal plug with a couple of screws on top and a few holes drilled into it, I'd certainly contract with a chinese machine shop to deliver me about 300,000 units for a few dollars each before i'd plop down $300,000 for a machine so I could make them myself. Why reinvent the wheel (manufacturing plant)?

I'd then sell my 300,000 units for as much as I could get from them, pocket the profits and maybe use my free time while I wasn't counting my cash to design something else that I would then also contract out to a cheap supplier for myself. Heck, if we can buy the same thing for pennies on the dollar, why on earth wouldn't the mod makers just outsource it for the same costs themselves? Answer: probably a lot of them do and that's where some of the clones/copies/counterfeits come from, they are all made in the same factory!

 

[PLANofMAN]

Now the Nemesis clone ... indistinguishable from the original - Now in my language that means it has no logo/label/brand but I have to assume your language is different. If it is indistinguishable in material design, but different logo, THAT is what I call a clone.

Indistinguishable means that under a close inspection of the clone and original, the two cannot be told apart. They look exactly the same, even when you disassemble them.

The term "clone" when used by vapers, covers any copy of a mod, atty, or design, whether it be a knockoff that only has a vague resemblance to the original, or an exact copy of the original, down to logos and serial numbers.

 

[PLANofMAN]

I don't really have a dog in this fight...but I will say this: If I ever invent something that's basically a metal tube, or a metal plug with a couple of screws on top and a few holes drilled into it, I'd certainly contract with a chinese machine shop to deliver me about 300,000 units for a few dollars each before i'd plop down $300,000 for a machine so I could make them myself. Why reinvent the wheel (manufacturing plant)?

I'd then sell my 300,000 units for as much as I could get from them, pocket the profits and maybe use my free time while I wasn't counting my cash to design something else that I would then also contract out to a cheap supplier for myself. Heck, if we can buy the same thing for pennies on the dollar, why on earth wouldn't the mod makers just outsource it for the same costs themselves? Answer: probably a lot of them do and that's where some of the clones/copies/counterfeits come from, they are all made in the same factory!

^ He gets it. Oregonians are smart!

I suppose that some people do buy clones with the markings purposely though. But they're not buying them because they hope to have an item comparable with the original in terms of quality. If they are buying it for the markings yet buying a clone they are buying it so they can look like they've bought an original when they've bought a clone.

If I buy a clone with markings, it is because that particular clone is the highest quality one out there. I'm more into clone atomizers, though, not mods. I don't know if that makes a difference. I care about quality, not laser etchings.

Edit: I'm a sucker for laser etchings on drip tips though. Found one called a Chaos drip tip. I have no clue if it's a clone or not, but the etching is 無限 wu(2) xian(4) which means infinite or immeasurable (it's how they say "you suck me long time," in Chinese).

 

[buklao]

If that was what you really thought, you should have your head examined, but no way; you are just poking for a reaction and hoping to sit back with some popcorn and watch the fireworks for the new year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to be rude but maybe you should have your head examined. It is the truth and no matter how you want to avoid the fact that most of the people buy clones(fakes in terms of clothing) because of the logo/brand that has been copied, it is what it is. Would you rather have a sneaker with three stripes on the sides (just like adidas) w/o the adidas logo itself? I mean it would clearly say out loud that you are wearing a clone/fake. Also people avoid the ones w/o the logo to avoid "alienation/despise" because people who are "brand/price" minded will despise someone with a fake/clone wether it has a logo or not, and this is a proven fact. Im not implying this to everyone, you will see I categorize the people if you read this properly.

 

[buklao]

I don't know if this is true in general but for me personally this is absolutely not true. I don't want a clone that has any of the markings of the original. And I can't imagine anyone buying a clone expects they're going to get something comparable to the original in terms of machining, quality & performance. I think that most people who buy clones expect them to not be as good as the original so having the original markings on the device isn't going to change those expectations. When a clone DOES come out that's a good performer and doesn't need any or little modding to work really well, I think people consider that a little extra bonus for their money. But, especially with machining, I don't think anyone expects a clone to be as good as the original.

As far as me saying I don't want a clone with markings, I don't buy a clone because of the markings. And if I do get a clone with the markings my intention is usually to remove the markings if I can & put something on it I like instead (something I would not do with a 100-200$ device but would do with a 10-20$ device). If I thought the artistry of the device was so good that I wanted to purchase the mod for that I would save up & buy the original.

I suppose that some people do buy clones with the markings purposely though. But they're not buying them because they hope to have an item comparable with the original in terms of quality. If they are buying it for the markings yet buying a clone they are buying it so they can look like they've bought an original when they've bought a clone.

I appreciate your opinion but you just missed the whole point of the statement that you replied to.

I stated ' SOMEWHAT of an "ASSURANCE" that it is CLOSE to.... '

I even put quotation marks on the word assurance so that it would not imply as what the word is. You see people even use hand gestures of quotation marks to express that the word they used isn't exactly what its supposed to be.

Also, lots of clones nowadays are as good as the original or close to it or even better. Some clones need a little bit if tweaking to get an excellent performance out of them but hey guess what? You are buying a mech mod and RBA, if you are too lazy to tweak your stuff why get into rebuildables in the first place right?

But people are different, i understand those who collect and vapes as a hobby, i respect their opinions.

To those who buys original because well it is the original and avoid clones because they are clones, aren't vaping's job is to keep you off cigs? Which a clone and an original can do. Aren't vaping supposed to be cheaper than cigs? Hey clones are not expensive.

Vaping should be vaping, people have different preferences no need to grab people on the authentic side nor the clone side, it is whatever that suits one's way of living.

 

[Thrasher]

why is it everyone had to derail the poor guys thread and not just answer a question, there is a clone wars 1000+ post in the APV section. go post there.

 

[buklao]

why is it everyone had to derail the poor guys thread and not just answer a question, there is a clone wars 1000+ post in the APV section. go post there.

I appreciate you directing people to where the argument is supposed to go at and I agree that people should reply to what the question or the topic of the OP was.

Anywhoo, i dont like how you said "poor guys thread" , im not sure whether its implying as poor as in "no money, broke" or poor guy as an expression (some sort of sympathy). Also, it isn't actually clone wars but clone vs authentic wars.

I dont mean to be rude but yeah, some people might understand your post completely different than what you were trying to imply.

 

[CaliGrower]

Love me some clones. I've spent 125 on them and if I went authentic it would be close to a grand. These modders asking 200+ for a tube will never see a some from me. It's called karma

AMEN BRO!...


like i mentioned before, some of these guys are either ordering their clones from some shady place that sells clones of clones of clones, or their just repeating what the have read or heard elsewere

im not bragging by any means but i CAN afford to buy pretty much any and all authentic mods on the market.I DONT.....why?...because as has been mentioned a million times in this thread now, call them copies,counterfeits,clones, whatever you like, the fact is that THERE ARE ALOT OF 1:1S OUT THERE NOW THAT ARE EXACT DUPLICATES TO THE ORIGINALS IN EVERY WAY IN FIT,FINISH,QUALITY,ECT.for a FRACTION of the price of the original.......like others have said, why would you wanna spend $300 on a steel tube? because some knotthead put it together and thinks its worth that?...like ive always said, you could throw a fricking empty beercan out there for $1000 ad eventually someones going to buy it , and its gonna be the best beer can in the world TO THEM....TO ME?...its worth the CRV of 5 cents in california/oregon..lol
most of these guys that are cowing and snivelling isnt because they feel sorry for the modders , its because NOW THEIR $300 MOD IS WORTH $50 BUCKS as most guys will buy the COPY/CLONE/COUNTERFEIT before they buy an original, so they cant even resell it.......its like you have two cars sitting side by side with no miles. one costs $50,000 and one costs $5,000.....the $50Ks name is camero and the $5k ones name is kamro. other than the name, they are exactly 100% IDENTICAL in every way, the parts even interchange, but the kamro gets better mileage because it has silver plated spark plug contacts.......which is the one the average joes gonna buy?...of course those people who already bought the camero are going to be ...... cause the value of their $50,000 is just in the name and went into the toilet as their car went from being worth $50,000 to $5,000 overnight.

those of you who just cant get past the fact that my $60 clones better than your $300 original, tuff titty!...get over it!......i think that some of those guys probably sit up nights now tweaking on the whole issue....LOL....i do have to say i have seen some comments on this site on the clone/original thing that have really made me laugh...

poor poor modders!......BAWHAHAHAHAH!

i bet you could post somewere that the jojo sojo hybrid mod is junk, and in a few days it would be all over the web, everyone will have one and they will be kakkaa...and they dont even exist

 

[CaliGrower]

hey PLANofMAN...

you see the new unauthorized chi you drip tip? mojo had a conniption fit over this one!
$2.17 Stainless Steel Chi You 510 Drip Tip - random serial number at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

too bad you couldnt get them custom lasered with the same serial thats on a persons clone!

 

[edyle]

The best you can do is point out typos now? Pathetic.

So, to you people making money off of Raidy's design is OK, but Chinese factories making money off of any random modder's design is bad? Is this because they're Chinese, because they're a bigger company (though these "factories" aren't FoxConn. In a lot of instances we're talking barely bigger than a workshop.), because they're... What? What's the difference in your mind? If one is stealing then so is the other.

You made the argument. I'm just asking you to apply it fairly.

Hey, sorry man; maybe I didn't understand what you said, ok.

Happy New Year.

Done.

 

[CaliGrower]

hey,i thought Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? often imitated but never duplicated and all that?

pooooooooooooooooooooooooooor poooor modders.....or should i say pooooooor pooooor guys who bought their junk that got copied and cloned and got upstaged?

 

[retired1]

When a thread gets to the point of insults and name calling, it's time to close.

This thread is done.