Considering we don't know the long term effects, we should ban this.

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ScottP

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In the absence of long term studies proving that an overreaching, nanny state government is absolutely safe, we have no idea what the long term consequences could be. So we have little choice but to make sure this is banned immediately and permanently. Please contact your representatives and demand immediate action.
 

coalyard

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Oh but we do have studies, and they are not favorable to overreaching nanny state governments. They come in many forms, such as autocracies, democracies, theocracies, etc. The study of the overreach effect on constitutional republics is still ongoing however, due to the rarity of such forms of government making for a small sample size. Initial data suggests that governmental overreach in a constitutional republic has much the same effects as it does in other forms, although it is observed to be a longer and more complicated process depending on the will of the people to allow it to happen.

Autocracies, democracies, and theocracies have been proven to be hazardous to the health and well being of their respective citizens from data collected from the former Soviet Union, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, China, Afghanistan, Iran and many others. Long term effects on citizens include hanging, execution, genital mutilation, torture, imprisonment, starvation, lack of opportunity and a socio-economic class system, as well as severe limitations on inalienable rights such as free speech and association, illegal search and seizure, self defense, and equality under the law.

The study committee, backed with historical evidence, have come to the conclusion that all forms of government are like fire; they are useful and necessary, but very dangerous to life and property if they are allowed to get out of control.
 

Dumas Mesuri

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Had to read the OP twice to make sure I was reading it right.

The FDA and most govt agencies, not just in the US, but, around the world, would be good things if they did what they were supposedly set up to do. Obviously, that is not even close to reality. In reality govt has always and always will abuse all available technology to control as much as possible.

Just my opinion, but, it's my opinion that this is fact :laugh:
 

v1k1ng1001

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The problem isn't with the government per se but with lobbying. The irony is that right-wingers vote for Republicans-- rhetorically committed to limiting the scope and power of government over people's lives--who then pack the supreme court (Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas, etc) so that you get a decision like Citizen's United which absurdly increases the influence that corporations--even extranational corporations--have over our government. What is motivating the FDA's attempts to regulate ecigs is not left-wing anti-tobacco groups so much as big pharma and big tobacco who will spend whatever it takes (which is sadly not much) to bend the FDA to its will and against the interests of citizens like us.
 

AgentAnia

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In the absence of long term studies proving that an overreaching, nanny state government is absolutely safe, we have no idea what the long term consequences could be. So we have little choice but to make sure this is banned immediately and permanently. Please contact your representatives and demand immediate action.

As a subset of this (with which I totally agree!) see my signature...
 

Tinkiegrrl

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Had to read the OP twice to make sure I was reading it right.

The FDA and most govt agencies, not just in the US, but, around the world, would be good things if they did what they were supposedly set up to do. Obviously, that is not even close to reality. In reality govt has always and always will abuse all available technology to control as much as possible.

Just my opinion, but, it's my opinion that this is fact :laugh:

Money. Its the money. Big tobacco has it and they're willing to pay it to eliminate any and all competition. Government representatives win elections by raising money, and corporations are now "people" who can donate millions and billions in one donation. We no longer have a government by the people, for the people,... we have corporations ruling.
 

redddog

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If you look at the FDA regs, you'll get all you need to know about where we were headed and why.

These regs do 2 things: they acknowledge that they can't outright ban this and 2, they ensure that the only industry participants that can survive are the big tobacco manufacturers with interests in ecigs.

Small vendors will have zero chance of competing with massive multi-national companies with the resources to wade through the red-tape. The industry will be pared down to a few large vendors and the BT mega-corps.

It's as if the FDA made these regs in conjunction with the legal departments of BT and determined what they would need to erase the competition and that's what they wrote as new regulation.

It's blatant.
 
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kgevans

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Money. Its the money. Big Tobacco has it and they're willing to pay it to eliminate any and all competition. Government representatives win elections by raising money, and corporations are now "people" who can donate millions and billions in one donation. We no longer have a government by the people, for the people,... we have corporations ruling.

Don't forget all anti-smoking non-profits that feed off tobacco revenue. They all have a stake in keeping the smoke demon alive. In my state tobacco taxes fund health-care and schools "for the children."
 

v1k1ng1001

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I'm a liberal-progressive type. I support environmental regulation because I can point to 3 devastating toxic EPA superfund sites within 30 miles of where I live. I can introduce you to an individual literally covered in tumors and families that have been devastated by leukemia and benzene poisoning.

On the other hand, I'm a pragmatist as well. Vaping is a win/win because, even if long-term studies show that it is somehow dangerous to human health, the fact of the matter is that it will never be remotely close to as dangerous as smoking is. In turn, it will reduce smoking (and second-hand smoke by extension). This provides every community, every economy with a huge economic benefit by eliminating billions of dollars of extraordinary medical costs--not to mention growth in the small business sector.

As others have rightly pointed out, the fingerprints of big tobacco and big pharma are all over this push to regulate vaping out of existence and the ideological propaganda that legitimizes it.

Those of us on the right and the left need to stop attacking each other as it is part of a divide-and-conquer strategy.

We all have an interest in advancing pragmatic agendas that benefit everyone across the political spectrum. More to the point, we need to consider campaign finance reform, overturn citizens united and challenge the lobbyists that work against the well-being of citizens.
 

AntC

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I think one of the BIGGEST problems we have, that America has, is that most people just simply don't know what's really going on. What's worse, is that they don't care to know, either. The more digging I (we) do, the more I find that is wrong. I think if more people were educated about how this country is being ran, and I mean what's REALLY happening, they would take a stand. For now, its OUR problem, so they dont care. But sooner or later, when the regulations hit what they do, or what they love, THEN they'll care. Probably be too late for us though....
 
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