Cotton Candy using Ethyl Maltol

[HilseeJ]

I just made my first DIY purchase a week ago. However, I have yet to find a satisfying flavor.

I bought TPA Brown sugar, which apparently isn't good by itself.

I also bought Vanillin from TPA, which apparently isn't good by itself

I also bought TPA honey, which apparently isn't that good in general.

So now I'm left with two 30ml bottles of Ethyl Maltol crystals. I dissolved it the way one stop diy shop told me to Ethyl Maltol - One Stop DIY Shop Store

I made a batch of 10% Ethyl Maltol with 90% VG and 10% alchohol. This is using the EM concentration as instructed by OneStop.

Did the same thing using 20%.

Let both steep overnight. Still barely any flavor in either. It's kinda there, but nothing spectacular. And not that sweet at all.

Does anyone have any experience in making Cotton Candy flavor or Ethyl Maltol in general? My only next course of action is letting it steep or making a mixture with 30% flavoring, which seems a bit extreme.

I just ordered some Sucralose. How does that compare to Ethyl Maltol?

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

Hi HilseeJ

Sucralose tastes nasty to me with that artificial kind of aftertaste. I've tried Splenda in food and didn't like it that way either lol.

When I first started DIY e-liquids I tried EM in PG, VG and with Everclear but they were all way too sweet and too much "perfume" smelling, so I put them in the back of the shelf, behind everything and forgot about them. I made them at the suggested 1/4 tsp per 10ml also. I recently opened them back up and the smell in the room was instantly overpowering -- like a cotton candy factory exploded in here and I couldn't stand it OMG. Kind of funny now that I think about it though.

As it turns out my tastebuds changed and I don't use EM or any other sweeteners anymore. I hope you didn't throw anything out though. Come back to your creations in a month or 2 or 10 lol and see if they taste better to you, or not!

 

[Ryyparr]

I think that making a higher vg liquid takes longer for flavor to develop. I made a 70% juice of vg and flavor was terrible. I went to a 50/50 blend to get my flavor %s down and a steeping process down before messing with higher vg juices. A lot of my shop bought 100% vg juice doesn't have a lot of flavor either...

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

I let my 100%VG e-liquids "age" a week or a few months sometimes. Occasionally, when I get back to them to try later, they are too strong and I have to dilute with my VG nic base. ~sigh~

 

[HilseeJ]

Hi HilseeJ

Sucralose tastes nasty to me with that artificial kind of aftertaste. I've tried Splenda in food and didn't like it that way either lol.

That's kind of why I asked. Once I read that sucralose was essentially splenda based I figured it was hopeless. Why can't there just be a sugar flavor!?!? (or is there? O_O)

When I first started DIY e-liquids I tried EM in PG, VG and with Everclear but they were all way too sweet and too much "perfume" smelling, so I put them in the back of the shelf, behind everything and forgot about them. I made them at the suggested 1/4 tsp per 10ml also. I recently opened them back up and the smell in the room was instantly overpowering -- like a cotton candy factory exploded in here and I couldn't stand it OMG. Kind of funny now that I think about it though.

Do you remember how long you let them steep? (albeit accidentally)

As it turns out my tastebuds changed and I don't use EM or any other sweeteners anymore. I hope you didn't throw anything out though. Come back to your creations in a month or 2 or 10 lol and see if they taste better to you, or not!

I'll give that a shot. But when you say you "don't use sweeteners," what do you mean? Are you using flavors to sweeten something or you just take the juice as it is? If you are using flavors to sweeten, what do you recommend?

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

My taste buds discern the sweetness in the flavors themselves and I don't sweeten with sucralose or EM. Some people us EM to give a different "feeling" or they say it rounds out the flavor. Personally, I don't need it. In the beginning it's possible I was on information overload after reading all the DIY threads. I started out using high percentages because that seemed to be the consensus of what I had read but it was too much flavoring for me. Too much flavor made liquids actually lose flavor in many cases and I couldn't taste any flavor. Turns out I only need a drop (or 2 drops max) of flavor in a ml of nic base. How did you mix yours?

Sometimes I make up something and vape it right away, but I usually let liquids age a few weeks to a few months in general. Many people vape right away and never steep or age their liquids and that's ok too. Lots of different methods for sure.

Marshmallow flavor sweetens anything as does Cotton Candy flavor. Honey flavor does too but in different ways same as IRL.

Those EM mixtures that I made a year ago are so strong, I bet if I wanted to use it now, I would have to put one drop in a ml of nic base to dilute it first lol. I just haven't tried it. They're all sitting there waiting for another day when I'm bored with other stuff.

 

[03FXDWG]

Sucralose aka TFA Sweetener is just what it sounds like--artificial sweetener and it is powerful. I only use 2-4 tiny drops in a 20ml mixture. EM/Cotton Candy only slightly sweetens things. It's more useful to take the zing out of sharp flavors like orange. I put it in a lemon thinking it would make it sweeter and cut the zing. It smelled like lemon but didn't taste like anything. I let all my fruit & mint mixes set for at least 24 hours--shaking vigorously every time I walk past. 3 days seems to be the "perfect" point. You can speed up the process by giving them a hot water bath or zapping in the microwave in short bursts. Chocolate, tobacco & coffee flavors (probably others) just keep getting stronger. Fruit flavors tend to do the opposite. They peak in a week and then decrease in flavor. That has been my experience so far.

Why did you only order "sweet" flavors that most use as additives? If you want sweetness only, I would order marshmallow, bavarian cream or possibly vanilla cupcake. There may be a vanilla pudding also. Coconut Candy might be an option, too. Caramel I know is sweet and Dulce de leche might also fit the bill.

 

[HilseeJ]

My taste buds discern the sweetness in the flavors themselves and I don't sweeten with sucralose or EM. Some people us EM to give a different "feeling" or they say it rounds out the flavor. Personally, I don't need it. In the beginning it's possible I was on information overload after reading all the DIY threads. I started out using high percentages because that seemed to be the consensus of what I had read but it was too much flavoring for me. Too much flavor made liquids actually lose flavor in many cases and I couldn't taste any flavor. Turns out I only need a drop (or 2 drops max) of flavor in a ml of nic base. How did you mix yours?

I tried almost everything. I got Honey at 5%, Vanillin at 10%, and the EM @ 10 and 20%. It seems crazy to only put .5 ml of flavoring per 10 ml. (if we are working off of the 20 drops = 1 ml rule)

Why did you only order "sweet" flavors that most use as additives?

I'm asking myself the same question now. I thought they were good as a standalone.

 

[hazarada]

EM by itself tastes like nothing, its a flavor enhancer not a sweetener. Pair it with something creamy or sour, success ensured!

 

[ukeman]

Interesting posts… hmm I have been using Cotton Candy (TFA) for my EM use and til now use it to sweeten (or try to sweeten) and I've wondered why my attempts to imitate some store juices always come out not as sweet… so i'm assuming these pro's must use Sucralose (?)

I've shied away from Sucralose but after reading this i will try it just for the hell of it; see if it helps my imitations get closer to the mark.

 

[partyannimal]

That's kind of why I asked. Once I read that sucralose was essentially splenda based I figured it was hopeless. Why can't there just be a sugar flavor!?!? (or is there? O_O)



Do you remember how long you let them steep? (albeit accidentally)



I'll give that a shot. But when you say you "don't use sweeteners," what do you mean? Are you using flavors to sweeten something or you just take the juice as it is? If you are using flavors to sweeten, what do you recommend?

Actually Splenda is a Sucralose based sweetener, but Splenda is not as heat stable as Sucralose. Both are sucrose derivatives, and unlike Aspartame they don't have the nasty bitter aftertaste associated with Nutrasweet or other artificial sweeteners.
I've used both EM and Sucralose, depending on the juice. I'm not a big fan of EM because it adds it's own flavor and tends to mute other flavors. Ymmv of course.


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[Lyndagayle]

One of my favorite ADVs is nothing but EM and VG. I mix EM crystals in a 30ml glass bottle at app. the double recommended 1/4 tsp. per 10ml PG. Put it in the microwave for 10 seconds and shake until all crystals are dissolved. I then mix my recipe at 70% VG, 30% EM and vape away. Two of my favorite premixed vapes were EcoPure Rich and Malty. This recipe is very close to a clone. The beauty of this mix is more of what it isn't, as far as flavor goes. It's a great palate cleanser when you're suffering from flavor burn out. A few drops of sucralose will sweeten it if you prefer a sweeter mix. This is one flavor I will not be without. Wouldn't hurt to try it to see if it works for you until you find what you're looking for. Good luck with your endeavors, you'll get there.

 

[mxrdrver]

Juice makers don't just use one or another sweetner for their juices. They use a combination of several. I was listening to a podcast one day and the guy at aliceinvapeland was saying he used a mixture of EM, sucralose, and stevia to sweeten his juices. Personally, I use about 3-4% cotton candy and 1% TFA sweetner in most of my mixes. That's just me. Everybody's different. Start low and work your way up. Adding one 1/32 scoop of EM crystals to a 30ml bottle also works for some.

 

[partyannimal]

Juice makers don't just use one or another sweetner for their juices. They use a combination of several. I was listening to a podcast one day and the guy at aliceinvapeland was saying he used a mixture of EM, sucralose, and stevia to sweeten his juices. Personally, I use about 3-4% cotton candy and 1% TFA sweetner in most of my mixes. That's just me. Everybody's different. Start low and work your way up. Adding one 1/32 scoop of EM crystals to a 30ml bottle also works for some.

Never heard of this myself, but I'll try almost anything once.


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[Lexxon]

I just found this site talking about sweeteners. It doesn't look good. Would you guys check it out and let me know what you think?

Sucralose's Splenda Harms Vastly Underestimated: Baking Releases

 

[we2rcool]

I just found this site talking about sweeteners. It doesn't look good. Would you guys check it out and let me know what you think?

Sucralose's Splenda Harms Vastly Underestimated: Baking Releases

The 'heat causes conversion to dioxin' is the newest reason (amongst many) that we will not inhale or ingest sucralose. The three-letter authorities (with financial ties to fund the most publicized studies) continue to repetitiously repeat the "safety mantra", while the independent research and empirical evidence continues to reveal various levels of harm.

Like we always said in the food/restaurant/bar biz: "if in doubt, throw it out".

 

[bcollier9253]

I too was in DIY overload when I started a couple of months ago. I was using EM, cotton candy, Vape Wizard and smooth only to end in frustration because my flavors would always be muted. I did what all the pros said not to do and jumped right in making complex blends with multiple ingredients and once again ended up frustrated. I have since quit using all those additives upon reading more how they mute flavors, I still have been using (TFA) sweetener at maybe 1%~2^ and toned my flavors down and have been having real good luck.

 

[HilseeJ]

I have since quit using all those additives upon reading more how they mute flavors, I still have been using (TFA) sweetener at maybe 1%~2^ and toned my flavors down and have been having real good luck.

When you say toned your flavors down you mean using less flavor in a mix? Got any percentages you've been using?

In agreement with that note, I will say that I have had the most success with TFA's Honey - which surprised me when I read how much other people hated it. At 5% of a high vg mix, it really doesn't need any sweeteners.

One of my favorite ADVs is nothing but EM and VG. I mix EM crystals in a 30ml glass bottle at app. the double recommended 1/4 tsp. per 10ml PG. Put it in the microwave for 10 seconds and shake until all crystals are dissolved. I then mix my recipe at 70% VG, 30% EM and vape away.

This actually comes close to a cotton candy flavor in my opinion. I have honestly been using this as a base AND THEN adding the standard 10-15% of flavors, AND some sucralose. EM hasn't appeared to be doing much of anything under that level.

I've also been sub-ohming the juice, which I believe was part of the problem. I put an "okay" juice in my protank, which tends to mute flavors in my opinion, and I noticed I could taste the sweetness more, but got less of the flavor subtleties.

This is all very complicated, but I have made some progress. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[dannyv45]

One of my favorite ADVs is nothing but EM and VG. I mix EM crystals in a 30ml glass bottle at app. the double recommended 1/4 tsp. per 10ml PG. Put it in the microwave for 10 seconds and shake until all crystals are dissolved. I then mix my recipe at 70% VG, 30% EM and vape away.

That much EM is insane and expecially using it as a sweetener. EM is not really a sweetener it changes the chemical composition of the mix and changes the perception of the way your taste buds sense flavor. EM is used more to thicken and give more body to a mix and smooth out a mix. It may give already sweet flavoring a slight boost in sweetness but will also tend to mute the actual flavor. I suggest you read this.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ques-flavor-add-ons-em-vw-bw-mts-acv-ect.html

 

[Bob Chill]

I've found EM @ 1% or less to work really nice with hangsen tobaccos. gives the vape a fullness and ever so slight touch of sweet. I've never found much use for EM above 1-2%.

If you're looking for a sweet and complex vape with only 1 ingredient then maybe try TFA Black Honey Tobacco. I don't get much tobacco if any when I vape it @ 7%. Just a nice honey w/ spice tea sort of flavor. It's one of my favorites and simple to mix.