Cloud Chaser Builds

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Nanooks

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Feb 1, 2013
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Let me start this post off with my intent. I do not attend or participate with these competitions on who can blow the biggest / most dense cloud. I don't think they are bad, I just choose not to make it into a competition. If someone uses an ego / with a vivi nova and they stay off analogs, I am happy for them. With me, I need that dense vape to stay off analogs. The sub-ohm rebuildable users actually make up a small section of the vaping community as a whole. Safety, difficulty, and consistency all need to be balanced, and is not easy to achieve with all vapors. There are tons of posts for mods, and vapor devices. There is not a lot of threads on the advanced setups. Cloud chasing often refers to competition, and extreme vaping. I don't want to encourage competition, or taking safety risks of 0.05 ohm setups. I would like to discuss and share information on achieving large volume, high density vapor. I am no expert, nor will ever claim to know everything about vaping, I will just write what I have experienced. That being said here are some basics I have come to understand.

The more surface contact the coils have with the wick, the more vapor that can be produced. The more air that can contact the coils, the more vapor can be delivered by the device. The less air resistance achieved, the less vapor is lost. I have found these 3 fundamentals are the base of any coil build. You can have the best / most expensive hardware, and have a low watt cartomizer outperform it. You can spend $20 on a mech mod, and $10 on a RDA and blow dense clouds. There are tons of posts on what mods are best, and what RDA's are best, so I wont bring any of that up. Lets talk builds.

My cookie cutter build right now is a cotton wick dual coil 24 gauge 6-7 wrap around a 3mm, 1/8 in bit. It clocks in around 0.35 ohms. I tend to keep my batteries topped off and recharge them around 3.8 to 4 volts. 28 gauge was to brittle to work with, haven't done 22 gauge cause I didn't want to go lower on the ohms. Thinking about trying the 26 gauge, but everyone keeps saying 24 is the gauge is the best to stick with. I have tried 5-6 wrap, and is a little hot. 7-8 wrap is a little slow response time. Tried 2.4 mm, 3/32 in build as well as 2mm, 5/64 in build. I found wicking was an issue as well as loss of flavor, but the 3mm build takes up a lot of space. I am considering trying a quad coil build, so I may try the 26 gauge with a 7-8 or 8-9 wrap and would love to try 4mm, 5/32 in. That takes up a lot of room and will cut off a lot of airflow. I have a 26650 mod with a 28.5 mm RDA on order, so the airflow then wont be an issue, plus going from 30 amps to 50 amps makes me a lot more comfortable trying a quad coil setup with a 24-26 gauge wire.

Quick word about juice. Its all preference. I started vaping the standard 50/50 PG/VG blend. Even with wide open airflow I would get a lot of spitting, but a very hard throat hit. My first experience with 100% VG wasn't great. It had an odd taste and I didn't get that throat hit like I used to. I tried a couple higher than 90% vg mixes, Ruthless and Endless Clouds brand and it was better. Then I learned / tried Heather's Heavenly Vapes purity line that was 100% pure VG. Been my all day vape ever since and buy the 100ml bottles. Tried going back to 50/50 blend and had a very hard time vaping it. I guess you could say once you go 100% VG you never go back. At least for me.

That's what I got. Would love to hear others preferences. I would like to increase vapor density / volume without going to a hot vape.
 

Blackboar

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Mar 17, 2014
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My go-to build for clouds is a dual coil using twisted 28 gauge on my Magma RDA. It has a resistance of 0.28 ohms currently, I aimed for 0.3. It's 6 wraps around a 6/64 drill bit, mounted directly above the airholes in the Magma. Of course, for clouds, I use the dual 3mm airholes.

I'm also testing a single coil, parallel coil in my Trident, as well. It's a 24 gauge parallel coil with 5 wraps. Resistance is 0.31, I was also aiming for 0.3. Really nice, so far, more dense clouds than the twisted 28. But I prefer the flavor on the twisted 28 dual coils, for now.
 

Nanooks

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Quad.jpg
Tried the quad build. First attempt, so its not pretty or perfect. 28 gauge Kanthal is finicky compared to the 24 gauge. Used the parallel method to feed the center post but forked the wire to do make individual coils. 5 wraps at .37 ohms. Still a cool vape, flavor is a little muted, but clouds are a little more dense. I think the parallel wrap was a little better to be honest.
 
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treehead

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Feb 18, 2014
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yea im with you on 24 gauge. i just did a parallel wrap at .30 ohms. works great because of the surface area of a parallel with keeping the resistance low

Like thiiiiiiiiiiis?
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(24ga parallel macro coil, dual with consecutive wires, wrapped 4 times on something slightly smaller than 1/8th" bit)
It was hard as hell to build this one and have it look pretty, because it's all in one (well 2) consecutive wires, I basically wrapped one inside the Tobh Atty's deck. I'd seriously rather drill out my posts before I do that again lol. But it resulted in a perfect, evenly heated vape. It wasn't exactly my idea of a cloud chaser build (on an 18650 mechanical anyway), but it was darn near close, and definitely more flavorful than your usual smaller coil foggers. This one came out to .4ohms, my sweet spot.

This has been the best coil setup for me to chase clouds, in fact I've actually won a cloud competition in my hometown with it. (dual 24ga nano coils, wrapped on a micro-screwdriver slightly smaller than 1/16th", wicked with shiseido cotton, and juiced with 100% VG of course, usually comes out to .17-.2ohms)

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Depending on how you wick it, most of the time I have better clouds tilting my coils vertically. I think because instead of shooting the newly produced vapor straight down into the deck (as would a horizontal usually), it shoots vapor nearly 360 degrees into open airspace in the chamber, and half of it into the airflow.

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This setup is my all day vape, really short 1 second pulls, but you still get 3 foot dense clouds, it's supernatural almost.
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Sorry for the blurriness, I just took that because I'm vaping on it right now! :D

Another epic build that makes vapor a little faster, but kills the flavor, is some dual super-nano coils wicked with a cow's hitch knot, I call it "noose wicking" :p, just kidding I don't call it anything, but as far as I know I came up with it. It works alot better than dragon wicking IME because it keeps the wick tight around the coils, turning them into cannons (if you've ever tried dragon wicking and seen the cotton getting "pushed away" from the coils, that makes them less efficient. It took me FOREVER to get a really satisfying dual super-nano vape.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/557359-i-heard-you-liked-perfection.html

Cheers! Keep on spittin' y'all!
 

treehead

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Feb 18, 2014
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Anchorage, AK, USA
Too bad i cant have that low of ohms on my mvp :( i need more money so the hubby will let me get a new mod :vape:

I've been there Vixen, if your looking for a good cheap mechanical, my favorite of all time is the Turtleship V2 clone, yes clone by HCigar.

I own quite a few authentics, including a LE red copper stingray, which is praised to be one of the best performing mechanicals ever, but there's something magical about this clone. Tested by me and hundreds of reviews have confirmed that it's definitely better than the V2 authentic (which I owned first go figure, I bought it for parts, and found out that it came with better silver contacts, and a magnetic button that can't be beat), and it's voltage drop is as good if not better than most copper mechanicals. The red copper stingray of mine has a .08 volt drop, which is so good it's almost unheard of, and this purdy stainless steel Turtleship V2 clone (which is only $20 by the way!) has a voltage drop of .09! But the flawless button, and problem free nature of it keep me coming back, it's seriously the best button I've ever tried by far, you just have to try to understand. This mod is 100% satisfying, and I say that with confidence, I haven't ran into one problem!

Give it a shot if you want to try some lower ohms, I guarantee you won't regret spending the $20!
Turtle Ship V2 Stainless Steel BY Hcigar Mechanical MOD Clone BY Geobuksun | eBay
 

treehead

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Feb 18, 2014
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Anchorage, AK, USA
View attachment 345679
Tried the quad build. First attempt, so its not pretty or perfect. 28 gauge Kanthal is finicky compared to the 24 gauge. Used the parallel method to feed the center post but forked the wire to do make individual coils. 5 wraps at .37 ohms. Still a cool vape, flavor is a little muted, but clouds are a little more dense. I think the parallel wrap was a little better to be honest.

Try either of these out brother, I've been trying to find ways to make quad coils beat duals and I just can't seem too, but these come REALLY close.
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Not sure what the horizontal, vertical combo did, but it's the best of both worlds. It "boxes in" the airflow, and makes super dense, and flavorful vapor, they're sharing the wick which I think helps.

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This one was 2x better than any quad I've ever built, basically a dual coil, but cut in half and layed side by side, so there's 2x the wick to the same amount of wraps. This NEVER gave me a dry-hit, and produced plumes of vapor. Perfect shape of most airflow's too, a definite must.
 

Nanooks

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Feb 1, 2013
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Decided after the quad build to revisit some things since my tabs were now gone on my Tobh. The 8-7 wrap was still to slow response, but being able to do a center post build sure changed the vape. I went smaller on my 6-5 build to 2mm, and 2.4mm and loved the density of both, but settled i'm to the 2.4mm. That center post makes all the difference. Going to have to try the quad version of that when I get my 26650 Tobh
 
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sunminkin

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Dec 11, 2013
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Michigan
All the TOBH love, I want one. BAD. But really only so I can build bigger coils than this xD

.16 ohm dual 22 gauge, single strand, 6 wraps around a 3/32 drill bit. I've been stuck dripping some 60pg/40vg from a B&M while I wait for my vape mail and its been blowing some silly clouds even with that.

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Using a safe battery of course, VTC5 all day. Here she is firing up

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Blowing some clouds, sorry for all the crappy pictures. I'm taking these all with my webcam on my laptop. lol

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treehead

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Feb 18, 2014
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Anchorage, AK, USA
This was on a copper quasar btw

Very nice, I've had my eye on the quasar since I started vaping, I love it's super thick walls mainly. I didn't even know they had a copper version! Definitely going to get that if I ever pull the trigger on buying one, one thing I've always wondered; do the copper caps ever patina on the inside? I mean they can always be polished and cleaned with lemon juice, but I didn't know if it ever got bad. I may end up buying a copper tobh cap one of these days to try it out, I've never minded copper smell or anything, but I keep imagining a penny taste, which is whatever, I'm not picky! I'm sure that layer of juice keeps the taste away if any though.
 

treehead

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Feb 18, 2014
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Anchorage, AK, USA
Decided after the quad build to revisit some things since my tabs were now gone on my Tobh. The 8-7 wrap was still to slow response, but being able to do a center post build sure changed the vape. I went smaller on my 6-5 build to 2mm, and 2.4mm and loved the density of both, but settled i'm to the 2.4mm. That center post makes all the difference. Going to have to try the quad version of that when I get my 26650 Tobh

Great minds think alike I guess nooks, I've got a 28.5mm tobh on the way myself, and I hated those teeth because I always keep it wide open anyway. I also added an extra two 1/16th" holes right above the original 3, which is highly recommended as it's made so much more vapor, then again I like a big cool vape.

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Even with it all frankensteined up though, I still get really warm vapes with my favorite builds. I'm sure you've already figured it out already, but even stock you can get much much bigger clouds in the tobh if you lower your ohm's. I noticed that your wrapping 5-6 or even 7-8 on a 5/64th drill bit, which isn't taking advantage of what the tobh can take. (again, I'm sure you already figured out what you like best, I'm just trying to be helpful.)

I'm using 24ga, and usually wrap on 1/16th" guide (well slightly smaller, it's a micro-screwdriver), and I'm wrapping 4 or 5 times, it usually comes out to .2ohm's on the dot, and that's been my favorite with the Tobh so far, heck since I got my sony 26650 50amp, I just wrapped a parallel coil with 5 wraps on the same 1/16". It's really warm, and gives me supernatural vapor in 1 second pulls, comes out to .09 ohms. For me no quad coil the 30amp batteries can muster has worked for me, but I'm thinking a 50amp battery might be able to do something worthwhile.

Are you doing different (8-7) coil wraps? If so that might be why you were getting dry hits on your vertical coils, I've found when trying to cloud chase, it's alot less of a hassle to get your coils perfectly balanced. But then again I haven't tried it in some time, what's your method of different wrapped coils?
 

treehead

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Feb 18, 2014
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Anchorage, AK, USA
MY SONY 26650 50 AMP VT FINALLY CAME IN! Whoo! I was determined to see what it could do with my first build on the mutant, with the brass monkee, and I'm not dissapointed. I basically took my favorite build and paralleled it:

24ga parallel, dual nano-coils wrapped on a micro-screwdriver of (slightly smaller than) 1/16th"), and wicked with some fancy shmancy japanese Shiseido cotton (my girlfriend uses it for her make-up, and I'm using more than her now lol).

It's really warm, and really dense with the stock airflow, I'm thinking I'll be drilling the three air-holes into one big cyclops. I can't say I don't like it though. I've never had a build that was what I consider truly warm until this one, and it's 0.1 ohms, that's probably why (don't worry I have an extra 8 amps to go for even continuous rating, don't wanna hear it.). Double the surface area of my favorite build is nice too, I haven't had any dry hits sneak up on me, it's a really hearty and full vape, I'm really loving it, this one will stay in the chamber for a while, I'm afraid to even breathe on it it's so perfect (for what I like). (have you guys ever had those builds that you just couldn't take out for a while? you drop it on the ground and your heart skips a beat because it might be crushed?)


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I don't think I've ever built such perfect parallel's before either, besides the connections, it looks like a regular'ol 8 wrap.

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This build is so ......'off, had to take the pic like 1 second after firing because without airflow, it gets too hot and burns away all the juice.

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Lol looks like an actual rain cloud near the top with the computer screen behind it.


I figured since I'll be messing around with a 50amp limit from now on, I'd better invest in an ohm meter. For a while now I've been so used to the VTC4 30amps, I've just been building by feel, hopefully the ohm meter is nearly here. I can't believe I'm excited about an ohm meter, no more fiddling and subtracting with a multimeter!

Cheers! :vapor:
 

Nanooks

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Feb 1, 2013
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The dry hits was mostly caused by not enough cotton, or too dry cotton. The lesser part was centering the coils so it could wick from both ends. I found with the Tobh with the tab right there trying to get that cotton into the juice well and past the negative coil lead was not only a pain, but restrictive.
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That's what I got now.
 
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