Cotton vs Silica?

[tommyboy66]

Waiting on my Kanger Subtank and looking forward to starting my own coil builds.
My question is,
1) can I use silica wicks with the Subtank?
2) what is more efficient in wicking and flavor, cotton or silica?
3)What are your experiences with each and why do you prefer one over the other?
Any and all feedback is appreciated.
Thanks

 

[ardvaark]

I went back to silica because I got tired of that sweet t-shirt burning taste I was getting from cotton. A lot of people (almost everyone) prefer that sweet taste, I don't like it, I don't care how much it makes the juice taste better. The thought of smoking a t-shirt now disgusts me.
FWIW
My 2 cents.

 

[minitater]

I went to rayon a year ago or so and gave away all my cotton and silica.

 

[ardvaark]

I went to rayon a year ago or so and gave away all my cotton and silica.

What does burning rayon taste like?lol

 

[orion7319]

I went back to silica because I got tired of that sweet t-shirt burning taste I was getting from cotton. A lot of people (almost everyone) prefer that sweet taste, I don't like it, I don't care how much it makes the juice taste better. The thought of smoking a t-shirt now disgusts me.
FWIW
My 2 cents.

I hear you, I absolutely can't stand the taste of cotton. Every form of cotton balls or rolled cotton I have tried has kind of an anteceptic chemical taste to me, and I can't get it to go away, though I have not tried koh gen do (because of the expense) I like silica, but it's becomming harder to find locally as all the vape shops near me seem to have these days is cotton. Silica is also quite pricy. I have reservations about rayon as to how it's processed, so I am reluctant to try it. Currently, I'm using sugar and cream pure cotton yarn, that I boil for twenty minutes in bottled water and then dry. I get absolutely no weird taste with this, and it's less than $2.00 for a supply that will most likely begin to dry rot before I could ever hope to go though it all. I re wick my Atties about three times a week with it, not because they need it, but more because I can.

 

[qorax]

I went to rayon a year ago or so and gave away all my cotton and silica.

Likewise > everything has been Rayoned since a year here, including my Evods with microcoil

 

[duc916]

I went back to silica because I got tired of that sweet t-shirt burning taste I was getting from cotton. A lot of people (almost everyone) prefer that sweet taste, I don't like it, I don't care how much it makes the juice taste better. The thought of smoking a t-shirt now disgusts me.
FWIW
My 2 cents.

Smoking a t-shirt? So you haven't figured out how to wick properly to prevent cotton from burning?

Even if cotton tasted like burning t-shirts, I'll take that over silicosis 100x over. They banned asbestos in the 80's from being anywhere in your house because of what it will do to your lungs, but you want to voluntarily use it in an inhaling device?

 

[93gc40]

I dn't have a subtank, but I really don't thing the atomizer matter for the which wick is better question.. From what I have seen, there is NO best wick material. There is what works best for YOU.

Me I use regular store bought cotton balls because it's cheap and easy to rewick with. I find the best flavor with silica, but I find silica hard to work with, compared to cotton balls. I have tried Rayon, but its not enough better than cotton to justify the extra cost. As for burning the cotton, yeah that can happen, But it is never the fault of the cotton. Everytime I have burned cotton, I was the cause. I was impatient (didn't alow juice to saturate the cotton), or lets the juice run out or went to long between cleanings or just did a bad job of wicking.

 

[Croak]

The t-shirt thing comes from either too much cotton, burning the cotton, dry cotton because of a poor wick install, or using treated cotton (which is why so many people recommend boiling).

It's beating a dead horse, but everyone should buy some Ko Gen Doh, Labo, Muji, or Shiseido and try it. I started with KGD, but I switched to Labo 5cmx6cm pads bought from Amazon for $7.00 and get the same results. One hit or two hits on a fresh, properly installed wick and the cotton taste is gone.

It's so much better than store-bought cotton balls it's not funny.

Besides excellent wicking properties and good flavor carrying ability, the best thing about the Japanese organic cotton pads is its consistency. Once you figure out how wide a strip needs to be, it's going to be the same results every time, unlike trying to judge how dense you've pulled and rolled a cotton ball or strip of rayon.

Plus, you're not soaking the whole thing with body oils, old juice, and whatever crud is on your hands like you would non-pad cotton or rayon trying to get it into shape, usually you're just touching the two ends and both of those get snipped off before you're done.

 

[orion7319]

The t-shirt thing comes from either too much cotton, burning the cotton, dry cotton because of a poor wick install, or using treated cotton (which is why so many people recommend boiling).

It's beating a dead horse, but everyone should buy some Ko Gen Doh, Labo, Muji, or Shiseido and try it. I started with KGD, but I switched to Labo 5cmx6cm pads bought from Amazon for $7.00 and get the same results. One hit or two hits on a fresh, properly installed wick and the cotton taste is gone.

It's so much better than store-bought cotton balls it's not funny.

Besides excellent wicking properties and good flavor carrying ability, the best thing about the Japanese organic cotton pads is its consistency. Once you figure out how wide a strip needs to be, it's going to be the same results every time, unlike trying to judge how dense you've pulled and rolled a cotton ball or strip of rayon.

Plus, you're not soaking the whole thing with body oils, old juice, and whatever crud is on your hands like you would non-pad cotton or rayon trying to get it into shape, usually you're just touching the two ends and both of those get snipped off before you're done.

Consistency is a huge factor to me with a wicking medium. That's one of the reasons I really like cotton yarn and silica wicks. I don't sub ohm and the yarn works really great for me, don't know how well it wicks in comparison to other wicks. There are concerns I have with everything though. Silica potentially has issues with (and I empasize the "potentially") with silicate particulates, all cotton products are degummed with who knows what kind of chemical process ( which is what I think I'm tasting in all the cotton until I boil it) and rayon apparently uses even nastier chemicals to degum than cotton. I would assume ceramic wicks might have particulates like silica, but I don't know. I watched a video that compared the wicking properties of all sorts of things and hemp looked like it did really well, but again I'm pretty sure they use some rather aggressive chemical processes to degum that stuff. What I would really like to try is some cotton straight from the fields, but some will point to the pesticides in it. Basically I have no idea what the "best" wicking material could possibly be, that was pure and free of chemicals and particulates. I've seen people wrap wickless coils for drippers, but these things apparently run hot.. Hot enough to potentially spit boiling hot juice at you. I do think though, that it is possible to engineer a wickless system all together and that would be the ideal obviously from a health risk prospective and from a flavor prospective. What I have observed in ecigs is that radically different ideas come out few and far between, and when they do every manufacture just rushes out to put their own spin on their basic designs (think Kayfun).

 

[duc916]

Okay, I can get on board with that. I thought you were saying all cotton is bad. Even when I first started with KGD I thought all my juices tasted as good as they were going to get. I don't know if that's true or not, but the risks associated with everything else aren't worth it. Safety first. Just because I used to be a dumb 8ss smoker doesn't excuse my decisions today.

 

[ardvaark]

I have my Ko Gen cotton relaxed by a monk in Siberia praying over it for no less than 3 full 24 hour periods. The flavor is so much better now! I know of a guru in California that is available to relax cotton fibers if you are so inclined. Its not very expensive either. Relaxed cotton that has been in a meditative state has been shown to accept and release the nicotine molecules much better. Also, when being heated by the coil they release the vapor in a far more gentle manner decreasing popping by 90%!. Unfortunately, store bought cotton is in an unrecoverable state of shock and cannot be relaxed. Curious, I do not see why not. I mean cotton is cotton isn't it? Turns out the soil, water used for feeding the plants play a crucial role during the plants life. The secret for properly grown cotton, he told me, is that after it is harvested, it must be placed in beds of new baby cotton seeds in a climate controlled Zen garden with natural lighting during on certain hours of the day. I could not get him to tell me the temperature needed or what hours of the day(night?) though....go figure.

 

[Croak]

I have my Ko Gen cotton relaxed by a monk in Siberia praying over it for no less than 3 full 24 hour periods. The flavor is so much better now! I know of a guru in California that is available to relax cotton fibers if you are so inclined. Its not very expensive either. Relaxed cotton that has been in a meditative state has been shown to accept and release the nicotine molecules much better. Also, when being heated by the coil they release the vapor in a far more gentle manner decreasing popping by 90%!. Unfortunately, store bought cotton is in an unrecoverable state of shock and cannot be relaxed. Curious, I do not see why not. I mean cotton is cotton isn't it? Turns out the soil, water used for feeding the plants play a crucial role during the plants life. The secret for properly grown cotton, he told me, is that after it is harvested, it must be placed in beds of new baby cotton seeds in a climate controlled Zen garden with natural lighting during on certain hours of the day. I could not get him to tell me the temperature needed or what hours of the day(night?) though....go figure.

What are you, a Democrat or something? Everyone knows that good cotton is disciplined cotton, not relaxed.

Japanese cotton pads contain nothing but disciplined cotton. All those cotton fibers lined up in a row, like troops marching off to war, carrying the essential fluid to the front lines of never-ending coil warfare, rushing to the sounds of combat. There's no room here for lackadaisical fluid transport...a relaxed bunch fiber lying down on the job eventually dooms their squaddies on the front to a horrible, fiery death.

 

[ardvaark]

What are you, a Democrat or something? Everyone knows that good cotton is disciplined cotton, not relaxed.

Japanese cotton pads contain nothing but disciplined cotton. All those cotton fibers lined up in a row, like troops marching off to war, carrying the essential fluid to the front lines of never-ending coil warfare, rushing to the sounds of combat. There's no room here for lackadaisical fluid transport...a relaxed bunch fiber lying down on the job eventually dooms their squaddies on the front to a horrible, fiery death.

I was getting to that but you beat me too it! You crazy man you!

 

[minitater]

Burnt rayon is as bad as burnt cotton. As 93gc mentioned there is no BEST wicking material, it is what works for you that is best. I switched to rayon because it seems to wick better, last longer ( as far as gunking up goes) and it is cheap and it gives me a better taste and seems less likely to burn.

 

[ardvaark]

Is silica really as bad or worse than asbestos? Ive been vaping it for 2.5 years in my kayfuns. Should I get an xray? lol

 

[tchavei]

What does burning rayon taste like?lol

Same as cotton.

I have reservations about rayon as to how it's processed, so I am reluctant to try it.

I also have my doubts about the way cow meat is processed but I still eat steaks and hamburgers (which I probably shouldn't)

all cotton products are degummed with who knows what kind of chemical process ( which is what I think I'm tasting in all the cotton until I boil it) and rayon apparently uses even nastier chemicals to degum than cotton.

If you knew how our food is processed you probably wouldn't touch (yet alone eat) half of it.

Have you guys ever thought about the weeks that cotton plants spend there outside, day and night with all kinds of bugs crawling over them, birds ...... on those white blobs that look like bird toilets and God knows that else?

You will say, hey but it's washed afterwards!
Yes it is... Just like rayon is cleaned from anything used in the manufacturing process.

If your concerns are hygienic, get some freak fibers. They are 100% rayon that has been sterilized.

Now, to answer as unbiased as possible to the OP:

It's a matter of choosing what properties are the most important to you

Silica / Ekowool: consistent and repeatable. Once you find your best technique, you will be able to repeat that build over and over again. Silica wicks will last you a long time and you can dry burn them up to 5 times until you loose capillary action capabilities (they tend to harden with each dry burn). I find the flavor a bit muted compared to other wick types.

Cotton: better taste, cheap and always available. I find it gunking very fast. Almost needs a daily rebuild. It's too messy for me but opinions will vary. I find it hard to repeat exactly the same setup unless you have experience.

Rayon: for me the best of two worlds (and also the worst lol). It lasts a long time (my current wick has 125ml through it) and the taste is as neutral as it gets. You will be surprised how well you can taste the different notes of your juice.
It's as cheap or cheaper as cotton in the USA (Sally Beauty) but hard to find in Europe. It requires a learning curve as it doesn't expand like cotton (actually it shrinks) and it will take some time to get used to. It's not as repeatable as silica and you will take a few days or weeks to replicate success on every build.


Btw, when you get a dry hit with rayon, the horrid taste comes from the coil. Rayon actually takes much more to actually burn than we think. Just rebuild after a dry hit and wash the old rayon under running water... It will most likely be snow white with no charring.



Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.