FDA Common misconceptions about FDA regulations ( I hope CASAA will address at some point in the next few weeks)

[Racehorse]

An injunction is a court order requiring an individual to do or omit doing a specific action. It is an extraordinary remedy that courts utilize in special cases where preservation of the status quo or taking some specific action is required in order to prevent possible injustice. Injunctive relief is a discretionary power of the court in which the court, upon deciding that the plaintiff's rights are being violated, balances the irreparablility of injuries and inadequacy of damages if an injunction were not granted against the damages that granting an injunction would cause.

There is a balancing test that courts typically employ in determining whether to issue an injunction. The defendant's 5th Amendment due process rights are weighed (heavily) against the possibility of the defendant becoming judgment-proof, and the immediacy of the harm allegedly done to the plaintiff (i.e., how badly does the plaintiff need the injunction). When it is possible, the defendant must always be put on notice of the injunction hearing, and the duration of the injunction is typically as temporary as possible. Additionally, in many jurisdictions, plaintiffs demanding an injunction are required to post a bond.

In fifth amendment cases the injunction is against gov't action.

why not just give the link to the above text instead of writing it out again?
Injunction | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute
(INJUNCTIONS: AN OVERVIEW)

 

[Kent C]

why not just give the link to the above text instead of writing it out again?
Injunction | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute
(INJUNCTIONS: AN OVERVIEW)

My prerogative as the poster. I wanted to post the text that answered the question. There's a lot of references for injunctions and that fit. I figured in DC2 needed a link, he would have asked. I guess I should have figured on you though.

 

[Racehorse]

Yes, and there are good reasons to file for an injunction, even if there's little likelihood of success. Although deep pockets are needed to pony up the fees. For that, the plaintiff(s) might get some interesting info. from discovery, and some good publicity out of it.

For ex., I suspect this one went nowhere in the courts, but was probably useful to BT: Lorillard and R.J. Reynolds File Suit Against FDA to Prevent it from Relying Upon TPSAC Recommendations; Alleges Conflicts of Interest Among Panelists

Speaking of courts..... how much $$ do you think it cost Smoking Everywhere, Inc. and Sottera, Inc., to bring the lawsuit they brought against the FDA?

I never saw this mentioned....if it was i missed it.

 

[Racehorse]

My prerogative as the poster. I wanted to post the text that answered the question. There's a lot of references for injunctions and that fit. I figured in DC2 needed a link, he would have asked.

First of all, Kurt, asking that intellectual property be respected should not generate hostility.

There's a lot of references for injunctions and that fit.

But you did not post it as a reference. You did not refer back to their site.

Placing those paragraphs in quotations (to show you did not write it), providing a link, or providing attribution would simply show respect for the work somebody else did.

The small editiorial group over at Cornell Law School who write those pages do deserve attribution for their work. I'm just asking that one consider providing it if one is going to lift their writing off their page, word for word.

It would be no different than if I worked over at the research dept. at cornell.edu and posted CASAA's white paper on civil disobedience to the site and did not provide attribution.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

Speaking of courts..... how much $$ do you think it cost Smoking Everywhere, Inc. and Sottera, Inc., to bring the lawsuit they brought against the FDA?

I never saw this mentioned....if it was i missed it.

I have no clue. Perhaps one may reasonably speculate that this was a business decision based on some kind of estimated costs and ROI. Why do you ask?

However I think I mentioned that deep pockets are generally required to litigate. We seem to have trouble raising $20-30K for a chemical analysis of 160 e-liquids. (Would that we had the resources of the American tobacco Control Government-Industrial Complex.)

So my larger point is that there may be a difference of opinion when it comes to using scarce resources in order to file a case prosecuted primarily for the purposes of (say) engaging in some kind of discovery-based "fishing expedition" (a term that I'm using ironically, of course), or a publicity-generating mechanism as part of a larger public issues campaign.

Incidently, getting costs is not generally easy, even if one prevails. What I hear is that courts are particularly unwilling to award costs against the government, unless some kind of moral terpitude or other eggregious misconduct is involved on their part.

It would be nice if our cause had some deep-pocketed benefactor. Persnally, I'd be just as happy with the Koch Bro.s as with George Soros. Or practically anyone else. As I'm fond of saying: we need all the help we can get.

 

[wv2win]

..........................................

However I think I mentioned that deep pockets are generally required to litigate. We seem to have trouble raising $20-30K for a chemical analysis of 160 e-liquids. (Would that we had the resources of the American Tobacco Control Government-Industrial Complex.)

............................

If all 20,000 active members of ECF were members of CASAA and each provided just $5.00 a month out of what they spend to vape each month, that would be $100,000 for CASAA monthly.

Considering the consequences of the proposed FDA regulations, it makes one wonder what is behind the extreme apathy of ECF members. It's appears that vaping really is not that important to a significant number of ECF members. I applaud your efforts in keeping the issue front and center.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

Thanks. You, too.

If all 20,000 active members of ECF were members of CASAA and each provided just $5.00 a month out of what they spend to vape each month, that would be $100,000 for CASAA monthly.

Considering the consequences of the proposed FDA regulations, it makes one wonder what is behind the extreme apathy of ECF members. It's appears that vaping really is not that important to a significant number of ECF members. I applaud your efforts in keeping the issue front and center.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

It would be nice if our cause had some deep-pocketed benefactor.

There's always the hope that some savvy rich guy or gal or group who's passionate about vaping and/or has an extreme hatred of smoking, and/or who has money to burn, would start buying up some of the better smaller vape companies (instead of BT) & keep them under one umbrella, and who wouldn't be afraid to front the dough & to fight for the long-term to help protect the investments & the vaping consumers...


Got any names that would fit (& foot) the bill?

 

[DC2]

Got any names that would fit (& foot) the bill?

James Cameron.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

James Cameron.

The brother of this guy..?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...d-we-blame-failure-safe-cig-john-cameron.html

 

[toddkuen]

There's always the hope that some savvy rich guy or gal or group who's passionate about vaping and/or has an extreme hatred of smoking, and/or who has money to burn, ... wouldn't be afraid to front the dough & to fight for the long-term to help protect the investments & the vaping consumers...

I came up with something I wanted to do but I can't talk about it here lest I be "soliciting" which is a no no.

So where else do I go to talk about it to 20,000 vapers?

And no, I don't want to donate to a PAC.

 

[Kent C]

First of all, Kurt, asking that intellectual property be respected should not generate hostility.



But you did not post it as a reference. You did not refer back to their site.

Placing those paragraphs in quotations (to show you did not write it), providing a link, or providing attribution would simply show respect for the work somebody else did.

The small editiorial group over at Cornell Law School who write those pages do deserve attribution for their work. I'm just asking that one consider providing it if one is going to lift their writing off their page, word for word.

It would be no different than if I worked over at the research dept. at cornell.edu and posted CASAA's white paper on civil disobedience to the site and did not provide attribution.

Racehore, You're right, I edited it.

 

[DC2]

The brother of this guy..?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...d-we-blame-failure-safe-cig-john-cameron.html

Oh, hmmmmm... yeah, maybe not.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

While I'm not hoping for anyone to do this out of purely altruistic/ideological motives, I'm hoping that somehow the situation will develop to the point where it's in the economic interest of some person or group of investors.

I wish I could think of some obvious sure-fire way that vapers, acting together, can somehow seed the ground for that result - other than by simply continuing to do what we already do.

There's always the hope that some savvy rich guy or gal or group who's passionate about vaping and/or has an extreme hatred of smoking, and/or who has money to burn, would start buying up some of the better smaller vape companies (instead of BT) & keep them under one umbrella, and who wouldn't be afraid to front the dough & to fight for the long-term to help protect the investments & the vaping consumers...


Got any names that would fit (& foot) the bill?

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

(Yes, I'm comitting the sin of bumping a thread that I started, for what I feel are defensible reasons. First time I've ever done it. And it will hopefully be the last.)

 

[Stosh]

Roger, it's not the bumps that are necessary. Links to the FDA threads need to be referenced in the General e-smoking, e-liquid, DIY, modders forums, generate new faces reading and reacting to the FDA and state & local nimrods....

 

[bigdancehawk]

Excuse a noob for interrupting, but I'm a lawyer. You're a lawyer, right? If not, you missed your calling.

 

[Stosh]

Excuse a noob for interrupting, but I'm a lawyer. You're a lawyer, right? If not, you missed your calling.

Not interrupting whatsoever! We desperately need a lawyer to read through some of the FDA legal documents and figure out what they are actually saying. Any translations are more than welcome!!...

 

[bigdancehawk]

Not interrupting whatsoever! We desperately need a lawyer to read through some of the FDA legal documents and figure out what they are actually saying. Any translations are more than welcome!!...

Jeeze, but I get paid big bucks to read regulatory Sanskrit.

 

[bigdancehawk]

The hurdle you must leap over to convince a federal judge to void federal regulations makes Mt. Everest look like Mt. Oread, home of my beloved Kansas Jayhawks. (I'd post pictures of both for visual interest, but I can't quite manage to get the hang of it yet).