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Complaining on the wait to clear up clutter on the Update Thread

Discussion in 'Juice Box Fans' started by Lightgeoduck, Feb 18, 2010.

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  1. Lightgeoduck

    Lightgeoduck Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 7, 2009
    jp(APO)Camp Z us

    I totally understand... and I am in the same boat.... and its not about being thinskined or even trying to stop the complaining

    I started this not expecting it to be required, or saying that I don't want to read the conversation... just wanted to orgainize it a bit.. THATS ALL

    OF COURSE The comments about don't complain and any other response to the complaining posts are just as clutteriing.....

    Thanks for explaining the open forum concept... I know but I am just trying to seperate the two topics.... Updates and why the updates bother me posts

    Isn't that understandable? I mean people will still read it here no doupt its not like they just booked marked that ONE thread......people that have concerns and don't have their juice box will come to this thread as well
  2. Kuya Dave

    Kuya Dave Moved On

    Jan 5, 2010
    Tru Nor Cal
    Gives up on this topic Why? Cause of too much negativity
  3. Elendil

    Elendil Assclown Exterminator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Mar 28, 2009
    IL USA
    It is the complaint thread. What did you expect? Puppies and sunshine?

  4. jebey29

    jebey29 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2009

    :confused: What really gets me the most is that the reason we are getting the few updates that we occasionally get is because of us "whining" complainers. The updates from Snarky, Truelove, and Juicy were in direct response to multiple complaints/complainers.

    Without the complaints all you would be hearing is the sound of crickets. You previously stated you were waiting quietly and patiently. What made you stop?
  5. jebey29

    jebey29 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2009
    And this thread was a really bad idea. I would imagine the complaint posts will soon surpass the number of update/tips/how do i get one posts. What will a prospective customer think then?
  6. Lightgeoduck

    Lightgeoduck Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 7, 2009
    jp(APO)Camp Z us

    Well my guess would be that: since they closed orders until all things are caught up... that once they open up orders again the prospective customer will be seeing posts from Juice Box owners in this Fan Group.

    Its only a guess... who knows what the future may bring, but the fact is (MY GUESS AGAIN) that people who are contiplating buying the juice box (Which by the way can't now) are reading updates AND complaints and more customer turned owners will eventually start posting here.

    But I wouldn't doubt that this is a double edged sword anyway......
  7. Lightgeoduck

    Lightgeoduck Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 7, 2009
    jp(APO)Camp Z us
    I quoted you from the other thread just to say this was a much better way of putting it and might have started something interesting if posted WAY earlier :p
  8. highping

    highping Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 29, 2009
    Columbus, OH
    Duck, funny, I was just in the process of moving that post over here. :p,

    <Moved from other thread>...

    Again, not an update post, but it pertains to my previous post in this thread (and I'm just a rebel like that sometimes )

    I just want to clarify...when I talk about the Saturday thread, it has nothing to do with the mod, the construction of the mod, the maker of the mod, function, materials involved, time it takes to build, or any thing else like that.
    I'm talking about the flow of the thread, the comradary of the people, the anticipation of the pr0n being posted (almost every night), the whining of people that are waiting for theirs, and the taunting "puff, puff" of the ppl that already have one; the extreme off-topic posts that go on for pages about everything but a chuck, and yet, through all of that, everyone just getting along like they are all friends. (no negative vibes)

    Every day (or two at most) somebody was posting that they got theirs or saw the pic posted, or just ordered and entered 'the waiting room'. That's what I'm talkin' 'bout . Those are the things that make the waiting much more bearable (even enjoyable), and those are the kinds of things that are lacking here. I think Carlos has made a big mistake by 1) not keeping at least a minimal flow of these going out the door. 2) not being involved with this thread (ok maybe not this thread, but one of 'em).
    All it would take is for Carlos to make a post of, "here's a pic of the one (two, three) that I made today, will be shipping these out tomorrow". If that happened, there would be zero complaining here (there would still be whining, but there's a big difference).
    I have been following this group for two months now (since a few days before I ordered), and I think (maybe) a half dozen people have posted about receiving a JB.

    To all those concerned with the length of this thread, I promise this will be my last "off-topic" post in this thread. I will post future questions, observations, and rants in one of the other threads. Like I said before, I just posted in here because it pertained to my previous post in this thread. (and to rage against the machine a little )
  9. Fairlane64

    Fairlane64 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 6, 2009
    Central US
    I've been waiting since late December, so I know I've still got a while to go before I ever see mine, and I'm not really complaining, just putting out a general observation.

    I've been an Engineer and Project Manager for almost 25 years, and for a few years had a pretty nice eBay business until other obligations (and supply issues / eBay rules outside my control) made me decide to pull the plug on it after selling off my remaining inventory.

    I've seen this happen many times in the past, where somebody has a good idea, decides to pursue it, and starts to become a victim of their own success. Sometimes the world beating a path to your door smashes the door down and runs you over.

    In all the projects I've managed or business endeavors I've pursued (especially when dealing with the general public), communication is vital, especially when it's a product where the consumer has a certain expectation, and a certain wait before receiving the product. Even the nicest person can become rabid if left in the dark long enough.

    For those of you who are friends with Carlos, or can talk to him, please give him some advice from a few here who have managed businesses or large projects. Help him to keep from being a victim of his own success.

    1. Help him to set up as a supplier (or manufacturer, take your pick) on ECF or any other popular forum where updates are to be posted. It's key that people know EXACTLY where to go to get information or updates, not just post some stuff here or there (and have the updates get lost in the noise) or send out occasional updates. You can email updates out to a million people, or you can work more efficiently and put out updates in one spot that the business controls and let a million people read it.

    2. Help him to understand he's not just a modder now, he's also a business owner, and along with that comes certain responsibilities. Yes it's cool that many have tried to help by posting updates, conversations, video's, etc, and those are noble efforts, but he needs to understand it's probably already grown beyond that. He now has customers, demands, supply issues, shipment deadlines, etc, etc. Certain tasks (like communication with customers) is not just a bother that can done on a piece meal basis, it's now called customer service and should be managed like any other part of a business. Either himself or a single appointed representative needs to take over posting updates as a supplier or in a customer service controlled thread in one spot (preferably as a supplier) on these forums (or a website, which offers maximum control).

    3. It's great to see video's of him working hard, showing he's no slacker, has great moral character / work ethic (which I have no doubt he does), but this doesn't necessarily show to the buying public that he's got everything under control. To show the business is under control means to have a set plan and to execute that plan. In any business there's delays, shortages, etc, but those need to be relayed to the customer (again customer service) in a timely manner, or on a schedule that customers can rely on for their information. In other words, as a supplier, post an update every Monday, or two times a week on set days, so it can be expected. Even if it's not always in control, at least the flow of information is steady and reliable.

    I could go on, but that's enough for now. To those of you that know him, or can talk to him, or are under his employ, help him out to understand that it's just as important for him to provide customer service in the way of timely and consistent updates as it is to spend all of his time slaving away at making the boxes themselves, since a long wait is now just part of his business model due to tight production controls. A great customer experience and consistent flow of information to those customers is a very important part of running a successful business or managing a large project. He's probably at a point now where he really needs to set aside some time every day to keep his appointed representatives updated on where things are at and what problems / successes are coming up. Think of them as business meetings or just business metrics updates.
    Just producing a great product isn't enough if you want to be really successful, there's got to be a plan, execution, and a level of professionalism if he wants to take it to the next level or just have happy customers.

    Those of you who are personal friends of his, don't let him be a victim of his own success, help him organize this important part of his exciting new business venture he has launched. A little planning, execution, and consistent information flow can go a LONG ways to success, and proves that he has the business under control.

    That's my $.02, learned from many years of battling it myself, and I really hope this becomes a great success for him that DOESN'T end up killing him in the process. ;)

    Now, where's my juicebox?!?! :D
  10. Greyz

    Greyz Senior Member

    Jan 4, 2010
    Athens Ga
    Very well said Fairlane. I do hope that Carlos gets relayed your post. I would very much like to see him succeed. From what I can tell he seems like a person with alot of integrity, and obviously a very skilled inventor. That's what this country is all about. The comment I appreciate the most is, "Even the nicest person can become rabid if left in the dark long enough" because I know that whats happening to me and I'm sure there are plenty of other patiently waiting nice people who are starting to feel that they could raise thier hand to that description.
  11. Ralph T

    Ralph T Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 3, 2009
    Albuquerque, NM
    +1 on that Highping!

    I wouldn't trade a day of the wait. It was all good clean fun. A rite of passage. And you know what? If I ordered another today I would be going thru it all over again... albeit KNOWING that it was coming soon... (It still takes 2-3 weeks). That thread makes the waiting fun. There was a feedback loop... Contact with the mod god...
  12. jetmech

    jetmech Full Member

    Dec 18, 2009
    I would complain, but I don't want to hear any complaining when I post in the complaining thread.
  13. Snarkyone

    Snarkyone Super Member ECF Veteran

    The complaining doesn't accelerate anything, if the parts are not there they simply are not there. Fairlane posted one of the most intelligent comments on all of these pages when he stated that Carlos is a victim of his own success, that is right on the money.

    Carlos won't just send out crap when he can send out a better unit and you will ultimately be better off with it. Anticipation is a ....., I get that this is worse than waiting on Santa Claus when your 7 years old. As for the paperwork part of the whole ECF drama I could care less, he is a manufacturer not a supplier, the supplier is simple enough distinction to me. Carlos manufactures the JuiceBox and is the retail supplier.
  14. harpo

    harpo Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 19, 2009
    Yuba City, California
  15. clyde2801

    clyde2801 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    What we need now is a thread to complain about people complaining on the complaint thread, a cross complain thread, if you will.

    Hopefully, if all he's waiting on is the switches, maybe he can get a bunch of other boxes ready in the meanwhile so he can ship a bunch of boxes all at once.

    Or maybe not. I'd like to think that I'm an optimist, but at times I suspect I'm just stupid.

    It seems that there was a lot of self-feeding hype (not necessarily the fault of carlos) that's causing a lot of the fuss and feelings about this.
  16. Fairlane64

    Fairlane64 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 6, 2009
    Central US
    Thanks Greyz, and like you, I just want to see him be successful, and like you, I am a nice guy who suffers from occasional rabid moments! ;)

    I've seen lots of people with great ideas get smashed because they didn't have the needed business acumen to go along with their ideas / talent. I just hope somebody helps him so he doesn't suffer that same fate, or he has hidden business acumen that just hasn't shown up yet.

    Either way, I have no doubt I'll receive a box eventually, I just know with a bit of business savvy, he could REALLY launch this thing. Communication (both to the outside world and to the production / support team) and an eye for what makes customers happy can really make a big difference. You gotta make time for that and the manufacturing process... that's why a lot of successful business owners work plenty of 10 - 16 hour days the first year or two when launching a new business.
  17. lordmage

    lordmage Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 15, 2008
    Dundalk,Maryland, USA
    Patience is a virtue best exercised when pissed.
  18. highping

    highping Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 29, 2009
    Columbus, OH
    Is that Confucius lormage? :lol:
  19. SNM

    SNM Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 1, 2009
    I just dont get how he could be wateing on switches??? Are they that hard to get?? I think not. Are they expencive No I mean if I new that I placed 150 orders in the first few weeks I would have bought 500 switches at once. How many boxes are already out there in customers hands? I have personaly only heard of a few, almost three months into this thing. What did they get 20-30 switches at first? I just dont get it. Lets say there is 300 customers on a wate list thats $26,700.00 dollars collected at 89.00 dollars a piece give or take. Buy some darn switches.
  20. jebey29

    jebey29 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2009
    Makes perfect sense to most! Actually common sense but that seems to be lacking these days.

    I will give you a perfect example of customer service and pride in the work you do. My father (Bless him) builds cellular networks these days but in his younger years he was a brick mason and Electrical contractor. Somehow he managed to ruin a floor of a rather wealthy customer. Of course he was going to replace the floor. Upon calling the carpet and tile dealer it was discovered that the tile was a discontinued item and could no longer be purchased. My fathers customer was extremely upset and wanted his exact floor replaced. What did my father do? He got on the phone and started calling every single carpet and tile dealer in America. He begged and he pleaded and was able to get these dealers to sell him their instore sample of the tile they had. That is 1 tile at a time ....he had to repeat this process 750 times.....But he got those tiles and he replaced that floor. Time needed to get this done? 2 Weeks !!!!

    That is how i was taught to do business !!
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