Hi guys. I wanted to get some input on Cotton. I've heard organic is the way to go and I've heard that Japanese cotton is the way to go. I've heard others still say regular cotton is fine as long as you boil it first (if you do boil your cotton.... how long...and do you let it dry first)? Do you boil organic? Is Japanese that much better...if so, why?
Cotton-4th Post
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Hey mate! You definitely want 100% organic virgin staple cotton, avoid anything that has been bleached/chlorined/etc. as while boiling might get some of those things off but who knows about all of it. I currently use swisspers, which you can even find on amazon.
If you want to boil your cotton, you basically add it to a pot of distilled water and boil for 10 minutes, then remove and let dry on paper towels -- it'll take a long time. Some change out the water and repeat it a few times before drying. Then use as directed once dry.
If it matters, I don't boil my swisspers.
Japanese cotton is better -- primarily because the fibers are aligned (I learnt this was called "carding" within the last few days; thanks chemicalemily!) -- which means it wicks better, as cotton is great for absorption but not inherently great at wicking when rolled into a ball of loose fibers. Whether you care depends mostly on your setup and needs. There are setups where it'll make a big difference, and setups where you'll generally never notice it.
Think of it as octane ratings for fuel -- higher octane is generally better, and sometimes required, but you'll generally not notice much difference in your el camino.
If you want to boil your cotton, you basically add it to a pot of distilled water and boil for 10 minutes, then remove and let dry on paper towels -- it'll take a long time. Some change out the water and repeat it a few times before drying. Then use as directed once dry.
If it matters, I don't boil my swisspers.
Japanese cotton is better -- primarily because the fibers are aligned (I learnt this was called "carding" within the last few days; thanks chemicalemily!) -- which means it wicks better, as cotton is great for absorption but not inherently great at wicking when rolled into a ball of loose fibers. Whether you care depends mostly on your setup and needs. There are setups where it'll make a big difference, and setups where you'll generally never notice it.
Think of it as octane ratings for fuel -- higher octane is generally better, and sometimes required, but you'll generally not notice much difference in your el camino.
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I would use organic cotton over "regular" cotton simply because I am not comfortable with the pesticides used on cotton crops. Yes, boiling/washing certainly can remove contaminants from pretty much any absorbent material, but since I don't know the pedigree of "standard" cotton, I feel better with organic.
And as drunkenbatman said, Japanese cotton can be superior in some applications. I believe because the fibers are mostly parallel to each other it wicks better than non-carded cotton, but I have no test data to support that hypothesis.
That being said, I mostly use other fibers - Rayon, in particular - because I think they have an edge over cotton. But I think cotton is a fine performer, and easy to work with once you get the hang of how much to use.
And as drunkenbatman said, Japanese cotton can be superior in some applications. I believe because the fibers are mostly parallel to each other it wicks better than non-carded cotton, but I have no test data to support that hypothesis.
That being said, I mostly use other fibers - Rayon, in particular - because I think they have an edge over cotton. But I think cotton is a fine performer, and easy to work with once you get the hang of how much to use.
Hey guys, wow I finally get to contribute to something as a newb! I am a fiber artist, and often spin my own yarn. Thought I'd give my two cents on a few things as regarding 'organic' cotton.
Many times, when something is labeled as 100% organic cotton, this means that NON-SYNTHETIC pesticides were used on it. There are yarns out there that get as close as humanly possible to zero pesticides at all, but I'm afraid to link them here, less I bring on the wrath of the mods.
As regarding the 'walmart' cotton yarns, i.e. peaches and creme, aunt lydia's, all those commercially spun cotton yarns: I'd like to clear a few things up:
These yarns are most definitely not organic. Most (though not all) commercially spun cotton yarns use cotton acquired from very large farming operations, and pesticides are used to: guarantee crop yield, and improve color/regulation of fiber. The cost these companies would have to pay to produce ONLY organic cotton yarns in these large amounts would be much, much higher, and we as customers would end up paying a much higher amount for 100 yards of fiber. We all know organic costs more, and the same applies to yarn.
Even if they're white, or ecru, THESE YARNS ARE NOT NATURALLY COLORED. They have been bleached, dyed, combed, carded, spun, all the while having chemicals added to improve the commercial spinning process, texture, and color-fastness. Boiling can not remove these chemicals. Any time fiber is dyed with anything other than naturally occurring ingredients, these dyes come with a giant TOXIC label on them. When I dye my own fiber, I wear a mask to stop the dye particles from entering my nose or mouth. Commercial companies use these dyes because it means the color will never wash out, and because cotton in it's naturally spun form is not a regulated color.
I am by no means an expert on wicking or vaping. I am very new. But I've been spinning and dyeing my own fibers for 15 years, and just thought I'd contribute with what I knew of the spinning and dyeing process! I am currently waiting on some vape mail: I ordered some organic cotton roving (unspun fiber) and am going to attempt to spin my own wicks. Though I may just try and force drunkenbatman to try them first, in case they suck.
Many times, when something is labeled as 100% organic cotton, this means that NON-SYNTHETIC pesticides were used on it. There are yarns out there that get as close as humanly possible to zero pesticides at all, but I'm afraid to link them here, less I bring on the wrath of the mods.
As regarding the 'walmart' cotton yarns, i.e. peaches and creme, aunt lydia's, all those commercially spun cotton yarns: I'd like to clear a few things up:
These yarns are most definitely not organic. Most (though not all) commercially spun cotton yarns use cotton acquired from very large farming operations, and pesticides are used to: guarantee crop yield, and improve color/regulation of fiber. The cost these companies would have to pay to produce ONLY organic cotton yarns in these large amounts would be much, much higher, and we as customers would end up paying a much higher amount for 100 yards of fiber. We all know organic costs more, and the same applies to yarn.
Even if they're white, or ecru, THESE YARNS ARE NOT NATURALLY COLORED. They have been bleached, dyed, combed, carded, spun, all the while having chemicals added to improve the commercial spinning process, texture, and color-fastness. Boiling can not remove these chemicals. Any time fiber is dyed with anything other than naturally occurring ingredients, these dyes come with a giant TOXIC label on them. When I dye my own fiber, I wear a mask to stop the dye particles from entering my nose or mouth. Commercial companies use these dyes because it means the color will never wash out, and because cotton in it's naturally spun form is not a regulated color.
I am by no means an expert on wicking or vaping. I am very new. But I've been spinning and dyeing my own fibers for 15 years, and just thought I'd contribute with what I knew of the spinning and dyeing process! I am currently waiting on some vape mail: I ordered some organic cotton roving (unspun fiber) and am going to attempt to spin my own wicks. Though I may just try and force drunkenbatman to try them first, in case they suck.
Very informative! Thank you to all of you!
Chemicalwmilly-I'm guessing you would probably not use organic cotton...what would you advise.(for us)..Japanese cotton....and if so, would you boil it?
DrumkenBatman-Tell me more about this Rayon? Where do you get it and what kind of additives and chemicals are in it? How does it vape?
All-What about Silica?
Chemicalwmilly-I'm guessing you would probably not use organic cotton...what would you advise.(for us)..Japanese cotton....and if so, would you boil it?
DrumkenBatman-Tell me more about this Rayon? Where do you get it and what kind of additives and chemicals are in it? How does it vape?
All-What about Silica?
I use rayon and to me it wicks just like a wide open straw, zero dry his and TONS of flavor.
To be completely honest, I have zero experience with 'japanese cotton'. It's obviously widely used in the vaping community, but personally, I've never spun with cotton specifically from Japan. In fact, if I were to search for 'Japanese cotton roving' or some such to purchase for spinning, my results would show that there is no difference between it and 'local' cotton. Something to keep in mind is that Japan has a HUGE cotton industry...perhaps this is why it is so vastly used. I imagine it's cheaper. Again, haven't gotten strongly into wicking yet (waiting on some mail
), so I'll leave that question to the vaping experts.As far as boiling goes, I think in general this is a good idea. I mean, with any fiber you're using for wicking, at the very least, it would rinse it/get some germs off, yeah? But again, guessing here. I'm currently using silica as that is how my wicks came, but am interested in trying out some different handspun fibers, and will continue to post as I experiment.
Here's something I'm curious about: The use of bamboo for wicking. Bamboo is much easier to grow and produce than cotton, has amazing wicking properties, and requires less pesticides to grow than cotton. Here's an interesting but simple read: Bamboo vs Cotton | Green Living Center
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it's funny, I seemed to skip right over cotton into readyxwick and ceramic wicks....I've even considered using hemp....bamboo would also be an interesting one to try.
Another thing to add, here: It is not only Japanese cotton that comes carded (aka fibers aligned). You can browse the internet for tons of spinning organic cotton fiber that will come carded. I just bought 1oz (which is more than it sounds, wick wise) for $4.
That's why I'm so interested in using bamboo. It's a cellulose fiber. Man, i love dual-wielding my hobbies.
I'm curious to try this out when I learn how to wick. Keeping in mind, CelluCotton is a brand. I believe there are two kinds: 100% rayon, and 50/50 cotton/rayon. Anyone have any experience in how they wick differently?
big difference... the cotton mix is slower and has that wet T-shirt flavor.... I prefer the 100% rayon... wicks faster, doesnt have the wet tshirt flavor, doesnt get that nasty harsh choking gag when you get close to or actually get a dry hit like cotton is capable of....
and 500 feet of it for 11$ will last you a lifetime
and 500 feet of it for 11$ will last you a lifetime
wonder what some other uses are
for rayon, and cotton/rayon...
also like the idea of food grade butchers twine...
for rayon, and cotton/rayon...
also like the idea of food grade butchers twine...
I know CelluCotton was invented as a cotton replacement in the 40's during the war. And not to be gross, but cotton/rayon is what 'girl diapers' are made out of.
Well it would appear that CelluCotton 100% Rayon might just be the stuff that dreams are made of! Wicks fast, no aftertaste. I guess it would be foolish not to give it a shot. ...Butchers twine and bamboo sound interesting as well. I know that Rayon is used for making clothing....I wonder how it's derived.and if it would be a good idea to boil it first.....very good info here.
I know rayon is a cellulose viscose, mainly taken from wood pulp, then chemically treated to achieve fiber staple length. But here's what I found on the amazing interwebs:
Cellulose: Production begins with processed cellulose
Immersion: The cellulose is dissolved in caustic soda: (C6H10O5)n + nNaOH → (C6H9O4ONa)n + nH2O
Pressing: The solution is then pressed between rollers to remove excess liquid
White Crumb: The pressed sheets are crumbled or shredded to produce what is known as "white crumb"
Aging: The "white crumb" is aged through exposure to oxygen
Xanthation: The aged "white crumb" is mixed with carbon disulfide in a process known as Xanthation, the aged alkali cellulose crumbs are placed in vats and are allowed to react with carbon disulfide under controlled temperature (20 to 30 °C) to form cellulose xanthate: (C6H9O4ONa)n + nCS2 → (C6H9O4O-SC-SNa)n
Yellow Crumb: Xanthation changes the chemical makeup of the cellulose mixture and the resulting product is now called "yellow crumb"
Viscose: The "yellow crumb" is dissolved in a caustic solution to form viscose
Ripening: The viscose is set to stand for a period of time, allowing it to ripen: (C6H9O4O-SC-SNa)n + nH2O → (C6H10O5)n + nCS2 + nNaOH
Filtering: After ripening, the viscose is filtered to remove any undissolved particles
Degassing: Any bubbles of air are pressed from the viscose in a degassing process
Extruding: The viscose solution is extruded through a spinneret, which resembles a shower head with many small holes
Acid Bath: As the viscose exits the spinneret, it lands in a bath of sulfuric acid, resulting in the formation of rayon filaments: (C6H9O4O-SC-SNa)n + ½nH2SO4 → (C6H10O5)n + nCS2 + ½nNa2SO4
Drawing: The rayon filaments are stretched, known as drawing, to straighten out the fibers
Washing: The fibers are then washed to remove any residual chemicals
Cutting: If filament fibers are desired the process ends here. The filaments are cut down when producing staple fibers
Cellulose: Production begins with processed cellulose
Immersion: The cellulose is dissolved in caustic soda: (C6H10O5)n + nNaOH → (C6H9O4ONa)n + nH2O
Pressing: The solution is then pressed between rollers to remove excess liquid
White Crumb: The pressed sheets are crumbled or shredded to produce what is known as "white crumb"
Aging: The "white crumb" is aged through exposure to oxygen
Xanthation: The aged "white crumb" is mixed with carbon disulfide in a process known as Xanthation, the aged alkali cellulose crumbs are placed in vats and are allowed to react with carbon disulfide under controlled temperature (20 to 30 °C) to form cellulose xanthate: (C6H9O4ONa)n + nCS2 → (C6H9O4O-SC-SNa)n
Yellow Crumb: Xanthation changes the chemical makeup of the cellulose mixture and the resulting product is now called "yellow crumb"
Viscose: The "yellow crumb" is dissolved in a caustic solution to form viscose
Ripening: The viscose is set to stand for a period of time, allowing it to ripen: (C6H9O4O-SC-SNa)n + nH2O → (C6H10O5)n + nCS2 + nNaOH
Filtering: After ripening, the viscose is filtered to remove any undissolved particles
Degassing: Any bubbles of air are pressed from the viscose in a degassing process
Extruding: The viscose solution is extruded through a spinneret, which resembles a shower head with many small holes
Acid Bath: As the viscose exits the spinneret, it lands in a bath of sulfuric acid, resulting in the formation of rayon filaments: (C6H9O4O-SC-SNa)n + ½nH2SO4 → (C6H10O5)n + nCS2 + ½nNa2SO4
Drawing: The rayon filaments are stretched, known as drawing, to straighten out the fibers
Washing: The fibers are then washed to remove any residual chemicals
Cutting: If filament fibers are desired the process ends here. The filaments are cut down when producing staple fibers
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