And adding ammunition for ANTZ to use is fine in your book?
Totally BS and you know it. It's to protect vapers right to vape. Northern CA has it's own chapter.
Cloud9vaping pulls Five Pawns and other liquids from the shelf after testing.
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And adding ammunition for ANTZ to use is fine in your book?
Totally BS and you know it. It's to protect vapers right to vape. Northern CA has it's own chapter.
Shoot the messenger and kick the ball down the road where ANTZ are playing/testing?
No it isn't - but neither is pretending that this issue isn't already out there and our response isn't important. Not adding ammunition to ANTZ doesn't mean we ignore issues that matter to a great number of the vaping community and is based on information that is out there in the public domain for anyone to see. Sit down, shut up and stick your head in the sand isn't the answer for me. We need to tackle it by being open, transparent - not by sitting on results for 9 months whilst at the same time saying they are something else.
I bet this mysterious ANTZ Secret Vaping Police have never heard of diketones until this thread. Not like it's been on TV or in print or anything.......
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So what Retailers ( or Individuals ) have sent samples of Five Pawns to an Independent Lab to be Tested?
I have One set of result from Five Pawns that aren't Very Encouraging. And I have Another Set of results from someone who was Selling Five Pawns and those Results are a Train Wreck.
I have One set of result from Five Pawns that aren't Very Encouraging. And I have Another Set of results from someone who was Selling Five Pawns and those Results are a Train Wreck.
One of the senior officers of a large trade group makes a public statement that makes the industry look like it is made up of unruly teenagers living in mommy's basement who are too incompetent to come up with their own industry standards for testing for potential harmful chemicals in the product they sell. This is apparently because they are far too busy getting into public feuds over thieving one another's intellectual property and labelling their juice with cartoon characters.
Let me take a wild guess that no professional PR person nor lobbyist approved this blather. Mr. Burton can certainly lay claim to having mastered the fine art of delivering free ammo to the enemy.
I'll take a full pass on Mr. Burton "defending" my right to vape.
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It would seem to me that if Five Pawns believes that the Results from the Lab Cloud9 used were in error, that they would be Encouraging their retailers to send out Samples for Independent Lab Testing.
Has this Occurred?
BTW - If there is Supposedly "no standardized test for diacetyl and some other hazardous substances", why would I put Any Faith in the Test Results that Five Pawns did on their e-Liquids back in 2014? Using the Lab that they Hand Picked.
I'll tell you what adds ammunition for ANTZ to use: When a major (and formerly highly respected) juice manufacturer has their juice tested themselves, finds very high levels of diketones, buries the results for a year, changes nothing, and lies to consumers about it the whole time by denying that there are diketones in their product. Questioning whether diketones might be harmful, stating that one wishes to to avoid them, and insisting that manufacturers should tell the truth when asked a direct question doesn't.
I used to say that about my "late afternoon cigarette", the one i smoked when I was done with chores and work.
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Here's the new paradigm:
1) Testing from big government-affiliated laboratories are unacceptable to vapers.
2) Testing from pretty much any other laboratory, Ethalpy, etc., will be found in error by any eliquid manufacturer who doesn't like their test results, and those labs will be subject to legal action.
So I guess the answer to Nomoreach's question is: see above.
Every day, vendors across the U.S., but moreso in the UK and CAN, have test results posted right on the page when you click on ejuice to buy.
Pretty soon, lists will not be necessary.
As of right now, vaporshark carries about a dozen eliquid brands, and each one has a test result attached.
Shopping will be getting easier soon.
Companies like Generals in UK, and Totally Wicked, will probably have results up by end of week, etc.
This is the way going forward.
Here's the new paradigm:
1) Testing from big government-affiliated laboratories are unacceptable to vapers.
2) Testing from pretty much any other laboratory, Ethalpy, etc., will be found in error by any eliquid manufacturer who doesn't like their test results, and those labs will be subject to legal action.
So I guess the answer to Nomoreach's question is: see above.
Yeah... The Only Lab Results we should Trust are those that Five Pawns did back in 2014.
Randomized Testing using an Independent Certified Laboratories that have No Monetary Ties to the Product being tested Doesn't sound like a very Sound approach.
I was wondering more About DIY Flavorings.
Linda at TPA has notes on acetoin, AP, butryic acid, and diacetyls on all the flavorings. I imagine she has spend quite a lot of time and effort getting this info from her suppliers.
She also lists flavorings that have been reformulated to remove AP, etc. example:
Perfumers Apprentice - DX Banana Cream
as well as ones that still contain diketones, like this one:
Perfumers Apprentice - Vanilla Bean Ice Cream Flavor
There are a lot of e-liquid vendors on this very site that if tested could be the same if not worse. The whole thing seems sketchy and Grey.
Good news, the more this is pumped up the sooner we can get more regulation from the Gov and states. Better yet, end up smoking cigs again because it gets banned or buy all of our juice from RJ Reynolds. So of the BEST ways government or Big tobacco can be affective is through social decay from the inside out. Some people..just paid to sit around and turn firewood into burning cities so they can save us from ourselves.
Grass roots becomes mainstream becomes regulated and then new grass roots of something else will start all over. I'm just middle of the road on all of this, but I respect everyone's rights to know, but I can't help think many who are "shocked" are still vaping on crap in their stash they have no clue about on testing. I have a closet of Madtownvap, Cuttwood, Sirius Vapors, Rocky Mountain, Casey Jones, Red Rock. All purchased based on the fact that I wanted to quite smoking and that it is probably is better for me than cigs. That was it, no real data or proof.
I can kill my liver on prescription meds and alcohol, skin cancer from tanning (not that I tan, I wish I could) and the list goes on. I have no doubt everyone is fudging something on ingredients. I guess we need the FDA...
Good news, the more this is pumped up the sooner we can get more regulation from the Gov and states. Better yet, end up smoking cigs again because it gets banned or buy all of our juice from RJ Reynolds. So of the BEST ways government or Big tobacco can be affective is through social decay from the inside out. Some people..just paid to sit around and turn firewood into burning cities so they can save us from ourselves.
Grass roots becomes mainstream becomes regulated and then new grass roots of something else will start all over. I'm just middle of the road on all of this, but I respect everyone's rights to know, but I can't help think many who are "shocked" are still vaping on crap in their stash they have no clue about on testing. I have a closet of Madtownvap, Cuttwood, Sirius Vapors, Rocky Mountain, Casey Jones, Red Rock. All purchased based on the fact that I wanted to quite smoking and that it is probably is better for me than cigs. That was it, no real data or proof.
I can kill my liver on prescription meds and alcohol, skin cancer from tanning (not that I tan, I wish I could) and the list goes on. I have no doubt everyone is fudging something on ingredients. I guess we need the FDA...
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And I started working on one, based on TPA/TFA stuff, here: Post [HASHTAG]#231[/HASHTAG]
Diketones-free vendors | Page 12 | E-Cigarette Forum
That would be excellent.
Vendors who sell a lot of DIY flavors should do the same for those flavors, particularly if the flavor manufacturer won't provide a certificate of analysis.
Of course. That is why vapers who wish to vape DAP-free are looking to purchase from companies with published test results. Something we have been waiting for for a long time, and which is finally coming to fruition.
Consumers who wish to vape DAP eliquids can continue to vape them, either by looking for DAP in the test results, or by purchasing from vendors who do not provide tests.
There is something for everyone.
Not at all. It's not like the regulators don't know about diketones. The vaping industry, if it polices itself, will make that an non-issue. They will have tests to show. That is why the big names in the UK, and many in the U.S. like MOV, started getting ahead of the curve quite some time ago.....they will be in business when and if the regulators start hassling them.
As an example: I work in dog and horse rescue as a volunteer, this attitude of "whispering" about abuses has done untold damage and brought unspeakable suffering to the animals when people who "don't get it" would suggest not exposing what was going on, lest PETA got hold of the information.
thankfully, there are still people in the rescue community who will turn in the abusers, and litigate against them if necessary and even though we hate PETA we really do not care what they "make of it." We are trying to save lives and end suffering, and those who do not follow correct practices in caring for dogs and horses will be called up and called out.
those who want to sweep things under the rug because of fears of "who might get hold of the info" are not helping at all.
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