That is terrible for the guy but how could he have been so naive in thinking his stuff wouldn't be cloned.
clones?
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the ST? yea more like 200+ for the stainless and 250+ for the titanium.
while i feel for the guy he needs to be careful with his raging, when this happened over the AC9/RSST everyone lost all respect for vapinaze and sales dropped cause the guy went full ...... and he spent more time raging on forums then making sure there was stock on the shelves, by the time he calmed down and the next batch finally came out it was over the rsst won.
same thing when the ithaka clones came out the designer was mad upset. when asked about it later he recanted and said the amount of people now exposed to his product from the clones drastically increased interest in the original. and he admitted as much as he doesnt like it its hard to complain when sales are skyrocketing.
these people need not concern themselves and get busy making attys before interest and respect falls to the wayside. do just like svoe mesto did with the kayfun, shut up and keep pumping out as many units as you can, and still today there is what, like 8-9 clones now? and the original still sells out in a few days. real turbines will always sell and in most cases they are crying about people who wouldnt buy their atty in the first place.
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Ok, let me see if I can figure out what all the fuss is about (again):
The Fasttech Steam Turbine Genesis Style Rebuildable Atomizer (3.0mL) - $14.80
The DocDave SS Steam Turbine: $210.00
The HCigar Steam Turbine: $49.99
Ok, theres like a Dunlop tire, a Michellin Tire, and a Firestone tire. Different makers, different prices.
I don't have a problem with clones. I happen to love my Chi-You clone. It's worth every penny of the $50 I spent on it. Would I have paid the $200 or more price tag for it if there were no clone? Heck no. Had the price tag been around $80 or $90 for the authentic versus the clone at $50, then sure I would have bought the authentic. And feel free to flame me all you want with your talk about ethics. I happen to think it's unethical to charge $200 bucks for a steel tube.
Almost. The one at FastTech without the drip tip has the correct number of airholes in the cap. The drip tip is findable on FT with a bit of searching.
But yeah, $17 vs. $210? It's a no brainer for most of us.
Edit: I'm talking about the Steam Turbine.
But yeah, $17 vs. $210? It's a no brainer for most of us.
Edit: I'm talking about the Steam Turbine.
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There's nothing unethical about offering a steel tube for sale at $200.
You probably won't sell much, but there's nothing unethical about it.
Almost. The one at FastTech without the drip tip has the correct number of airholes in the cap. The drip tip is findable on FT with a bit of searching.
But yeah, $17 vs. $210? It's a no brainer for most of us.
Edit: I'm talking about the Steam Turbine.
What is a correct number of airholes? So the FastTech one has a different number of airholes than some other one.
Different tires have different threads. What is there to be 'correct' about.
The questions are- does it work? Is it safe enough? What kind of quality is it? Unless by 'correct number of airholes' you mean its not going to work, it means nothing.
real steam turbine was meant for dual wicks so you need 2 sets of air holes.
i personally think that while its not UNETHICAL to offer a steel tube for sale for $200, but i feel its unethical to rip customers off by selling something that costs about $10 to make for $200 bucks...does that make any sense?...only way i can describe it...lol
i see it as taking advantage of customers in a business thats still, even after the years its been going, fairly new. probably sounds stupid, but i see it as the same as price gouging, like retailers did when hurricane Katrina hit, or when i went to ozzfest in norcal and they wouldnt let you bring in anything to drink from outside, but were charging $15 a pop FOR A BOTTLED WATER inside. the modders have no conscience at all on the matter, they get this "well, people are going to buy it, so ill sit back and collect the cash" thing going on and act like their kaakaa doesnt stink, then they cow, pizz and moan when someone copies their $200 item.what they just cant seem to get in their head (maybe their thinking,ect in korea,china,ect is off kilter or different) is that they would make way more money if they priced their items at a reasonable price. their sales would increase dramatically, and the instances of their work being cloned would likely drop way down also. under the right circumstances i would buy an authentic original item over a clone, such as if the clone was, say $50 and the original was $75. id by the original, but when the originals $200 and the clone is $50, its really a no brainer.
like i said, i have no feelings for the modders whatsoever when they charge what they do for what their offering.
this whole industry is dog eat dog.
my Poldiac clone says it will be here today. i have a couple of appointments but when i get back i will post pix of it.
i see it as taking advantage of customers in a business thats still, even after the years its been going, fairly new. probably sounds stupid, but i see it as the same as price gouging, like retailers did when hurricane Katrina hit, or when i went to ozzfest in norcal and they wouldnt let you bring in anything to drink from outside, but were charging $15 a pop FOR A BOTTLED WATER inside. the modders have no conscience at all on the matter, they get this "well, people are going to buy it, so ill sit back and collect the cash" thing going on and act like their kaakaa doesnt stink, then they cow, pizz and moan when someone copies their $200 item.what they just cant seem to get in their head (maybe their thinking,ect in korea,china,ect is off kilter or different) is that they would make way more money if they priced their items at a reasonable price. their sales would increase dramatically, and the instances of their work being cloned would likely drop way down also. under the right circumstances i would buy an authentic original item over a clone, such as if the clone was, say $50 and the original was $75. id by the original, but when the originals $200 and the clone is $50, its really a no brainer.
like i said, i have no feelings for the modders whatsoever when they charge what they do for what their offering.
this whole industry is dog eat dog.
my Poldiac clone says it will be here today. i have a couple of appointments but when i get back i will post pix of it.
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A 'real' steam turbine ?
A tire isn't a 'real' tire because it is designed a bit differently?
A tire isn't a 'real' tire because maybe it is lower quality and lower price?
There's nothing unethical about offering something for sale at a high price, and comparing it to a situation where people NEED the item is not a comparable analogy.
Some producers literally TARGET the high end market and do not advertise their product widely; there's nothing unethical about offering a Ferrari. Or a Porsche. People don't have to buy.
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No, perhaps not. Perhaps it's the vanity behind charging $200 for the steel tube that's unethical. Or the greed.
Exactly my thinking. And I'll take your thought a bit further to say they should sell it for a reasonable price and maybe make a special edition to sell at the higher prices. 24kt Gold Plating or other fanciness to make that special edition something the collector would want, and intentionally make a limited run. That way joe schmo can get the quality of the build, and Fancy Dan can feel they are really getting something special with the collector's edition that they can show off and brag about owning. I guarantee you if they had turned over their design to a chinese manufacturer and cut a deal on X% of each unit sold, and kept the price low enough to be affordable to a higher number of people, they would have made thousands of times more than making a limited number or not be able to make enough and charging four or five times what it's really worth.
If somebody makes a HAND MADE SHOE, and offers them for sale - that's a real example;
You can get what looks like the same design shoe but factory made for half to ten times less! There's nothing unethical about the guy who is HAND MAKING the SHOE on a small scale and selling them at a higher price.
That's just normal.
It's the whole reason people do mass production; making 1 single unit alone costs a lot of money, but my producing millions you drive down the costs per unit.
It's not realistic to ascribe 'rip off' 'unethical' or 'greed' to the price of a HAND MADE or limited quantiy product by comparing it to a mass produced product.
There is a HUGE difference between a Ferrari or Porsche vs a hyundai or kia thou so the difference in price is understandable. There really isnt much of a difference between a $200 mod and a 1:1 clone that copies it. Its all the same, a stainless steel tube that has a switch and a topcap.
Genisis-style attys should be excluded from the whole Anti-Clone outrage. Raidy stated from the beginning that his design was not to be used for profit. Therefore all genisis atty makers are stealing his design and have no ground to stand on.
You mean counterfeits? The definitely can't be sold here in classifieds.
What's the difference between a Da Vinci painting and a modern copy?
If you want an original you pay for it. The guy selling the original isn't doing anything unethical.
yea, but my question is this bro...
say you have a clone, a real 1:1 copy of a authentic item like thats being offered now on alot of the mods.....how do you tell its a clone?...im waiting on a new poldiac clone right now thats supposed to be a guaranteed 1:1 copy, indistinguishable from the original.....heck, like i said before, had a genuine authentic bla bla bla chi you. then i bought a clone that pretty much identical in every single way. i sold my authentic and bought another clone, so now i have two chi you clones. could i have sold my clone i paid $40 for and called it an original? you bet, 100% that i could have and 99.9.8% of the people out there wouldnt have known the difference at all. so let me ask you this. how do you know clones ARENT being sold as originals in the classifieds section?....you dont for sure, cause with some of this stuff, you cant tell the difference, even after owning the ORIGINAL!........now i can se if it was one of the el-cheapass fasttech clone of a clones, but the good quality stuff is as nice, and like i said before, in some cases NICER than the original.....so how can you tell if your buying a clone or not? buy from the modder? ok, so what keeps the modder from getting ...... over the whole clone thing and buying and reselling the CLONES as original product just to get back at the cloners and make that money? or maybe if you had the original box, but i dont save those, and what would keep people from putting a clone in the original box and selling it as original when in fact it is a clone? ive seen boxes for sale on ebay for everything from mods to guns cheap...cant go by the serial number cause like kato did with the hammer, they make an original run of X amount of items, then decide after the fact to make another run of the same and just pick up where they left off with the serial numbers, so now, someone cant say "thats a clone, the serial is 602 ( or whatever) but he only made 500!"..what if the cloners want their product as authentic as possible so they use the SAME SERIAL NUMBER RANGE as the modder did? then you cant even have a serial number lookup engine on your page cause the CLONE would have the SAME SERIAL RANGE as the originals!.... mojo makes a badge to go with his, but what keeps the cloners from cloning that too?
i wonder how many people out there are using their mods thinking they are a original product when in fact they are a clone?
just on the few what ifs i posted, would you be willing to go out and drop a couple of C notes on a mod that you havent a clue if its an original or not? i wouldnt thats for sure
theres to many variables bro, to many.
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