Court Defeat for a Vaping Dealer in Western Australia
- Thread starter Nick Rouhliadeff
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Please tell us where to find it as every on line store I have visited declines Paypal saying the US will not allow us to use it for Vape Goods. Damned if I will put my C.C. on line.
it's a brick and mortar store right here in town in middle Tennessee..
I don't think they do online sales..
but when i sign the ipad it's a pay pal app they are using..
unless pay pal just started this in the last couple of weeks maybe? it's been a couple of weeks since i've been there..
oh also here is vape stuff being sold on ebay in the U.S.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ecig-THE-DIAMANTE-BY-VaprLife-BLUE-body-/251501368733?pt=US_Cigarettes&hash=item3a8ea6559d
I don't think they do online sales..
but when i sign the ipad it's a pay pal app they are using..
unless pay pal just started this in the last couple of weeks maybe? it's been a couple of weeks since i've been there..
oh also here is vape stuff being sold on ebay in the U.S.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ecig-THE-DIAMANTE-BY-VaprLife-BLUE-body-/251501368733?pt=US_Cigarettes&hash=item3a8ea6559d
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If you can reach out to US stores and find an employee you can trust who would be willing (ECF is great for networking) you could PayPal the person and have them buy the goods and ship them. It still supports the business and gets the goods to those that need them. Postage will still be a bear and returning anything troublesome would be equally difficult.
The pity is that the health departments around the world don't do much to stop the sale of real cigarettes. I sometimes wonder if I started smoking because my mother used to stick a dummy in my mouth when I was just a baby. Maybe dummies should be banned. Or mothers? Can't bring a test case against my own mum for technical reasons (deceased) but surely we could start a class action against dummy manufacturers and/or suppliers if the health department refuses to take action on our behalf. With luck we could get a judge like the one in WA and put an end to the whole rotten business.
PayPal hasn't been a problem for me with sales, purchasing only..I am not a retailer. Just don't mention ecigs anywhere on the transaction and it goes through. Last I knew Health Cabin, Liberty Flights and Discount Vapers accept paypal. Liberty Flights ships overseas, they have sites based out of UK and USA. Not sure if the others ship to you, but it wouldn't hurt to check. There may be other sites that take PayPal as well, maybe someone else here knows of some?
Interesting vape, I had a quick look but it seems he does not ship to Australia. I advertised on a subsidiary of Ebay called Gumtree in Australia, I got the wording wrong and they kicked my add off. It was for a Mod control unit. I changed the wording and sold two units on Gumtree. The add on ebay gives no description of the product features.
As to PayPal, well I have no problems using them for E-Cigs in Australia for sales and even have a phone app that accepts C.C.'s The difficulty arises when I try to shop in the USA. Some dealers like this one on Ebay does not ship to us. Fine, I use MyUSA.com and get them to ship it to them, they consolidate my order if there is more than one and I only pay one lot of freight. However due to PayPal lack of acceptance there is only one E-juice vendor I deal with there now and he sells Natural concentrates and does take PayPal as he is not a vendor of E-Juice.
Nick - we can use paypal but they can't use it for ecig stuff in the US. If they are caught their paypal account gets frozen. I've never had any problems using cc - just check that the vendor is reliable before buying. Or use a prezzy card. They work too.
Not sure on ebay but they used to have a no ecig policy - I don't know if that's changed.
Not sure on ebay but they used to have a no ecig policy - I don't know if that's changed.
Very good point, my partner who is not only a clinical psychologist but a registered nurse as well has often said the same thing. She calls it the "comfort zone" that we smokers and former smokers seem to mentally regress to at time of stress or to find comfort as if we were sucking on a dummy or our mothers breast.''
I wonder if the fool judge in W.A. would rule that dummy sucking and breast feeding is akin to smoking 8-o shock horror a breast feeding mum would need a tobacco license.8-o8-o8-o8-o8-o
Nick
Thanks KiwiVap, no buddy I will not use my C.C. on line. I did so once, form a supplier I will not name. I ordered the goods in the begining of February and they came by USA Priority mail whatever that means. I never got the goods until the 29th of March. That sort of service suxs in anyone's books. I order from Yaliq in Israel, E-Juice China, Best-Cig in China and also from a company in Canada and my goods come within 10-12 business days. In China I can use TNT or DHL not a worry and I can pay by PayPal. The Same with Iseael and Canada. Why the heck is the USA being discriminated against by their own company is beyond my comprehension.
The simple solution for a USA dealer would be to have a paypal account email address and keep it of their website. Then when a customer wants to pay by paypal, they do not describe the product as an e-cig product but call it say for example a torch battery and not a problem. E-Juice you can call Food Flavouring. Clearo's call them bottles etc., To hell with discrimination.
It works I know of two vendors that do it but they prefer not to be named for obvious reasons.
Nick
My real concern is that the WA decision will lead to closure of all ecig suppliers in Australia. And if that happens will our beloved goverment also reverse its policy regarding our rights to import vaping supplies? Concerns about security of credit card details and Paypal's inconsistent application of policy between USA and the rest of the world will then become irrelevant. I hope these concerns prove to be unfounded - meanwhile, I'm stocking up ...
As for ebay, I just checked ebay UK and they have several thousand vaping items on sale, most being sourced from USA as Americans are trying to circumvent the restrictions in their own country.
Yeah mine too. Was just giving some info in case he didn't know. I buy some stuff across the Tazzie sometimes and really hope you guys win out on this.
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Hi Phanto,
I personally do not think that our "beloved government" will go down that path. What I do think may happen is they will increase the excise on nicotine e-juice to the same level as the current excise on tobacco and alcohol. I do not know if you know it or not but at present there is being conducted by the University of Queensland, considerable research into e-cigarettes and e-juice. If the government beloved or nay, was interested in totally eliminating e-cigarettes in Australia, then why would the University of Queensland which is after all dependant on research grants from various sources including the government wasting time on this research.
What I would be interested in knowing though, who is funding the research for the University of Queensland?
I am a very suspicious cus, and forgive me if I sound paranoid on this, but my suspicions are that could it be the tobacco companies and Pharmaceutical companies?
I have read on many a blog, forum and website, that some Pharmaceutical companies are already gearing up to produce nic e-juice. What no one really knows at present is what the long term effect of vaping is.
The decision of the Judge in Western Australia was not to ban e-cigarette sales. It was that vaping is akin to smoking and vapes should not be sold by someone not holding a valid tobacco licence. I do not have a problem with that having applied and obtained my tobacco license ages ago. The donkey rider judge did not say that e-cigs should be banned.
As to ebay, I tried to put up a e-cig products on Ebay AU and they told me that it was not allowed. So unless they have had a change of heart we in Au are stuffed.
No, I will not buy form the UK their freight charges are ridiculous, and yes I do business with one person in the USA and I have an account with him and pay him after the goods are delivered to MyUSA.com who then forward my orders to me by a carrier of my choice be it post, DHL, or TNT. It depends how much of a hurry I am for the goods. For payment I use either Westren Union or EFT through my bank.
I also have stocked up considerably with goodies from China and have sufficient Nic Juice and bases to last me for some considerable time. None of our customers will be left wanting for supplies. I am not permitted to put a link to my site here but if you wish to PM me I can give you the link
Lets us look at it this way, do you honestly think that our "beloved government" is going to waste their resources policing importaition and distribution of vapes and e-juice, they have enough on their plate with the control of illegal drugs. It is not rocket science to manufacture a vape and whilst it is cheaper at present to import from China no one is bothering to make them in Australia. If that door is closed, which I very much doubt it will be then I am sure Aussie manufacturers will look at the prospect be it in the open or underground.
I also do not believe that vapes and their acceccories and the possession of the same will attract a penal code as does ......... or other illegal substances. Even the ......... laws now have been relaxed to a great degree in this country. Why?
Simply because the law enforcers do not have sufficient resources to bust ever kid that is smoking a joint.
Do you honestly think they have the resources to bust every vape user in Australia?
I very much doubt it!
Have a great day
Nick.
I would very much like to sympathize with you guys, but our own idiots (read the FDA) are about to introduce their "deeming" regulations wrt e-cigarettes any minute now...
Yes, dnield, they are everywhere.
Wish us luck--we're going to need it.
Hi Katya,
I read the FDA thread and understand what you mean. Overnight correspondence with a friend and small ecig retailer in USA confirmed that he and many other similar retailers will find it very difficult to survive more than another year or so. I guess that's because of the potential costs and complexity of complying with the proposed regulations. Large businesses probably be OK. But at least you guys do not face a ban because of the ruling by some bewigged buffoon.
Best of luck!
Hi Nick,
I agree with you about the excise duty - surprised it has not happened already.
As to some of your other points - all valid - is it not ludicrous that ecig suppliers might have to go underground whilst retailers of cancer sticks continue to flourish. Sounds like science fiction. With regard to persecution of end users I'm not sure where that came from - it never even crossed my mind - my only concern was that the mails might not get through!
Keep up the good work.
G'day All,
I have been following this debate on Facebook ever since the news broke, What I fail to understand and forgive me if I am somewhat thick on this matter, the look alike cigarettes the class one gizmos, are the ones that are causing problems almost everywhere, the class or category two and three vapes do not in the least resemble a cigarette correct?
Then can some one please tell me just what is this judges problem?
I totally agree that a vape that resembles a cigarette is very confusing to owners of establishments where there is no smoking in force. I for one do not like those vapes for several reasons, some like the ones made my a company called Smoke NV it is near impossible to refill and are zero nicotine. I do not see the feasibility of these things as most of us ex smokers do need a nicotine fix to help us get over the cravings. I my self have tried all the alternatives including patches, acupuncture and hypnotherapy to no use. Going cold turkey drove me and my family nearly insane.
I agree with all the posts I have read in this thread, especially the fact which is very much on the cards that e-cig supplies may have to go underground and the retailers of cancer sticks are allowed to legally prosper. Evil flourishes alas. I do recall reading somewhere that a class action was started against some tobacco company in Canada by all the smokers that have contracted cancer from their products. It would be almost like the class action against James Hardie and their asbestos poisoning.
Indeed all our governments are the biggest organised crime syndicates the civilised world has known I could not agree more and it is obvious to me they want to kill people with the continuing sales of cancer sticks. Go figure
Dymo316
Don't think they actually want to kill people - they are just prepared to accept some collateral damage whilst protecting a major source of taxation revenue.
Don't think they actually want to kill people - they are just prepared to accept some collateral damage whilst protecting a major source of taxation revenue.
Thank you. Big Tobacco wants to control the market--the cigs and e-cigs. Win-win.
We're going to fight it. It's going to be ugly, but we're not giving up.
Cheers and a hug to all of you down under!
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