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Commissioner warns it could be ‘game over’ for popular e-cigarettes if use continues to rise among y

Discussion in 'FDA Regulations' started by sofarsogood, Jan 19, 2019.

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  1. Zazie

    Zazie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 2, 2018
    Maine, USA
    At the least, they were inhaling a ton of secondhand smoke.

    There is one way vaping may attract some teenagers who would never consider smoking: it is a hell of a lot easier to conceal from adults.
     
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  2. dripster

    dripster Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    Realistically, I'd say the correct answer is that the contrast between "vaping epidemic among teens" and "regular use is rare and is almost entirely confined to those who have smoked" is rather beyond astronomical, especially in view of the fact the "gateway effect" is also nothing more than an obvious imagination. Remember a lot of parents very often are easy to scare with makebelief so basically there's a lying epidemic among the powers that be, and IMO it actually even borders on the edge of despotism.
     
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  3. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    You kinda Lost me there.

    What, Exactly, is this the Correct Answer to?
     
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  4. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    I'm not sure how effective that would be. Of course our rulers could remove cigarettes from the formal market, but that wouldn't prevent an informal market from quickly replacing a substantial portion of it. As evidence, see the use rates of "other stuff", for which no formal market has existed in anywhere in the US until very recently.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  5. dripster

    dripster Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    Seeing as the commissioner under discussion is an adult, if what you say is true and it's so easy to conceal from adults, then how do you suppose the commissioner would be able to know about it anyway in the first place? :rolleyes:
     
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  6. Zazie

    Zazie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 2, 2018
    Maine, USA
    Maybe he read an article about it online.
     
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  7. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Removing Cigarettes in the US Market is Never going to Happen. Too Much Tax Monies involved.

    All I was saying is that you can Hang as many No-Smoking Posters in Bathrooms as you want. Or run TV Ads with people who have Holes in their Throat. Or put pictures of Tumor Infested Lungs on the side of Cigarette packs. Or put cigarettes "behind the curtain" like they were Porn on VHS.

    You can do Whatever a person can Dream Up. But you can Only Beat Down Teen/Kid Smoking Rates to a certain Non-Zero percentage.

    And I think we were Pretty Much there when e-Cigarettes hit the scene.
     
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  8. dripster

    dripster Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    It's the correct answer to your question of "Can the FDA do Anything to Stop, or at least, Severely Reduce Teen/Kid Never-Smokers (short of an Absolute Ban) who now are Daily Vapers?"

    So obviously they can't, as they're just addicted to constant lying in exchange for big money.
     
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  9. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    As someone who has worked with high risk teens a fair bit (including my own) I would have to say that a fairly high rate of experimentation and a somewhat lower rate of lifetime addiction to nicotine TOTALLY justifies the harm reduction for older, former smokers..

    I will also say, as a libertarian, I have to ask the question-- does this apply to teens, too? We accept that adults make high risk decisions for themselves all the time, and that adverse effects can happen, even within some of our TRADES, Do we nanny Alaskan fishermen when they ACCEPT the high death rate in that particular profession for the commensurate increase in pay?

    Hell, I am being paid highly for what is a "high risk" job-- I am routinely exposed to germs and possible infection by working in a healthcare field where for some, it might be their fist exposure to a medical appointment of any sort? Did I get to "choose" working in places where statistically my probability of being exposed to crime, injury and even death was raised?

    The government does NOT make those decisions for me. I made choices (knowingly) to enter homes where there were multiple guns and some high risk people. I enjoyed those jobs and I assumed the risk.

    Having a risk taking personality is actually USEFUL to society: we need our military, our healthcare corps, our addiction corps etc. These are all higher risk occupations. A surprising number of heath care workers do stuff like rock climb, smoke, etc. When they tried to screen the variables it was "risk taking behavior." I have vertigo and I rock climb!

    Furthermore, do we ACCEPT that some people will die sooner than others in our society? You sure bet we DO. We accept it each and every time each and every person makes a choice.

    I don't care who vapes, l don't care WHOSE teens vape, and I would accept a fairly ungodly high number for those teen experimenters. Because, while I understand teens tend to be inherently more experimental and risk taking in general, I also know there are those teens, even MORE risk taking and that in a while (if everyone would shut up about it) "trying" a vape would become less normative, and "getting hooked on vaping" would come for that subset of teens whose brains happen to find nicotine not only pleasurable but useful.

    I see no harm in this, and I see a lot more harm in tobacco. I also do not know what the true rate of vaping in teens is. It really,.... it doesn't matter to me.

    If everyone would shut up about it, ask parents to do their job, and by golly, if the FDA wants to do anything, encourage states and locales who want to do it give consequences to the teen.

    It's like that for every OTHER verboten thing, so just add vaping to the pile, SHUT UP about it and there you have it: teen vaping epidemic over, because if it swells to some unimaginable number, well, there can be consequences.

    I also believe in parents rights to decide whether or not THEIR teen vaper is harmful or not to society, and to limit vaping how and where they see fit. Or, walk them and their teen down to Juvenile detention and turn them in.

    This whole mess-- I don't CARE. It is SO much less harmful than the OTHER drugs and behaviors I have seen teens engage in that if a teen ever walked into my office with a "vaping problem" I would almost laugh in delight. Because it's not every other drug under the sun, self injury, a suicide attempt, hooking, rape, the list goes on.

    I'm serious. I can't take teen vaping seriously and I can't believe that anyone would swallow that teen vaping is an epidemic.

    And of WHAT? An epidemic of WHAT? An epidemic of nicotine? OMG, how lovely and heathy.

    Risk takers CHOOSE to be risk takers. I am one of them, and as a risk taker I find the idea of government overregulation to be INSULTING to me and my fellow risk takers.

    We know we may die younger, we accept that risk, and even the risk of being UNCOMFORTABLE at times, during drug detox, during a LOT of things. We assume that risk with our actions and teens should have no more or less "protections" other than making it legal for adults, and not legal for kids, and then the societies in America can each decide what to do about it.

    But when you compare vaping to a teen who is sitting cutting herself because she ran out of her drug of choice after having unprotected sex with ten men to get it, and she calls me to pick her up from the motel, crying? And she is just, and good, and smart, and sweet, but she had a rough childhood and little help in making life choices? Vaping sort of becomes not a big freaking deal. Not even slightly,

    So no, I am not concerned about ANY number the government cares to invent.. Intervention in vaping is not what teens, families, and vaping needs just let the places who want to make it illegal and give consequences do so, and carry the F ON.

    Anna
     
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  10. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Ok...
     
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  11. dripster

    dripster Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    How about an epidemic of doing precisely that which adults tell them not to do, i.e. the exact same epidemic that these exact same adults were also experiencing themselves when they were kids?
     
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  12. dripster

    dripster Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    Maybe if the FDA threatens to mass murder everyone who doesn't vape in high school, the kids will stop vaping because vaping is pure boredom.
     
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  13. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Right. It's an epidemic of risk taking behavior and anti-social behavior.

    I find teens who don't engage in that to be curious people but we all need our accountants, our secretaries, our non risk-takers.

    I will admit that I have met certain people who are literally so boring to me, I almost want to whisper in their ear, "Break some laws do drugs, it will improve your life, I swear!"

    I don't because a) they'd be like my mom, who tried the evil leaf ONCE and proclaims, "You know, I just decided it was perfectly nice, but I like my brain just the way it is."

    I tend to hear, "I was secretly terrified because I'm a control freak," but I'm her kid and we also desperately need our control freaks among us, even when we find them annoying. SOMEONE has to run the meeting. And OH GOD the PTA.

    Also, I told my brother that the evil leaf was perfect for him (as his older sister) because he really liked food, music, and lounging around. And then he tried it with some chick, had intimate--things-- with her, and then told his GF and she broke up with him.

    LOLZ, he has long since absolved me of that sin, he is also a risk taker, and the evil leaf has been something of a mental in and out addiction for him ever since. I'm sure he would have tried it without me, but man, I really regretted setting THAT wheel in motion.

    But YEA I am still tempted sometimes.

    Etc.

    Anna
     
  14. Zazie

    Zazie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 2, 2018
    Maine, USA
    Hey, I took masses of risks as a teenager (and beyond) and really liked my two accounting classes.
     
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  15. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    Not really. Thinking "Oh.... blueberry donuts", as you sniff your kids dirty sweatshirt might provide ones first clue... lol
     
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  16. Zazie

    Zazie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 2, 2018
    Maine, USA
    The kid could claim proximity to cheap cologne. No such excuse for cig smoke.
     
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  17. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Um... if the kid could claim proximity to cheap cologne couldn't the kid claim proximity to a smoker?

    You aren't very good at this deviant teen thing. No offense.

    Neither was I. My parents figured out I had started smoking like 2 hours after I returned from my trip to England. They were rather displeased, but I pulled the "I am 18 now" card.

    But things were tense. I should have told my mom that when my dad was "quitting" he used to take me to work and he would PLUCK the longest butt from the ashtray by the elevator and say, "Don't you ever do this and don't tell your mom." I was like five.

    LOL it would have been a welcome distraction to throw into the mix, and I could have told my dad "I followed your instructions I NEVER smoked a stranger's cigarette butt in the ashtray."

    But these things... heat of the moment... and etc.

    Anna
     
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  18. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Thing is, vaping nicotine isn't very risky, nor is it terribly anti-social. As a parent, there are lots of things a kid could get into that would worry me far more.
     
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  19. Nermal

    Nermal Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 8, 2013
    Farmington, NM USA
    I like the way your mind works.
     
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  20. Zazie

    Zazie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 2, 2018
    Maine, USA
    I could be wrong, but I don't think vapor penetrates and lingers in clothing as much as cigarette smoke does. And even if it does, a faint scent of, say, blueberry probably isn't going to rouse suspicion as much as the reek of old smoke.
    How dare you!!!!
    ;)
     
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