clones?

[CaliGrower]

i honestly cant see the whole big toodoo over the clone situation. as i said before, i believe its all a game. i believe that what happens is these designers make a mod, throw it out there for $250-$350 bucks in hopes to get people going wanting one, and snack these stupid prices hardly anyone one can afford on them, and then after they get a reputation, go to an actual manufacture with their blueprints and ideas and get the thing cloned. hell the average working stiff can not afford to pay $350 for a mod, and those who can, alot of them wont. hell, you can go buy a nice brand new shotgun, or maybe a new car stereo or whatever for that much, and the designers KNOW THIS ...... ok, so in comes the clones. in alot of cases, they are as good or better IMHO as the original. like i mentioned before, i had the opportunity to compare the authentic Kato hammer mod, the HCigar and the Tobeco all together and the hammer was literally 1:1, except for two things. the inner battery tube and the connection pins on the HCigar clone were silver plated, which IMHO makes the HCigar clone BETTER than the original. same type of thing with the chi you. i had an original Mojo chi you, bought an hcigar clone,and i like the clone better ( it also has silver pins), so much so i sold my original chi you on ebay, ordered another hcigar clone and used the chunk of money i had left to buy christmas presents (vape gear) for my friends and family. as far as im concerned, i dont think twice about buying a clone because of this.furthermore, as far as im concerned, the whole "stole the designers idea" thing doesnt figure in. how many items of value have the Chinese, Japanese , Koreans ,ect copied that originated from designers right here in the USA, logos and all?...LOTS.....free enterprise at its best. hell all youve got to do is go to the swap meet and youll see hundreds of items in vendors booth that are identical to name brand items, with just the name changed most of the time ( sometimes they even use the original name!) . they may copy a yo-yo and call it a yay-ya or something and price it 50% cheaper.. only one generally crying about it is the original designer. do you honestly CARE if some korean or chinese designer had his idea copied? i dont. ive seen guys on these forums say stuff like "hey, ill buy the original for $400 bucks, id never buy a clone of the original!....oh, yea, ok then, right......those are the people who probably have drawers full o clones, but who cares? do they think the designers going to see it and send them something free?....maybe they feel like its an extension of their junk or something, or maybe trying to flash like they have some cash?....hel ive got properties i own outright that total about 2.5 mil in value or more, and im not running out buying $400 mods..ive also read guys hollering " id never buy from fasttech!....why drive the chinese economy!" without realizing that most of the retailers are ALREADY BUYING DIRECT FROM fasttech (or some other chinese wholesale house for this stuff), so what they are doing is pretty much letting the DEALERS drive the chinese economy, and then paying a 500%+ markup ( check it out, compare prices yourself on the same items. i went into a local dealer awhile back and they had the el-cheapo generic ego 650 mah batteries for $55 bucks apiece...$55 BUCKS!....a genuine joyetech ego battery was $78 bucks....ya, no joke..another 20 bucks ad you could buy an evic complete kit online!). i cut the middle man out and buy direct myself. the chinese will get the money regardless, only difference is how much your spending. us dealers are so greedy if they cant make a whole days wages on one single sale, its not worth their time. why would anyone want to pay $300 for something they can get for $30 for the SAME ITEM, only difference is sum yung gi is designing it and selling it high, and sum yung grl is duplicating it and selling it lower and making all the money while sum yung gi is cryin the blues... if the whole clone thing was such a big issue, patents or not, the designers would be all over the court systems and we wouldnt be able to get any deals on anything, cause they wouldnt be able to sell the clones!..the chinese DO have a legal system by the way, as does the united states, and if an idea is stolen from someone in another country, they can STILL SUE in US court


sorry designers and dealers, ill buy a clone/shop at fasttech or some other discount dealer everytime over the genuine product,logos,ect and all or buying from a us based dealer, and i will continue to, if nothing else, out of protest for the outrageous stupid inflated prices they all charge.

ive seen US dealers selling protank coils for $3 bucks EACH online, and a couple vape shops selling them for $5 bucks APIECE.....REALLY?....buy 10 from china for 5-7 bucks for the package, SHIPPED

 

[CaliGrower]

and my next mods gonna be a 1:1 poldiac CLONE


muwhahahah!

 

[CaliGrower]

well, just now ordered a 1:1 poldiac mod CLONE in solid gorgeous stainless steel this evening. saved myself about $150-$200 over retail price too!....WHOOHOO!...will post pix when it gets here. 1:1 all the way down to the designs and logos!....serial number too!......gonna be a nice addition!....oh and the vape?....clouds and clouds of nice sweet flavorful vape from one of my 1:1 RBA CLONES!......

im sorry for sounding like a ..... on the whole thing, but hey, this whole clone issue gets pushed so far out of proportion its silly.

 

[CaliGrower]

Poldiac Clone 1:1 Mechanical Mod

here it is

 

[Randizzard]

IMO, if you have the loot to pay for an original.... Good for you.

Like myself I'm sure people have bills and priorities (kids), and other financial worries other than buying the most elegant vape art work piece they can find. I own all clones and not a single one has failed me. I've even gone as far as buying authentic pieces or parts to replace others. And this kind if makes me thing a previous post was very accurate when stating originals sell the plans. How else can a brass nemmy upgrade kit fit on a clone?? I love vaping but honestly can't afford gorgeous authentic hardware. But I do own cheap authentics like smoktech rsst and a magneto, both cost me a total of $17.

 

[Nikkita6]

It depends on who made the clone ... The majority of clones that I have come across are usually reviewed very well, but there is always gonna be that one which is an absolute bust. Like some others stated, read reviews first, and preferably from several sources.

 

[CaliGrower]

amen to that. im of the same mind, i really dont think theres any real "authentic" stuff. i think that the designers make the mods, put a few out there and when the sales drop off, take the plans to someone like hcigar and have them make them up so their making money hand over fist. they wnt let it out cause if they do the few extra bucks they make and the big marketing point of the "so called genuine" mods goes away. i made the point in another post on here about regular joe not being able to afford to pay those big price tags. what gets me is if these things are so complicated, why is it that these cloners can reproduce them to a t and sell for a fraction of the originals price? its all a money and marketing game bro. it just really cracks me. if im not mistaken, earlier this year a newer model mojo chi you was CLONED and released to the public BEFORE the actual original mod was even put on the market and let out. now let me ask you, how can some one CLONE an original mod that hasnt been released yet?.....where did they get the designs and plans?...something awfully fishy about that, wouldnt you think? just reinforces what i was saying about the modders and cloners being in cahoots.

one thing ive noticed nikkita6 is that USUALLY (not always) the first clones to hit the market are generally the best quality ones, but like i said, not always. that to me would be another point in the direction of the modders working directly with the cloners. then you have those companies that try to produce and clone the clone and of course their clone of the clone isnt going to be as good a quality as they dont have the plans/blueprints for it as the original CLONER did.....

 

[evilfrog]

C'mon people, stop blaming the modders and making excuses. If you buy clones you are supporting thieves. If you have no problem with that, then go ahead and do it. ...but at least have the guts to be honest with yourselves.
And I don't even think it hurts the modders' sales - they still sell out in no time.... it's just bad taste.

They even forged Jim's signature on the Poldi clone. Not cool.

There's plenty of reasonably priced high end gear, and reasonably priced original Chinese gear too. I know a lot of people just want good gear, be it a counterfeit or not, but given the choice between a good fake and a good original, I hope most of us would chose the original. I don't understand the urge to buy fakes.

Buy a Reaver, a GkmF20, a Dreamcatcher, a NGP, etc. A bit over $100 will buy a high end mod. DIDs are 43 Euros right now! Or go with a Magneto or MVP or Vamo, etc. It's easy to avoid counterfeits. There's so many options these days that there's no need to compromise.


I know I'm tilting at windmills here, and this fight is lost already, so don't even bother flaming - I've said my bit and will depart the stage. We're all going to continue to do what we think is right... I just get the urge to rant a couple times a year.

 

[f1vefour]

Technically a clone with the original markings would be a counterfeit, it's a bit different in that these can be sold as originals.

Buying clones without original markings doesn't seem wrong to me, buying counterfeit goods does seem a bit of a gray area to some.

 

[CaliGrower]

evilfrog, no flaming from this direction. its all your opinion and thats all good.

it does hurt the modders sales by quite a bit im sure.the urge to buy fakes/clones of like quality is the difference on being able to afford to buy your kids clothes and food,pay your insurance for the YEAR ,put that new alternator on your car,ect.. rather than having a "stylish designer" mod or not....pretty straight forward if you ask me (and probably most others). i guess if someones independently wealthy and MUST have the "real deal", more power to them. me personally, ill stick with buying the clones.

i will buy clones and if im supporting thieves, so be it,love them to death, and if i saw them in person id buy them a steak with some of the money i saved buying their clone, and probably give the some ideas for new styles,ect...LOL.... like i said, how about all the ideas and stuff they have stolen from US designers?...makes me no difference if some poor schmuck in korea or chinas loosing money. like i said, if these things can be 1:1 repopped by the cloners for a minute fraction of what the modders are charging, IMHO their (the modders) trying to bend us over and screw us royal anyway, so shame on them, not shame on those who want to save the money. heck, got a 510 connector? it your local hardware store and you can buy a copper pipe nipple of the proper diameter, a cople of caps, a switch and some wire for under 7 bucks and build your own "custom mod".......maybe pencil a couple designs on it with a dremel and charge $250 for it.....sound familiar?

frankly, id like to see every single solitary sliver of this stuff cloned and sold CHEAP. as i said, it just goes to show you how grossly overpriced this stuff is in the first place. if a modder sells their stuff for $300, and the identical clone made from the same materials and has the same quality is selling for $35 bucks, doesnt that tell you something? maybe the modders are screwing us??? even factoring their time none of the junk they designs woth what they charge. throw $10 worth of materials together and charge $300..more expensive doesnt always mean more better!..,.if they dont already, the modders should see by now that people are going to buy the clones (and i believe they do, i believe they are in cahoots with the cloners myself) regardless and they are MUCH cheaper and the qualities in most cases the same. the average working stiff cant afford the kind of money the modders charge. if they are the typical american family with payments to match, even $100 has to be a planned and saved for purchase...so i should feel bad and call the working stiff a bad guy cause the modders are getting screwed and the working joe is supporting thieves?..i dont think so.....

who makes more money? the modder who designs the product and sells 500 of them for , say $300 bucks, or the cloners who sell 500,000 of the virtually identical item at ,say $60 apiece?

modder $300x500=$150,000
cloner $60x500,000=$30,000,000

even if you cut the cloners production in half to 250,000 their still making 15 MILLION bucks ( and in a country like china, thats like making 15 billion in a country where the average monthly labor wage is about $137 bucks), compared to the meezly $150,000 the modder would make? REALLY?...and you dont think the modders are geting some of that?

the math speaks for itself, thats why i firmly believe that these modders and cloners are in league in the first place,hell if i was a modder making $150,000 , id kill someone for $15 MILLION.. theres to much money involved, so no one can tell me otherwise as like i said, if they werent, dont you think the court systems would be absolutely packed with cases?..if that were so, the courts , be it here or in china or whatever country your in would have already put a hold on sales of the clones im sure. heck furthermore, if you look into patent law ( if the ideas were patented, and if not, tuff luck) you can take someones idea, switch this or that a little, change this or that a smidgen, and BAM, now you have whats considered a whole new idea. then they have to prove in court they came up with the idea FIRST, which can take YEARS

like i said before, i dont care one single bit if the chinese ,korean,greek,japanese,ect modder in another countrys loosing money, i wont loose one single bit of sleep over it and ill continue to buy the clones, heck knowing the US, we will probably bomb them tomorrow anyway... only emotion i feel is joy when someone starts bragging they spent $350 on a mod and i pull out one identical to it, and they say "OH you too?" and i say "no, mine only costed me $60" and they compare them and see they are identical and see how screwed they got. i generally ask them if the modder they bought it from used any grease.....LOL....

only high end mod i have left (if you want to call it that...lol....sold them when my ... started getting sore from being boned by the modders) is an itaste 134, and i used that for a few days, put it back in its nice little box and put it in my cabinet. ill save it and give it for xmas next year or maybe as a birthday present.

 

[CaliGrower]

my 1:1 poldiac CLONE will be here on tuesday...vape...vape.....vape.......

i had a dream last night that mojo and me were having brunch at hometown buffet and he was ...... he didnt think of putting silver plated contacts in his original design but said he corrected that when he sold his plans to HCIGAR....then Kato popped in and while eating his succulent potroast,crab puffs and his mr softy ice cream swirled around his hammer mod from the desert bar mentioned the same thing......Kato did say when i asked him about swirling the ice cream around his hammer mod that he does that so he can vape and eat vanilla at the same time......mojo was using his chi yous like chopsticks to pick up some sweet and sour pork. he had AIOS atomizers on them with 70mm drip tips. i was dumbfounded and he glared at me over his sweet and sour pork and said "thats all they are worth and good for anymore, chopsticks. can you pay for my meal? now that ive sold my plans i cant afford to eat" (or were the kayfuns? its all so hazy). so i sprung for brunch

what does that dream mean?........its really confusing.

 

[CaliGrower]

Bawhahahahahah!

 

[Sucker_dad]

I have no problem with clones. If I get to the point that I can afford an Original then I would buy the original. I tend to think Calis math is way off though. He listed the price of clones at $60 when in reality it is more like $20 even in China they have to pay for raw materials and labor. After you factor in those two, there might be a couple of bucks left for profit. You still think they are sharing that with the original designer? I sure don't. Just like they are not sharing profits with the musicians cds that they bootleg.

 

[Don Robertson]

ive seen US dealers selling protank coils for $3 bucks EACH online, and a couple vape shops selling them for $5 bucks APIECE.....REALLY?....buy 10 from china for 5-7 bucks for the package, SHIPPED

And ya don't have to go to China to get a clone that says, "Genuine" ..... I see Kange coils ..... the genuine item all over the place for $6.00+ to $9.00+/- and they are just that "genuine". My local shop gets $5.00 a PIECE or $20.00 for FIVE for T3S / EVOD / ProTank coils! I like my bucks to remain local , however, it is hard hard hard to pay those "rent, utilities, insurance" costs even for the local guys. I MUST go where the bucks go further (farther ..... mo-longerer ..... whatever)!

Senile and NOT RICH .......... Old Man Don

 

[CaliGrower]

I have no problem with clones. If I get to the point that I can afford an Original then I would buy the original. I tend to think Calis math is way off though. He listed the price of clones at $60 when in reality it is more like $20 even in China they have to pay for raw materials and labor. After you factor in those two, there might be a couple of bucks left for profit. You still think they are sharing that with the original designer? I sure don't. Just like they are not sharing profits with the musicians cds that they bootleg.

i was just pulling random numbers out of my .... bro to show a point. and on the profit sharing, honestly, who knows?..they may or may not be, problem is we will never know being as they are there and we are here in the US. until one of these companies or modders comes clean with the real skinny, its all speculation any way you look at it...

my whole point in the long book like posts were that be it a clone or original, 99% of people will buy whats cheapest, and honestly, they are in china. who really truly cares like i said if some designer over there isnt getting what he feels he deserves and someones copying his items and selling them cheaper?......thing is, you have to look at the stuff and the prices. yes, materials cost money, labor costs money,ect but if these cloners can put out a 1:1 product as cheaply as they are, then it shows one thing and really one thing only. the guys who design these things and charge these outrageous prices are bending us over and pounding us good on them. im not one to complain about making a profit on anything, god knows ive made my share, BUT like the majority of the dealers here in the US. buy it so cheap from overseas that a welfare mother could take her check and start a business with it selling vape stuff, and sell it so frickin high most cant afford it. its like that drip tip that was posted awhile back on here somewere for $20, but the exact same drip tip was on fasttech for $3. EXACT SAME ONE......what does that tell you?..i do have to say though that i HAVE found a few dealers selling reasonably priced clones/items, literally for just a buck or two over fasttechs site, and some of them are based in southern california (without mentioning names of course)
who knows what goes on over there in chinaand honestly, who really cares?, i dont but it would be nice if we did. fact is, when a 1:1 clone can be produced for pennies on what the actual dollars are that modders charge, it makes ya wonder, dont it?.........i think some of those fools havent grasp the concept of selling for a reasonable price and making the money in volume sales.

like i said, ill buy the clones before the 'designer originals" every day of the week and if i could id buy the cloner dinner to boot......someone said it best when they told me (and i wont mention names) that they think the reason that theres so much toodoo over the whole "clone" situation is because when a quality 1:1 clone comes out for say $30 and they paid $300 for theirs, its not a matter of them feeling sorry for the modder, its that they spit nails because the value of their $300 "investment" just went into the toilet an splashed. hell most people buy copied or cloned items every day when they shop. you dont hear them cowing about the inventors feelings,ect do ya?.......no


now see, isnt it nice to have a discussion about this sort of thing and voice your opinions without everyone "flaming"?.....personally im am very opinionated ( cant tell can ya?) and i always welcome everyone elses opinions/debates on any subject as its nice to hear others points of view without someone getting all hot and bothered ad ticked off.

 

[jwsfunnyfarm]

Me personally do not have the money to spend on a $200-$300 original nor would I want to, when I can have a clone that works just as good for $20-$50. sometimes with a little tweaking hear or there, but with the cost difference I can live with that and I like to Tinker, and there is the part that I can have a lot more mods with the same $ as one original. I just see it as I can find better things to spend my money on than a overpriced battery holder (my opinion ) .

 

[CaliGrower]

And ya don't have to go to China to get a clone that says, "Genuine" ..... I see Kange coils ..... the genuine item all over the place for $6.00+ to $9.00+/-

hey Don, 101vape.com has "geuuuuine" kangertech protank coils for under $5 for 5 and alot of other goodies cheap

i buy the el cheapos from fasttech and rob the rubbers out of them to rebuild mine..LOL

 

[CaliGrower]

Me personally do not have the money to spend on a $200-$300 original nor would I want to, when I can have a clone that works just as good for $20-$50. sometimes with a little tweaking hear or there, but with the cost difference I can live with that and I like to Tinker, and there is the part that I can have a lot more mods with the same $ as one original. I just see it as I can find better things to spend my money on than a overpriced battery holder (my opinion ) .

LOL.....my thoughts are honestly the same, they all do the same thing ( like i posted elsewere). they take a certain voltage/wattage and put it to a wire wrapped wick hat in turn produces a vapor carrying nicotine to the user. be it a cheap ego battery or a $50,000 designer solid 18K and platinum job thats diamond and emerald encrusted digital smart mod that talks to you, plays MP3s and MPEGS with a built in GPS,emergency epurb beacon with built in cellphone and xbox 1, they fr the most part do the exact same thing, so why in the HECK would anyone want to spend the $50,000 on one?....or for $50 you can get a solid brass copy with cubic ziconias and glass emeralds...


ill take the stainless knock off myself...LOL

 

[CaliGrower]

cant wait to get a clone of this one though, and get an arnold tank clone to put on it
http://.........blogspot.com/2013/12/size-matters-ksd-e-huge-mod-26650.html

arnold clone
http://101vape.com/rebuildable-atomizers-tanks/176-arnold-atomizer-clone.html

it even comes with an adapter to plug your cellphone in to charge it while you vape

 

[PLANofMAN]

I like clones, for the sake of my wallet.

Now I read something interesting the other day, the maker of the Steamboy and Steam Turbine atty was having a meltdown on the FastTech forums because his stuff had been cloned. Apparently, he'd just gotten a loan for $335,000 for a CNC machine a week before the clones came out...

His atty are, what, $125? Cheap compared to most original atty, but still out of my range at the moment. Of course, I haven't seen the originals in stock anywhere, either, and I would have never heard of them if it wasn't for the clones.

Just my 2 cents.