Cloning Milk and Honey

[DrLucky]

Some people say a almost sweet subtle citrus note, so that probably where you're getting the strawberry note, C4M3120N. Good, though, isn't it? Ty it in some different hardware, too. That affects flavor a lot, of course. I vape a quad coil 0.2 build and the flavor is phenomenal!

As far as that last batch, it either had too much Toasted Almond, not enough AP or just needed Peanut Butter to give that note more richness.

EDIT:
Added an extra 1.5% Peanut Butter to see if that brings it to where it should be. Or at least make it vapable, the exhaled almond tasted like bread mold...

 

[C4M3120N]

"Good" would be a criminal understatement, lol. Cosmic Fog Milk & Honey is currently the absolute best and most addictive e-liquid I have ever had the pleasure of trying. I've been vaping it on my new Kanger Subtank Mini for the past two days and you are absolutely correct, this juice needs to be Sub-Ohm'd to bring out its true potential. It's is indeed phenomenal and unless we can make an acceptable clone, this definitely will not be the only and last bottle I ever buy, lol.

So I just got a shipment of flavorings in today and I think it is safe to say that Graham Cracker is definitely one of the notes present in M&H, Just sniffing the bottles, Capella Graham Cracker V2 seems to be a really good match. On a more peculiar note, is that mysterious fruity taste in M&H and while I can't be certain, I think I may have found the culprit. Just on a whim I ordered a flavor from Flavor West called Unicorn Vomit and upon smelling it, it seems very likely that this could definitely be used in M&H in a very small percentage. I think it's either going to be that or another Flavor West flavor called Banana Split. I'll be mixing up some batches tonight and hopefully I'll have some good news for us tomorrow.

Just so you know, I am 110% dedicated to solving this riddle with you, lol.

My first attempt is going to be a mixture of the these three ingredients.

Graham Cracker (FW)
Unicorn Vomit (FW)
Banana Split (FW)

 

[DrLucky]

I'm glad you're joining us!
If you're just aiming for the main notes, that sounds like a fair place to start.
Otherwise, I'd say to add some small percentage of Marshmallow for the feel and body M&H has. At this point and 40+ different batches later, it's the only flavor I'm relatively confident in haha.
Careful with CAP Graham Cracker v2! Very strong spice note in it. For a while, I was adding small amounts of that along with regular TFA GC Clear to get enough graham cracker and not too much spice.
Somewhere along the way I dropped it completely for a spice note from another ingredient. I'll have to check my notes to see where that switch happened.

I'm looking at getting a lot of FW flavors next paycheck to see what I can find there if indeed Cosmic Fog uses many of their flavors. Did you say you ordered Toffee Dream Cream by flavor west?

 

[C4M3120N]

I did order some Flavor West Toffee Dream Cream, it should be here tomorrow, After playing around with a few of the Flavor West flavorings, I'm feeling much more confident that all the people who suggested Cosmic Fog uses Flavor West were definitely right.

With almost 110% certainly, I feel incredibly confident in saying that Flavor West Banana Split is without a doubt a key ingredient to Milk & Honey!

As per your suggestion I am going to add some Flavor West Marshmallow, I have other brands of marshmallow but I am leaning towards only trying to use Flavor West flavorings.

Graham Cracker (FW)
Unicorn Vomit (FW)
Banana Split (FW)
(^was tasting very close^)

...now adding Marshmallow (FW) to the mix per your suggestion.

 

[DrLucky]

You're the first person on this thread to suggest CM uses just the FW flavors, so you may be beating us to the secret already!
I could definitely imagine banana split being the creamy note underlying M&H
What does Unicorn Vomit taste like as a stand alone?

Also, what percentage of those ingredients did you try?

I believe FW has a Peanut butter as well, if you find your brew missing that "something" give that a try. PB has been a mainstay in most of the mixes used so far.

 

[Ycore]

I've been following this thread for a little while and as I am just really starting to get into the DIY juice, I am really interested to see how this goes. I've been playing around with lots of the flavors and making all sorts of interesting tastes. I am waiting for a shipment of flavors to arrive and since I'm living and working in Kuwait, it takes a while for the flavors to get here. I've ordered pretty much everything that you guys have been using plus some other flavors, ones that I can't remember right now, in the anticipation of trying to help out where I can. I have a bottle of the M&H on the way as a reference. I have several friends over here with me that are eagerly awaiting a good tasting clone as well so that they can just have me make e-juice for them instead of buying from online vendors and waiting the 3 weeks it takes to arrive. Anyway, once I get in my shipments, I'll try and contribute what I can.

 

[C4M3120N]

Hey DrLucky and other hopeful contributors.

I blew through my first 15ml bottle of M&H in a little less than 72 hours, lol. I have since, bought two more 30ml bottles from a local vape shop. Is $22 per 30ml reasonable? I'm certainly not used to paying so much for E-Liquid but this stuff is very addictive and such a pleasure to vape, it is definitely worth every cent. However, I could easily vape 5 to 10ml (sub-ohming) of this stuff a day, so we really need to figure out a clonable alternative before I become poor or start selling my body for more, lol.

I currently have 13, 6ml test batches steeping, they've been steeping for a couple of days, I like to let test batches steep for a week. I don't use any fancy speed steeping techniques, sorry. Only 4 of these batches have Peanut Butter, which I am now confident is a key ingredient, along with DrLucky. So I'm really only expecting one or two of my test batches to be useful. I do test all my sample batches within the hour after mixing to kind of gauge where I am at, and Flavor West Peanut Butter sweet spot seems to be about 1.5 - 3%. I was feeling confident that Unicorn Vomit was going to be a key player (it's a very strong tarty fruit mix) as it is very similar to that sweet/tarty exhale that M&H gives off, however even at 1% it is to over powering (at least in my preliminary batch testing). I'm now starting to think that Ethyl Maltol might be another key player in M&H. If your not familiar with it, it comes in crystal form, (mix 1/4Tsp of crystals with 10ml of PGA(Pure Grain Alcohol)), it's used as a sweetener and tastes a lot like cotton candy and I am even contemplating ordering some Flavor West Cotton Candy as well.

I mix all my batches with 20% total flavoring and 50/50 PG/VG
I'm only experimenting with using Flavor West flavorings and after doing several tests, I think it's safe to say with at least 90% certainty that Graham Cracker, Marshmallow, Peanut Butter and Banana Split are definitely key ingredients for anyone already on or anyone who is wishing to join this quest.

I'm hoping that at least one of my test batches will be close. I'll probably let the bottles steep for another 3 or 4 days before testing again, and let you know my findings.

My last and most promising batch (#13) is:

FW Graham Cracker 8%
FW Marshmallow 5%
FW Banana Split 4%
FW Peanut Butter 3% (though I'm thinking of dropping Peanut Butter down to 2% and raising Banana Split up to 5%)
2 Drops Ethyl Maltol per 6ml
1 Drop Vape Wizard per 6ml (I apologize for the drop measurements, I'll provide actual ml if successful)

 

[C4M3120N]

On a side not, when I went to buy some more Cosmic Fog Milk & Honey at one of my local vape shops. I was able to try to the other Cosmic Fog E-Liquids. I didn't really care for any of them but the guy behind the counter had me try some E-Liquid from The Vapor Hut called Beetle Joose and I'm not going to lie, if you love Milk & Honey, your going to like Beetle Joose too!

 

[matrix961]

I decided to skip my initial plan to come up with a UM recipe and just jump into Milk & Honey. I've already found a few good UM recipes so I figured, why bother. Milk & Honey is very interesting. I bought my first bottle on Sunday and had it vaped by Monday evening lol. My second bottle is almost gone after a day as well. Vaping this on my RDA is so good.

I already have quite a few flavors from CAP and TFA so I just put an order into FW for some of the flavors already discussed, especially the banana split.

I've already started to do some tests with a few flavors I already have. One thing I'm noticing is when smelling the original bottle It seems I'm getting a light almost nut flavor. In comparing it to the flavors I already have it's a lot like vanilla butternut, I have the lorann's version of this right now but did order the FW version since the Lorann's is almost black in color LOL. Anyways I'll see if the FW version still has the same notes. Can't wait to get going on this.

 

[C4M3120N]

Hey matrix961, welcome to the quest. I share your same problem in vaping M&H bottles rapidly, lol. This stuff is simply the best liquid I have ever had and I can't get enough of it.

I know I speak for all of us trying, we definitely appreciate the extra help in cracking this recipe. The more the better.

I like the Vanilla Butternut suggestion and after reading that I immediately went and compared the scents of Peanut Butter vs Vanilla Butternut and they are incredibly similar. I only have VB in Lorann. And as to it being dark, that could be a good thing because M&H does have a dark brown golden color to it, that none of my now 15 test batches have developed. I'll try replacing the PB with VB in my next batch. I'm probably going to try it at about 1.5%. So thanks for the suggestion.

 

[matrix961]

Hey matrix961, welcome to the quest. I share your same problem in vaping M&H bottles rapidly, lol. This stuff is simply the best liquid I have ever had and I can't get enough of it.

I know I speak for all of us trying, we definitely appreciate the extra help in cracking this recipe. The more the better.

I like the Vanilla Butternut suggestion and after reading that I immediately went and compared the scents of Peanut Butter vs Vanilla Butternut and they are incredibly similar. I only have VB in Lorann. And as to it being dark, that could be a good thing because M&H does have a dark brown golden color to it, that none of my now 15 test batches have developed. I'll try replacing the PB with VB in my next batch. I'm probably going to try it at about 1.5%. So thanks for the suggestion.

It would be interesting to try with the VB but also note that I'm vaping M&H 0mg nic and the juice is clear. So the dark color in yours would be the nicotine aging. What nicotine levels are your original M&H bottles?

The VB from flavorwest is listed as "color level: clear" so I'm hoping it has the same light nutty note I'm smelling in the LA version.

 

[C4M3120N]

Ahhh, well that definitely is some very good information to know, about your M&H being clear (perfectly clear, not even a slight yellow tinge?) That is also extra encouraging because all of the Flavorwest Flavors I have tried in this experiment so far (with the exclusion of Toffee Dream Cream) are all clear. Which would also conclude for me that MTS Vape Wizard is also not an ingredient if yours is completely clear.

So thank you very much for sharing that information with me! I Subohm M&H at 6mg and it's crazy to think that such a small amount of nicotine could cause such a dramatic change in color.

I will skip my experiment tonight with the LorAnn Vanilla Butternut and just keep using the Flavor West Peanut Butter in my mixes until I place another order for some more flavorings in a couple weeks.

I'm also happy to hear your going to be trying to mix with Flavor West as well. Definitely get Graham Cracker, Marshmallow, Banana Split and Peanut Butter with whatever else you are planning to order.

My latest test batch #15 smells dead on sniffing the bottles side by side (I can't tell them apart). It's only been steeping for two days so I haven't tried it yet. I might give it a shot tonight just to see where it's at because it smells the closest I have come yet.

Milk & Honey Test Batch #15

Graham Cracker FW 6%
Marshmallow FW 6%
Banana Split FW 6.5%
Peanut Butter FW 1.5%
2 Drops MTS Vape Wizard 1% (which I will probably drop out for batch #16 because of matrix961's clear M&H 0mg statement)
3 Drops Ethyl Maltol 1.5%

 

[matrix961]

Ahhh, well that definitely is some very good information to know, about your M&H being clear (perfectly clear, not even a slight yellow tinge?) That is also extra encouraging because all of the Flavorwest Flavors I have tried in this experiment so far (with the exclusion of Toffee Dream Cream) are all clear. Which would also conclude for me that MTS Vape Wizard is also not an ingredient if yours is completely clear.

So thank you very much for sharing that information with me! I Subohm M&H at 6mg and it's crazy to think that such a small amount of nicotine could cause such a dramatic change in color.

I will skip my experiment tonight with the LorAnn Vanilla Butternut and just keep using the Flavor West Peanut Butter in my mixes until I place another order for some more flavorings in a couple weeks.

I'm also happy to hear your going to be trying to mix with Flavor West as well. Definitely get Graham Cracker, Marshmallow, Banana Split and Peanut Butter with whatever else you are planning to order.

My latest test batch #15 smells dead on sniffing the bottles side by side (I can't tell them apart). It's only been steeping for two days so I haven't tried it yet. I might give it a shot tonight just to see where it's at because it smells the closest I have come yet.

Milk & Honey Test Batch #15

Graham Cracker FW 6%
Marshmallow FW 6%
Banana Split FW 6.5%
Peanut Butter FW 1.5%
2 Drops MTS Vape Wizard 1% (which I will probably drop out for batch #16 because of matrix961's clear M&H 0mg statement)
3 Drops Ethyl Maltol 1.5%

I put it against white light and it is clear but at some times when i turn it, i think i notice a yellow tinge but its really light. Ill have to check again in sunlight tomorrow.
Looking forward to hearing about your batch 15.

Edit: Yeah definitely clear. The label having a yellowish coloring or something else playing tricks on my eyes was messing me up last night. I took a dropper full and looked at it when I got to work this morning. It's definitely clear for me, now my second bottle is all gone LOL. FW still hasn't shipped my goodies yet. I expect today or Monday so most likely the end of next week before I can really jump in.

 

[DrLucky]

Hey everyone! Glad to see a lot of progress! I've been out of some key ingredients, so I haven't gotten to make any test batches lately. I'll be ordering flavors today though.
I plan to stock up on all the FW flavors just mentioned, any others I should add while I'm at at it?
Where do you suggest I order FW from?

Yeah M&H with no nic is perfectly clear but also tastes slightly different to me. Does FW have a version or something similar to MTS wizard?

C4M3210N, 20% flavoring seems like a lot! Is FW not as concentrated as FA?

I'm looking for a comprehensive list of all FW flavors, if anyone has that off hand, I'd definitely appreciate it.

For those who are on a "beta" stage in your cloning process, PM me and I'll make edits to the OP with a "where we are now" section crediting you and quoting your recipe so people who don't read or skip to the latest posts can see where we're at.

 

[BI00dR3D]

Just posting to follow.

 

[C4M3120N]

Hey matrix961, Thank you for double checking and confirming that M&H 0mg is practically perfectly clear. That is definitely useful information!

Hey DrLucky, I like to shop at ecigexpress for most of my DIY supplies, they have fair prices and reasonable and fast shipping. While some flavors are out of stock from time to time, they sell 167 FW flavors and they sell everything in nice little 10ml child proof bottles, or larger if you prefer. I do place smaller orders from other places as well, but only if ecigexpress doesn't have what I want, which is rare.

20% flavoring may be a bit on the strong side, so your definitely right that it might be to much. I usually try to keep my total % at 10 to 15 or lower if I can on most of my other mixes. However M&H does have an incredibly strong flavor % imo, which is what I would imagine most high volume producers would use. Also, it probably could be argued that many FW flavors are weaker than a lot of other top brands. The actual Flavor West website lists all their flavors on their site but they often have horrible to no descriptions or reviews on most of them. I have not yet found this list you seek in one place, lol. Though ecigexpress does have better descriptions and at least a few reviews for most of what they sell.

One flavor I'm currently wishing I did have but I don't (and I don't want to just order one flavor) would be FW Cotton Candy. I'd like to try using it in the place of the Ethyl Maltol, as an alternate sweetener. I don't like the alcohol base in the Ethyl Maltol. A few reviews I read on it said it was a good flavor but that it was fairly week, which for this purpose is perfect for me because I want it to be subtle. I've read a quite a few arguments stating that Ethyl Maltol and Cotton Candy flavors are very similar, which would make sense seeing that Ethyl Maltol is typically used to make real cotton candy. However I am becoming more and more certain that Cotton Candy or Ethyl Maltol is going to be another key player in cracking the M&H code.

And even though I am now confident that Unicorn Vomit is not a key player in M&H (at least at the %'ages I have tried) It is definitely a flavor I would recommend anyone to try, it's very interesting, lol.

 

[mail_man_j]

I don't know anything about the specific ingredients to m and h but when I started diy my cousin sent me to flavor west. I liked some of the flavors I tried but I moved on. I currently mix with fa and capellas.

Flavor west compared to everything else I have tried on the market is no where near as concentrated. The upside is fw sells flavors in 4 ounce bottles for around 7 bucks. That is a ton of juice for an amazing price.

 

[ckquatt]

Hey matrix961, Thank you for double checking and confirming that M&H 0mg is practically perfectly clear. That is definitely useful information!

Hey DrLucky, I like to shop at ecigexpress for most of my DIY supplies, they have fair prices and reasonable and fast shipping. While some flavors are out of stock from time to time, they sell 167 FW flavors and they sell everything in nice little 10ml child proof bottles, or larger if you prefer. I do place smaller orders from other places as well, but only if ecigexpress doesn't have what I want, which is rare.

20% flavoring may be a bit on the strong side, so your definitely right that it might be to much. I usually try to keep my total % at 10 to 15 or lower if I can on most of my other mixes. However M&H does have an incredibly strong flavor % imo, which is what I would imagine most high volume producers would use. Also, it probably could be argued that many FW flavors are weaker than a lot of other top brands. The actual Flavor West website lists all their flavors on their site but they often have horrible to no descriptions or reviews on most of them. I have not yet found this list you seek in one place, lol. Though ecigexpress does have better descriptions and at least a few reviews for most of what they sell.

One flavor I'm currently wishing I did have but I don't (and I don't want to just order one flavor) would be FW Cotton Candy. I'd like to try using it in the place of the Ethyl Maltol, as an alternate sweetener. I don't like the alcohol base in the Ethyl Maltol. A few reviews I read on it said it was a good flavor but that it was fairly week, which for this purpose is perfect for me because I want it to be subtle. I've read a quite a few arguments stating that Ethyl Maltol and Cotton Candy flavors are very similar, which would make sense seeing that Ethyl Maltol is typically used to make real cotton candy. However I am becoming more and more certain that Cotton Candy or Ethyl Maltol is going to be another key player in cracking the M&H code.

And even though I am now confident that Unicorn Vomit is not a key player in M&H (at least at the %'ages I have tried) It is definitely a flavor I would recommend anyone to try, it's very interesting, lol.

Why don't you get the EM crystals and dissolve them in PG. That way you can take the alcohol out of the equation. I got mine at Wizard Labs. 1/4 teaspoon in 10ml of PG.

 

[C4M3120N]

Hey, Thank you for the advice ckquatt! The brief reading I have done on EM all suggested that it be disolved in pure grain alcohol. I already have some EM crystals from TFA so I just made a bottle with PG per your suggestion. And I'm dumping out the other bottle, lol. Thank you again for pointing that out to me!

 

[ckquatt]

Hey, Thank you for the advice ckquatt! The brief reading I have done on EM all suggested that it be disolved in pure grain alcohol. I already have some EM crystals from TFA so I just made a bottle with PG per your suggestion. And I'm dumping out the other bottle, lol. Thank you again for pointing that out to me!

No prob! Its takes a minute for it to dissolve. I had to put the bottle in a cup of hot water for 10 minutes or so then shake it like it owed me money! LOL! I hope it works for you!

I've been sub'ed to this thread for a while to lurk. Heres to hoping you get it figured out!!!

I've been working on a clone myself (sort of)! I've taken what I like most from my All Day Vape (Pluid) and bumped it up a few notches and added a couple things along the way. I think the only thing that's the same is the Absinthe flavorings!

I do know it looks just like it! LOL!

But it's not an Absinthe juice if it's not GREEEEN!!!!