DA, AP and "Popcorn Lung"

[olix00]

But for a non-smoker (never-smoker), do you believe there is any chance of him (me in this case) to develop any thing ( i don't mean popcorn lung specifically this time) ? Thanks. And thanks for all the prevous answers

Right now I am vaping menthol liquid ( an european e-juice from liqua -no diacetyl-), ss316L on TC mode on a cuboid (keeping it under 200°C). I was vaping kanthal for a while until I finally found stainless steel wire to make the TC work. Now it's another level, no dry hits, no residual acrolein-like taste!
What do you think ? Could I make it safer anyhow ?

 

[bones1274]

I posted this previously on a different thread, but I think it applies here.

I smoked 1PPD for 21 years and quit in 2010 using an e-cig. For the last 6 years, 99% of the juices I have vaped have been vanilla custards from multiple vendors with an occasional French vanilla or bakery juice thrown in to mix it up. Anyways, due to a medical condition unrelated to smoking, (burn pit exposure) I have had EXTENSIVE lung testing over the last year as follows:

1. Pulmonary breathing test. (sitting in a glass box and breathing into a tube for a variety of tests for 45 min)
2. Methacolene challenge. (used to determine if you have asthma)
3. Stationary bike test (30 min on a bike with full O2 face mask, BP cuff, and 15 or so different monitors stuck all around your chest. Resistance on the bike increases over time and a Doctor administers the test.)
4. CT scan of the lungs.
5. MRI of the lungs.
6. High resolution CT of the lungs, x2.
7. VQ scan (like a CT but they inject you with radioactive dye. You also inhale radioactive solution throughout the test and it shows real time video of you breathing and how the dye is absorbed into your lungs).
8. PET Scan (like a CT but you are injected with radioactive dye.) x2.
9. Angiogram
10. High Stress Angiogram (Angiogram performed when your heart rate is forced by medication to hit its maximum rate, 165 BPM. Heart issues can cause breathing issues).

Every single test showed that I had normal lung function with absolutely no signs of damage from smoking, or vaping. My Pulmonologist has said that my lungs have healed nicely from the two decades of smoking and he doesn't see any damage to my lungs related to smoking or vaping. Until someone can produce CONCLUSIVE evidence or do more testing than I have done, that shows that vaping the aforementioned chemicals WILL cause "popcorn lung" or other substantial damage to the lungs, I will not be changing course. There are eleventy billion threads about this topic on the forums here, and everyone seems to be turning this into a "Chicken Little the sky is falling" discussion, when really it isn't.

 

[olix00]

I posted this previously on a different thread, but I think it applies here.

I smoked 1PPD for 21 years and quit in 2010 using an e-cig. For the last 6 years, 99% of the juices I have vaped have been vanilla custards from multiple vendors with an occasional French vanilla or bakery juice thrown in to mix it up. Anyways, due to a medical condition unrelated to smoking, (burn pit exposure) I have had EXTENSIVE lung testing over the last year as follows:

1. Pulmonary breathing test. (sitting in a glass box and breathing into a tube for a variety of tests for 45 min)
2. Methacolene challenge. (used to determine if you have asthma)
3. Stationary bike test (30 min on a bike with full O2 face mask, BP cuff, and 15 or so different monitors stuck all around your chest. Resistance on the bike increases over time and a Doctor administers the test.)
4. CT scan of the lungs.
5. MRI of the lungs.
6. High resolution CT of the lungs, x2.
7. VQ scan (like a CT but they inject you with radioactive dye. You also inhale radioactive solution throughout the test and it shows real time video of you breathing and how the dye is absorbed into your lungs).
8. PET Scan (like a CT but you are injected with radioactive dye.) x2.
9. Angiogram
10. High Stress Angiogram (Angiogram performed when your heart rate is forced by medication to hit its maximum rate, 165 BPM. Heart issues can cause breathing issues).

Every single test showed that I had normal lung function with absolutely no signs of damage from smoking, or vaping. My Pulmonologist has said that my lungs have healed nicely from the two decades of smoking and he doesn't see any damage to my lungs related to smoking or vaping. Until someone can produce CONCLUSIVE evidence or do more testing than I have done, that shows that vaping the aforementioned chemicals WILL cause "popcorn lung" or other substantial damage to the lungs, I will not be changing course. There are eleventy billion threads about this topic on the forums here, and everyone seems to be turning this into a "Chicken Little the sky is falling" discussion, when really it isn't.

I think the problem is that propably if not diacetyl is the substance that produces popcorn lung, that probably another one is and we might be putting it as a flavor without knowing. Or probably the popcorn lung was related to a manufacturing process ( of that popcorn bags ) so it might not be a certain substance after all. Or it might be that a combination of substances gets you popcorn lung, substances which might have been in the popcorn seeds and mixed with other substances as well.

Popcorn lung is an alergic reaction to something, that is the white cells get in and eat the lung over time, and also fibrous tissue develops in the lung in parralel. Allergic reactions can be developed from small organic substances ( that the body doesn't usually come into contact, unlike glycerine, and like pg, meds etc.), but it might also be that proteins ( from the corn seeds ) were flying in the air in that factory and that could be the cause of popcorn lung in the factories. Popcorn lung was also found in coffee factories, where coffee seeds are shred to produce coffee. The coincidence was that diacetyl was also used in some factories, but the thing is is that diacetyl is also used in butter, milk and cheese factories, and I don't think workers in these factories ever had popcorn lung.

Smokers do not develop popcorn lung ( although they might develop other tipes of bronchitis ), because the tobacco plant matter also has proteins, but proteins get rapidly denatured above 50°C and they get destroied by the fire in the cigarette.
We can know that smokers do not develop popcorn lung because this is a condition that when started, ther gradually evolves. When smokers quit or start vaping, their health comes back to normal, but nothing else continues developing from that point on, even when cigarettes contain diacetyl in the order of mg, when e-liquids contain it in the order of nanograms or micrograms. More research is needed, and I would like to see it asap.

Then there is the problem that diacetyl binds to proteins in the lung and denatures them, making them prone to allergic reactions.....

 

[olix00]

I posted this previously on a different thread, but I think it applies here.

I smoked 1PPD for 21 years and quit in 2010 using an e-cig. For the last 6 years, 99% of the juices I have vaped have been vanilla custards from multiple vendors with an occasional French vanilla or bakery juice thrown in to mix it up. Anyways, due to a medical condition unrelated to smoking, (burn pit exposure) I have had EXTENSIVE lung testing over the last year as follows:

1. Pulmonary breathing test. (sitting in a glass box and breathing into a tube for a variety of tests for 45 min)
2. Methacolene challenge. (used to determine if you have asthma)
3. Stationary bike test (30 min on a bike with full O2 face mask, BP cuff, and 15 or so different monitors stuck all around your chest. Resistance on the bike increases over time and a Doctor administers the test.)
4. CT scan of the lungs.
5. MRI of the lungs.
6. High resolution CT of the lungs, x2.
7. VQ scan (like a CT but they inject you with radioactive dye. You also inhale radioactive solution throughout the test and it shows real time video of you breathing and how the dye is absorbed into your lungs).
8. PET Scan (like a CT but you are injected with radioactive dye.) x2.
9. Angiogram
10. High Stress Angiogram (Angiogram performed when your heart rate is forced by medication to hit its maximum rate, 165 BPM. Heart issues can cause breathing issues).

Every single test showed that I had normal lung function with absolutely no signs of damage from smoking, or vaping. My Pulmonologist has said that my lungs have healed nicely from the two decades of smoking and he doesn't see any damage to my lungs related to smoking or vaping. Until someone can produce CONCLUSIVE evidence or do more testing than I have done, that shows that vaping the aforementioned chemicals WILL cause "popcorn lung" or other substantial damage to the lungs, I will not be changing course. There are eleventy billion threads about this topic on the forums here, and everyone seems to be turning this into a "Chicken Little the sky is falling" discussion, when really it isn't.

Also, I would like to ask if you DL or MTL. Thank you.

 

[Lannie]

I can't figure out why you're vaping in the first place. If it worries you, and you're not doing it to quit smoking (you said you've never smoked), then why not just quit vaping? It seems so simple to me. Is there some other reason you feel you have to vape?

 

[bones1274]

Also, I would like to ask if you DL or MTL. Thank you.

I did MTL for the first four years and I have sub-ohm'd DL for the last two years.

 

[Lacit1707]

Yeah it is REAL disease. Only buy liquid from reputable companies. Health first.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

With the much higher exposure in cigarettes, I still haven't seen any cases of Popcorn Lung attributed to smoking (with decades of use). The vaping community has done a pretty good job of regulating itself, with DA being a prime example. Not many juices have it any more and the levels are so low...why worry excessively?

im not going to go through another thread on popcorn lung, so ill just respond to these two in particular....

im curious as to what juice vendors you buy from... do tell please. thanks.