Community Placebo Effect

[Robino1]

Learn what you have. Get it down to a science. Learn all its quirks and how to deal with them. Stick with it until you understand it. Learn how much air you need to draw and how hard to draw in to optimize the vapor. Figure out what makes the gurgle and why.

Example: I use the vision Vivi nova. I've found that if I overfill, it gurgles, or if my head needs changing it doesn't vaporize the liquid fast enough to prevent gurgling. I'm not a tinkerer but I pay attention to what the pattern is when things happen. I never have gotten a dry hit on it probably because I read beforehand that I need to tip and twirl. It doesn't need that much but I tend to play with it like I would a pen anyway. The nova suits me and my vaping style.

After you have it mastered and feel the need to explore other options, go for it. You have your backup in place for when you need it while learning another device. Always have something on hand that you know inside and out while you explore other options.

Some are just not cut out for tinkering, that's ok too. Start simple and work your way up if you are a tinkerer.

Just my two cents.

 

[stumpfreeman]

I get far superior flavor and vapor from RDA's and Kayfuns. I'm not the kind of guy who has to have the newest or shiniest toy either. Buying a Kayfun was a big decision for me as I don't have unlimited funds. From the first drag I took off of the Kayfun to the one I took a second ago, I have had nothing but pure vaping pleasure from this thing. It was worth every penny and I'd imagine it will last me for years by the way the build looks. I've found that there is a fine line on setting drippers up. There are so many variables. If you use thicker wick material, you may need less wraps to achieve your desired ohms. If you wrap too tight, you'll strangle the wick. If you use cotton, it may burn easily. If your coil sits to high, or to low in the device, you may not align with the air hole properly. I could go on and on. Are some products hype driven? Of course but for the most part, if they don't work well, they aren't around too long. JMHO

STUMP

 

[DavidOck]

Good to hear, Stump, that you're happy with your gear. We all should be.

But "superior", "best" and all the other evaluations always need to be seen as one person's experience - taste - preference.

When reading "reviews", I always take them that way, and the old YMMV is gospel to me. What you like may not be what I like, but I'm certainly interested in your experience and opinion. After all, I just may agree

So far, I'm perfectly happy with my MVP, VV3, various Spinners, T3, Evod, carto tanks, etc. I even have some stick and 1100 autos for hands free that serve me well. While I keep reading about (and looking at) the big battery mods, I keep thinking they might be too big to be comfortable - to me. Would I join the ranks of the happy owners of them who leave them at home and go out with a Spinner? So I wait. My choice.

Others have different needs and wants. Getting something just because it's the latest and greatest may - or may not - improve your vape. That's entirely subjective after a point. It certainly will put a hole in your wallet. Worth it? Again, purely personal and subjective.

(And I don't have an I-anything, either. The software I need to run doesn't work there without jumping through hoops, although it can be done. But why jump through hoops - with computers or vaping gear - if you don't need to?)

 

[Myk]

Although I firmly believe there is a lot of unfounded, "OMG! This new thing is so great." when it's not. Did you ever consider that it might be you and you're not doing something right with the IGO-L.
It may end up not being your thing, but it shouldn't be doing what you describe if you have it set up right.

Maybe your coil is the wrong resistance for your taste, maybe you built it wrong, maybe your airhole isn't positioned right, maybe your airhole isn't big enough. It could also be that you're running it dry.

I have my IGO-L clone at 1.6Ω and 6.5w with DIY Tiramisu or Caramel Cappuccino flavors and there's no burnt taste (and both are very burnt flavors). I've had a few mls through it at least and the coil isn't caked at all.
'I don't like throat hit or burnt liquids at all. I have some problems like that with figuring out my dual coil V9 but not with my IGO-L in single coil.

I also think my Protank is the best (although I hate the feel of the tip). No muted flavor (although I use a very strong menthol in it).
People hate the eGo-C, I thought it was great for over a year because I learned how to use one. I realize it won't mesh with how some people will use it but the fact that they insist on using it wrong still falls on their lap.

I don't think people's fondness of RBAs comes from trying to rationalize an expensive purchase.

Maybe for some but you forget the FastTech in the equation. My IGO-L clone was less than $10.

 

[paladinx]

You guys all make great points, and the bottom line surely is whatever works for the person. Whether its a volt, or a huge mod. Sometimes I get cocky with my opinions.. not based on my ecig expertise but on my senses. I used to work in a field that required a good sense of taste and smell. I think my taste is very sharp.. and I believe in my abilities to detect taste differences.. taste is subjective.. but sometimes I feel cocky and think people usually have leather tongues LOL

as far as coils go... If there is so many variables and things to talk about , than all the reviewers out there on youtube do a real crappy job. They all do the same kind of thing roughly.. I have probably seen a dozen videos on building coils on atties like the IGO. I can't see how im doing anything differently. Of course I dont know the exact tightness of the coil around the wick.. but I follow it as best I can. I try to make it a little more on the tight side than lose. I think when the silica burns and gets gross it gives off a certain foul taste and sharpness to the hit. I think vapers become desensitized or something. You can give the smallest ecig to a cigarette smokers and they will cough and choke... yet we got guys inhaling 30 watt power coils.. I don't know anymore.. Everyone says cartos suck.. yet to me they seem the best within reason. I am not looking to inhale a fog machine..

 

[Thrasher]

I think when the silica burns and gets gross it gives off a certain foul taste and sharpness to the hit.

and this is the main problem, your not supped to let this happen with a dripper. if its dry and burning you went too far without refilling.

I am not looking to inhale a fog machine

as many of as arent as well. the latest cloud chasing fad is new and many here dont understand it. but it doesnt negate the experience of a well set up dripper, and the overwhelming purity you get from the flavor.
whether you actually like dripping or not almost noone will dispute the vaping experience itself as being top notch in regards to a quality vapor.

many times people get into rba's and go oh thats what my juice really tastes like, i dont like that anymore lol

 

[Robin Macri]

I love my 510 attys dripping on a twist battery. No hassle, great taste.

 

[BigLebowski]

I personally find carto tanks and clearomizers pale greatly in comparison to RDA's, I get 3x the vapor and TH and can build them for 15 cents for a month and change flavors on the fly versus a $1 cartomizer every week for a single flavor.

 

[UncleChuck]

Maybe for some but you forget the FastTech in the equation. My IGO-L clone was less than $10.

I think you misunderstood.

I said people are NOT just trying to justify expensive purchases, because many of the purchases aren't expensive at all. And I actually used the IgoL as an example of an inexpensive but popular dripper

 

[BigBaby]

You are wrong on this one. I was a long time carto/carto tank user. I was great at setting them up and I liked the functionality and vape that I got from them. Now I don't use anything other than rebuildable drippers and almost exclusively use IGO-Ls. If you can not achieve a far superior vape, it is in your builds via your technique and skill level. Nothing about a RDA should be by nature "burny" or un-smooth.

I am not at all saying that everybody should use rebuildables by any means. However, It is irritating and obnoxious to every other day or so to hear RDA hate from someone who probably just can't buil;d a coil that they find satisfying. It can be an art form and takes a lot of practice to get good at, yet people try 3 builds that suck and then make a thread to the effect of "this sucks, (and I won't admit that it is my fault) Im going back to cheap clearomizers"

 

[BigBaby]

I don't have any placebo effect. I like vaping on coils that I build and custom taylor to my liking. I get huge vapor production, the smoothest vapes of my life, and at a cost of about a $0.10 a coil compared to a $1.25 carto or $1-3 head to put in an inferior preforming device. This is one of my favorite builds.

 

[Myk]

You guys all make great points, and the bottom line surely is whatever works for the person. Whether its a volt, or a huge mod. Sometimes I get cocky with my opinions.. not based on my ecig expertise but on my senses. I used to work in a field that required a good sense of taste and smell. I think my taste is very sharp.. and I believe in my abilities to detect taste differences.. taste is subjective.. but sometimes I feel cocky and think people usually have leather tongues LOL

as far as coils go... If there is so many variables and things to talk about , than all the reviewers out there on youtube do a real crappy job. They all do the same kind of thing roughly.. I have probably seen a dozen videos on building coils on atties like the IGO. I can't see how im doing anything differently. Of course I dont know the exact tightness of the coil around the wick.. but I follow it as best I can. I try to make it a little more on the tight side than lose. I think when the silica burns and gets gross it gives off a certain foul taste and sharpness to the hit. I think vapers become desensitized or something. You can give the smallest ecig to a cigarette smokers and they will cough and choke... yet we got guys inhaling 30 watt power coils.. I don't know anymore.. Everyone says cartos suck.. yet to me they seem the best within reason. I am not looking to inhale a fog machine..

There's A LOT of variables in coils and it goes way beyond ohms and watts. I saw it best in a thread describing sub-ohms (or maybe micro coils) and why they work at seemingly high watts.
I think more important than ohms and watts is heating surface and mass. You could have a one wrap coil at 2Ω or a twenty wrap coil that is 2Ω and they're not going to be the same.

Wrapping tight would definitely give a burnt taste because it won't allow feeding. Wrapping too loose can too because it allows hot spots that won't feed the wire to keep it from heating too much.

I think my love of ribbon cable is because it makes sense to me, not because it actually works better. The only objective better I can see is they seem very durable. After I gave up trying to fit enough ribbon in my Vivi Nova I can't say it produces better flavor or more vapor. Trying to use up my factory heads for my Protank so I can wrap them in ribbon, I can't say I can tell much difference until it comes time to clean.

I agree about desensitization. I also think some people want some burn because they are chasing a tobacco burn. "That's what I've been missing" is something burning.

What I don't understand about cloud chasing is I never had a problem getting a lot of vapor.

I absolutely hate cartos. I get burn from them. I think I vape faster than they feed. And once you get burn they remain burnt. This is one of those things that comes down to how it's used. With a tank/wick I can control the feed somewhat by taking a priming pull before firing and some people don't want to do that. For some reason whatever it takes to make cartos work is something I'm not willing to do.

 

[BigLebowski]

There's A LOT of variables in coils and it goes way beyond ohms and watts. I saw it best in a thread describing sub-ohms (or maybe micro coils) and why they work at seemingly high watts.
I think more important than ohms and watts is heating surface and mass. You could have a one wrap coil at 2Ω or a twenty wrap coil that is 2Ω and they're not going to be the same.

Wrapping tight would definitely give a burnt taste because it won't allow feeding. Wrapping too loose can too because it allows hot spots that won't feed the wire to keep it from heating too much.

I think my love of ribbon cable is because it makes sense to me, not because it actually works better. The only objective better I can see is they seem very durable. After I gave up trying to fit enough ribbon in my Vivi Nova I can't say it produces better flavor or more vapor. Trying to use up my factory heads for my Protank so I can wrap them in ribbon, I can't say I can tell much difference until it comes time to clean.

I agree about desensitization. I also think some people want some burn because they are chasing a tobacco burn. "That's what I've been missing" is something burning.

What I don't understand about cloud chasing is I never had a problem getting a lot of vapor.

I absolutely hate cartos. I get burn from them. I think I vape faster than they feed. And once you get burn they remain burnt. This is one of those things that comes down to how it's used. With a tank/wick I can control the feed somewhat by taking a priming pull before firing and some people don't want to do that. For some reason whatever it takes to make cartos work is something I'm not willing to do.

Haven't tried ribbon because it looks like a PITA, but I agree with the cartos, once they are done they typically cant be salvaged--but the convenience is undeniable. I wouldn't have made it this long vaping if I didn't start with carto tanks because cigarettes are hassle free--pack, light, inhale.
carto tank--prime, submerge, inhale.

 

[Myk]

I think you misunderstood.

I said people are NOT just trying to justify expensive purchases, because many of the purchases aren't expensive at all. And I actually used the IgoL as an example of an inexpensive but popular dripper

I understood, just completely the opposite of what you said LOL

Haven't tried ribbon because it looks like a PITA, but I agree with the cartos, once they are done they typically cant be salvaged--but the convenience is undeniable. I wouldn't have made it this long vaping if I didn't start with carto tanks because cigarettes are hassle free--pack, light, inhale.
carto tank--prime, submerge, inhale.

I'm a jeweler so I've got 30+ years experience bending springy wire into small coils. I don't find it a PITA, but that could be the reason.

I've recommended cartos to non-tinkerers for that very reason. I know they're not going to tweak something to get it to work. Fill, use, throw away fits them. Although now I'm leaning more towards Protanks for them. At least for me it's been very trouble free. Even if there's no rebuilding it seems better than eGo-C and Cartos for price (I can burn through cartos like nobody's business, I should try some of my non-caking DIY in one to see how it does).

 

[r77r7r]

You guys all make great points, and the bottom line surely is whatever works for the person. Whether its a volt, or a huge mod. Sometimes I get cocky with my opinions.. not based on my ecig expertise but on my senses. I used to work in a field that required a good sense of taste and smell. I think my taste is very sharp.. and I believe in my abilities to detect taste differences.. taste is subjective.. but sometimes I feel cocky and think people usually have leather tongues LOL

as far as coils go... If there is so many variables and things to talk about , than all the reviewers out there on youtube do a real crappy job. They all do the same kind of thing roughly.. I have probably seen a dozen videos on building coils on atties like the IGO. I can't see how im doing anything differently. Of course I dont know the exact tightness of the coil around the wick.. but I follow it as best I can. I try to make it a little more on the tight side than lose. I think when the silica burns and gets gross it gives off a certain foul taste and sharpness to the hit. I think vapers become desensitized or something. You can give the smallest ecig to a cigarette smokers and they will cough and choke... yet we got guys inhaling 30 watt power coils.. I don't know anymore.. Everyone says cartos suck.. yet to me they seem the best within reason. I am not looking to inhale a fog machine..

If you're just now popping in after a hiatus, the front pages of ECF may look like that. But for every "I hate cartos" post, there are probably thousands of us quietly vaping them in the background. There's nothing to post about when something just works so reliably.

There are businesses Just for carto-tanks now, and growing. I'm sure Boge gets plenty orders for their 200 carto deal.

Same with eGo's...

Most of last year and the year before, it was a crying shame as junky clearos flooded the market and newcomers were Very frustrated. Lately it's been alot better with them ( so I've read ) and it's great that everyone has many many choices with batteries and toppers.

 

[_more_]

I like cartos and attys both give me vapor and flavor to my satisfaction.This didn't happen completely until I got my first Reo bottom feeder mod. Now i could never go back, but hey that's me and your preference/taste may be completely different. I found mine and you will find yours

Vape on

 

[BigLebowski]

If you're just now popping in after a hiatus, the front pages of ECF may look like that. But for every "I hate cartos" post, there are probably thousands of us quietly vaping them in the background. There's nothing to post about when something just works so reliably.

There are businesses Just for carto-tanks now, and growing. I'm sure Boge gets plenty orders for their 200 carto deal.

Same with eGo's...

Most of last year and the year before, it was a crying shame as junky clearos flooded the market and newcomers were Very frustrated. Lately it's been alot better with them ( so I've read ) and it's great that everyone has many many choices with batteries and toppers.

My first "kit" came from a B&M that is tailored specifically to carto tanks. I went in their recently to pick up some wick/wire while I was waiting for my shipment and they were really confused.

 

[Fizzpop]

Delivery devices make a lot of difference in how a juice tastes. I find I prefer different juices in different devices. My prefered device is a Genesis style RBA; I choose my juices accordingly. I will say that a good dripper will give one a very pure vaping experience and there is no better device for sampling a variety of juices over a short time period. That being said, I tend to like to spend some time with a juice and vape a tank or two before I pass judgement. A good RBD is good for thinning the herd.

 

[paladinx]

Well maybe it is me. I don' t know. Like I said I have read a lot and saw many videos and I am trying to do exactly what they are doing. I don't see all these master techniques or anything. I don't know. I built about five or six coils. At best they work no better or worse than a carto, but after about a day the taste gets funky. Its either I am still doing something wrong, or not doing the secret that no one talks about in videos... Or I just have different taste buds than other people.

the best feed back I can get are those who do like it and explain what they do.. For example the picture on here It looks like your using 3 wicks and a thick wire. I guess I should try something different like cotton wicks and see if that helps.

 

[IMEDICx90]

Well you have to consider are you using an RDA or an RBA? The dripping atty my not be your best bet. I prefer the rba over a dripping one bc I like the flavor better. Don't get me wrong in saying that the RDA is bad... Just not as good as a genesis style. and wicking material can make the flavor change as well.

Also on a side note.... I can't say that the flavor is 100% better then a standard clearo but I like the fact that I can build the coil and the wick and add the juice I made and basically have a completely home made setup. It's more gratifying then it is a flavor thing with me. And cheaper overall once the start up is out of the way.