Court Defeat for a Vaping Dealer in Western Australia

[phanto]

I do not know if you know it or not but at present there is being conducted by the University of Queensland, considerable research into e-cigarettes and e-juice. If the government beloved or nay, was interested in totally eliminating e-cigarettes in Australia, then why would the University of Queensland which is after all dependant on research grants from various sources including the government wasting time on this research.

Nick.

Hi again,

One of the advantages of being a retiree is you have plenty of time to devote to items of interest. So I checked up on the UQ research. I quote: "The research is being conducted independently of government. The purpose of the trial is to test the safety and effectiveness of e-cigarettes for smoking cessation by comparing their effectiveness in helping smokers to quit with traditional cessation aids such as nicotine gum and inhalators" - and funding came from a National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) grant.

I believe the researchers and the NHMRC are on the level. I certainly hope so, and I think the results will be interesting. Personally, I think ecigs will win hands down against proven failures like nicabate - it should be like the Mighty Hawks against just about anybody else except The Cats.

 

[Dymo316]

Hi again,

One of the advantages of being a retiree is you have plenty of time to devote to items of interest. So I checked up on the UQ research. I quote: "The research is being conducted independently of government. The purpose of the trial is to test the safety and effectiveness of e-cigarettes for smoking cessation by comparing their effectiveness in helping smokers to quit with traditional cessation aids such as nicotine gum and inhalators" - and funding came from a National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) grant.

I believe the researchers and the NHMRC are on the level. I certainly hope so, and I think the results will be interesting. Personally, I think ecigs will win hands down against proven failures like nicabate - it should be like the Mighty Hawks against just about anybody else except The Cats.

Thanks for that info, indeed the results will be interesting especially in view of the proven failures. The only thing that scares me is that if the research is found in favour of the device will the government allow it or continue their hate campaign. As to the requirements of the FDA, not having looked into them, I suspect that the cost is aimed at suppressing the small time traders and give all the proceeds to the mega rich companies.

I do have faith that e-cigs will in in the end but the fight will be costly and dirty.

Dymo

 

[phanto]

Thanks for that info, indeed the results will be interesting especially in view of the proven failures. The only thing that scares me is that if the research is found in favour of the device will the government allow it or continue their hate campaign. As to the requirements of the FDA, not having looked into them, I suspect that the cost is aimed at suppressing the small time traders and give all the proceeds to the mega rich companies.

I do have faith that e-cigs will in in the end but the fight will be costly and dirty.

Dymo

OK Dymo, but look on the bright side - if the findings from a prestigious research institution such as the one at UQ, backed by funding from the highly respected NHMRC, does come down in favour of ecigs as a smoking cessation product it would be a world first and nobody could ignore it. Hell, it might even become possible for smokers to get the products on prescription. If the findings are inconclusive it will make virtually no difference to the current situation. However, I have no idea yet what the time frame is for the project and I hope that the current supply situation does not deteriorate too much before the findings are released. Meanwhile, as the saying goes, "Keep Calm and Carry On Vaping."

 

[kiwivap]

OK Dymo, but look on the bright side - if the findings from a prestigious research institution such as the one at UQ, backed by funding from the highly respected NHMRC, does come down in favour of ecigs as a smoking cessation product it would be a world first and nobody could ignore it. Hell, it might even become possible for smokers to get the products on prescription. If the findings are inconclusive it will make virtually no difference to the current situation. However, I have no idea yet what the time frame is for the project and I hope that the current supply situation does not deteriorate too much before the findings are released. Meanwhile, as the saying goes, "Keep Calm and Carry On Vaping."

They did a study here in NZ which had results positive for vaping. I notice it has been getting cited in the mainstream media outside of NZ - in the US or UK (can't remember which or if both at the moment). Yes, I think these studies work in our favor overall - with a few exceptions that are badly conducted or the findings are spun into something else. They cost money tho - so its a slow process.

 

[phanto]

They did a study here in NZ which had results positive for vaping. I notice it has been getting cited in the mainstream media outside of NZ - in the US or UK (can't remember which or if both at the moment). Yes, I think these studies work in our favor overall - with a few exceptions that are badly conducted or the findings are spun into something else. They cost money tho - so its a slow process.

Hi, thanks for that. I guess you are referring to a study done in Auckland in which 657 smokers who wanted to quit were randomised into three groups in order to test the effectiveness of electronic cigarettes with and without nicotine compared with patches. The basic success criterion was how many had quit by the end of 6 months. The researchers were disappointed by the low success rates for all groups, but the best result was obtained by the ecig with nico group (7.3%) and the lowest result came from the ecig without nico group (4.1%). Patches, the middle group, had only a 5.8% success. Unfortunately, the results were not statistically significant because of the low sample size and the conclusion was "E-cigarettes, with or without nicotine, were modestly effective at helping smokers to quit, with similar achievement of abstinence as with nicotine patches" The team stressed the urgent need for more research. Personally, I think it was a promising start. Especially as the ecigs used in the trial were the little lookalikes which I think are next to useless - still we could not expect a research team to be handing out 362 Sigelei mods or even ego-C twists.

Having said all that, many of us don't want to quit anyway, but we all want a safe alternative. Many of us believe we have found one but, unfortunately, we don't seem to have any evidence strong enough to convince the powers that be. Our assertion that the danger of cigarettes is well established and e-liquids must be safer falls on deaf ears. That's the area where we need some really strong, reputable research.

 

[kiwivap]

- still we could not expect a research team to be handing out 362 Sigelei mods or even ego-C twists.

Now that would be cool! Yes, that's the study. What I found interesting was seeing media pick upon it and quote it - without knocking ecigs and in a positive tone. I'm not surprised by the low success rate for - some of the cigalikes sold here are not great. I wish Aus and NZ vapers could by nic locally. It would make it easier for people. I wanted to quit cigs. That's why I started vaping. I've been cig free over 2 years now.

 

[ForeverDiving]

i can't believe a judge can be so idiot !

Are judges lawyers in your country too? In mine they are, by law they must have a law degree (pun intended). If so, there you have it; it's axiomatic. (automatic?)
Gonna get sued on Monday as soon as courts open...

PS, same applies to corruption!

 

[salemgold]

I was just reading this thread and noticed that the OP has been banned. Not sure what is up with that?

 

[salemgold]

Thank you. Big Tobacco wants to control the market--the cigs and e-cigs. Win-win.

We're going to fight it. It's going to be ugly, but we're not giving up.

Cheers and a hug to all of you down under!

+

What she ^^^^ said

 

[ForeverDiving]

On lawyers and intelligence+morals:

An engineer, a filosopher and a lawyer take an aritmethic exam: how much is 2+2?
Answers given:
Engineer: 4.
Filosopher: in abstract it may be four but for according to the individual perception of reality it can be any real or unreal number, most likely from -Ꝏ to Ꝏ/0.
Lawyer: How much do you want it to be?

 

[Katya]

I was just reading this thread and noticed that the OP has been banned. Not sure what is up with that?

Oops....

 

[kiwivap]

I was just reading this thread and noticed that the OP has been banned. Not sure what is up with that?

Started an important topic anyway.

 

[Katya]

Started an important topic anyway.

Just FYI--it's against the rules to discuss moderating decisions publicly.

And yes, he did bring up an important topic.

 

[kiwivap]

Just FYI--it's against the rules to discuss moderating decisions publicly.

And yes, he did bring up an important topic.

I know. I didn't think I was since I don't know what the decision was about and wasn't voicing disagreement with anything - but I'll edit it then. Then over to Aussie Vapers for the latest.

 

[Katya]

I know. I didn't think I was since I don't know what the decision was about and wasn't voicing disagreement with anything - but I'll edit it then. Then over to Aussie Vapers for the latest.

Edited your quote in my response.

It's all good.

 

[phanto]

Just FYI--it's against the rules to discuss moderating decisions publicly.

And yes, he did bring up an important topic.

Hi Katya,

Just woke up after spending most of the night trying to decipher the legalese involved in the case referred to in the thread starter. First thing I noticed was that someone has been banned - can you tell me who or why etc. Actually woke up thinking that this thread should be in the Legal section of the forum or a new thread should be started..... Help, anybody???

 

[kiwivap]

Hi Katya,

Just woke up after spending most of the night trying to decipher the legalese involved in the case referred to in the thread starter. First thing I noticed was that someone has been banned - can you tell me who or why etc. Actually woke up thinking that this thread should be in the Legal section of the forum or a new thread should be started..... Help, anybody???

Either the legal or the AUS/NZ forum would be good to discuss the WA court decision. I think the legal since it's a legal issue. Its seems the case is more complicated than it appears in some ways. But the central point -the judge is way off to make that decision.

 

[Katya]

Hi Katya,

Just woke up after spending most of the night trying to decipher the legalese involved in the case referred to in the thread starter. First thing I noticed was that someone has been banned - can you tell me who or why etc. Actually woke up thinking that this thread should be in the Legal section of the forum or a new thread should be started..... Help, anybody???

No I can't--it's against TOS. Please see above.

 

[phanto]

No I can't--it's against TOS. Please see above.

Don't give a toss about TOS even though I don't know what it stands for. I wasn't planning to have a debate or a discussion - just curious to know who had been banned. No matter.

Bye Katya

 

[Robino1]

Moved to Law and the E-Cigarette