What is diacetyl, acetoin and acetyl propionyl?

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Brobdingnagian

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I am very happy to see this..Looks like I can continue purchasing one of my favorite juices..

Every other vendor should follow suit imo..There simply is no reason not to..

Saw a comment above regarding use and abuse..

Just wondering.. What constitutes "abuse" in vaping? Sub-ohm? high PG/ Low PG? Dripping? Number of mls vaped per day? Genuinely curious.

Good to hear it.

I think "abuse" in regards to vaping is...well, more of an opinion than anything else.

If one wishes to vape 3mg nic and chase clouds all day long, that's their choice. If you want to vape at 24mg or 36mg, that's also their decision.

In my opinion, abuse is spilling e-liquid when trying to fill a tank/dripper and wasting precious nectar of vaping goodness.

Some are concerned regarding sub-Ω, but I use a VAMO v5 with VTC5's (way over-spec, but also safer because of that), so I can't really speak too much about that.

I go through 1.5-3+ mls daily, depending on a number of factors. If anything, the closest I get to abuse is getting e-juice on my skin while drinking coffee and changing out cotton wicks on my PT heads. I have to take a break for a while after that nic soaks in, if I neglect to use Lava soap ASAP.

Nice mixer, btw. :D I have to say, I use a Fletcher Munson curve or Bandaxall (both pre-and post EQ) with already pre-mastered electronic and it really gives it some whomp.

Seems like a lot of folks are going the route of the MOOG these days, though. :p

Anyhow, abuse in vaping is probably leaving your e-liquids where they can be exposed to light. I think that's about the worst thing you can do to them.

I'm a firm believer that keeping e-juice fresh and vaping it fresh is the way to go. "Steeping", as it were, I view as simply giving the juice time to oxidize.

I don't want it to do that, so I vape it when I got it. If I don't like it, I move on to the next one. Rinse, rewick/dryburn, repeat. I never waste juice, though; keeping the remnants of multiple tanks in the "RBA bottle" is a hobby of mine. Never know what that's gonna taste like when I finally vape it.

Sub-Ω may be dangerous with poor quality mods without safety features or batteries, or mods without kicks, VG/PG is entirely preference based. Some people find no difference between 100% PG and 100% VG besides vapor production and viscosity. Others have allergies to one or the other. Coil set-up, wicking material, ect. all go into the "safety" factor, but this is likely a separate issue from abuse, per se.

Interesting question, though. I'll have to ponder on it some more and think about the implications of potentially unsafe vaping habits versus safer ones. Poor equipment/device maintenance, not cleaning threads, overcharging batteries, poor quality chargers.... so many things that can be concerning when piled all into one stack.

At the end of the day, though- I doubt "abuse" would be vaping several ml's of a given liquid in a day. If it's giving the person nic headaches, they may want to step down the nicotine and/or switch to a different/better device as a harm-reduction measure. (if that fails, WTA, NETs and snus are viable options- just my personal experience) After all, we are using PVs/vaping to minimize harm that would otherwise be present from cigarettes. However, if it's what they enjoy and what keeps them off analogs? More power to them. :thumb:

Treat your e-liquid and devices/batteries well, and they will treat you well back; I still have a Vision Spinner from 2012 I lent out because I was content using just my Vamo; I hope the temporary owner treats it as well as I did. (I paper toweled the liquid every time I checked the threads. The person I lent it to.... doesn't really do that.)
 
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IndigoChild

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I should correct myself. It's the guy at BIONICVAPOR.COM - *NOT* ITCVAPES.COM who said that he only buys from manufacturers who claim not to use these chemicals, but is however aware of the issue of dishonesty which is major to both him and his staff as they vape their own products. He was the one that said that they would soon be hiring an independent lab to do some testing. He's nearly a one-man company, too, if you read the bio page for the business. And with that, he's a total vapor junkie - everything from building coils, dripping and juice making to creating, selling and owning a small business. He also claims to frequent these forums anonymously. With all that in mind, I would say that BionicVapor.com is probably the best place you could go in terms of the company caring about the issue. As for an official certified list, there is none yet :( Your best bet is to just email vendors and ask - and at the same time pay attention to their attitudes and such... Things that would indicate whether they're being honest or not, dismissive or brushing you off, and/or statements that indicate how invested they are in caring about the matter. There is one though on BionicVapor.com though that does contain acetoin and acetyl propionyl - Custard Assault. The guy had no issue with letting me know this though... He didn't try to hide anything. He seems very respectable and the flavors from BionicVapor.com are really good.
 

Steamix

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The flavourings used in liquids were and still are primarily designed for the food processing industry.

Our tongue isn't really a gourmet, discerns only five or so very basic 'tastes'. All the other sensory input comes from the receptors located elsewhere. So 'tasting' always includes some inhalation - but certainly not in the concentrations we're using. Check out the percentages recommended for mixing into food. So we do break new ground by inhaling some stuff that may not have been tested for inhalation ( vs. ingestion ) at such levels.

Diacetyl is a clearcut case : Seems to be o.k. for digestive tract, but wreaks havoc in the lungs.

Could well be that other substances may show up on the 'no-no' list eventually.

But taking into account what tobacco products ( with a loooong 'no-no' list chemicals ) are doing to human health, I'm not going to hold my breath :)
 

IndigoChild

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The owner of Bionic is a super nice guy. I buy all my juice from him. Custard assault is one I order on a regular basis. He talks about acetoin in custard assault. I have no issue when someone is 100 % transparent. His liquids are outstanding for the price. Not cheap but far from expensive for the quality.


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Custard Assault is one of my very favorite ADVs, too :D And yeah, it sucks that it has that crap in it, but I don't care so much about it in that the guy who owns that company and created the recipe was totally up front with me about it when I asked him. Have you tried Prophet's Drunken Cheesecake? I really like that one, but I wish it had more of a cheesecake note to it. I've also tried Passion Cruise - it smells good from the outside, but inhaling it felt like breathing in Febreeze or something, lol. I like Dance with Miami. Sometimes it's a little overbearing though. Forget all the other flavors though, that guy has created THE best vanilla custard flavor on the planet and I will continue to vape it regardless of its ingredients. I love BionicVapor.com
 

Coldrake

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Interesting that we have no clue where these juices come from.
Can anyone name 1online vendor that has any photos of their sanitary lab? Do we know if they even have a facility? Do we know who these folks are ? What are their qualifications to be mixologists.
Ahlusion. Check their FAQ.
 

Jake67

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Custard Assault is one of my very favorite ADVs, too :D And yeah, it sucks that it has that crap in it, but I don't care so much about it in that the guy who owns that company and created the recipe was totally up front with me about it when I asked him. Have you tried Prophet's Drunken Cheesecake? I really like that one, but I wish it had more of a cheesecake note to it. I've also tried Passion Cruise - it smells good from the outside, but inhaling it felt like breathing in Febreeze or something, lol. I like Dance with Miami. Sometimes it's a little overbearing though. Forget all the other flavors though, that guy has created THE best vanilla custard flavor on the planet and I will continue to vape it regardless of its ingredients. I love BionicVapor.com

I vape dance with miami/ custard assault/Carribean cruise/ ground breaking from bionic daily.
Jorge is a standup guy that really cares. I feel comfortable with his product.


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Soundhunter

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I am very happy to see this..Looks like I can continue purchasing one of my favorite juices..

Every other vendor should follow suit imo..There simply is no reason not to..

Saw a comment above regarding use and abuse..

Just wondering.. What constitutes "abuse" in vaping? Sub-ohm? high PG/ Low PG? Dripping? Number of mls vaped per day? Genuinely curious.




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Wow..just saw the report in the suicide bunny thread..Wow!


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roosterado

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I have come to believe that the Diacetyl [and its cousins] issue has become the Industries Achilles Heel. The best thing will be if somehow every E Liquid Maker Quickly becomes a member of AEMSA and adheres to their Standards or goes out of business[due to lack of sales]. The E-Liquid Industry needs to Stand United against the use of these compounds or the FDA will use it as an arguement to Ban all Flavors other then Tobacco and Menthol
 
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