David and Goliath: The Canadian Ecig Industry prepares to take on its enemies!

[zer0ith]

There very well could've been other factors. For all we know her 21 year old boyfriend bought it for her. But that is what we had to get to the bottom of.

As you state these problem do happen in everyday life, with everyday products. Minors get served at bars. But that too is also a half truth. Bars also get shut down under the Liquor Act for serving minors.. that's the rest of the story. In our case we have Health Canada, who isn't a friend to us, and has the power to do a lot of damage.

This is the type of situation you defuse through moderation, rather than stating what she already knows, and finds unacceptable. She came to try and find resolution, not confrontation and denial.

Again "this happens in everyday life" so what.. Isn't the position of the ECTA on the matter of underage sales, so the comment was removed.

Fine and dandy that the comment was removed (albeit a valid point to the subject), but why was a member booted out of the "community" (I use that term loosely as to remain civil) for a comment that "someone" deemed that they did not like when it was state that it is a valid point.

The OP was not there seeking guidance to the situation, she was there to inform of said transpirings. Since it was merely a post of information, should not all view points of the subject be taken into consideration and general conversation be allowed? Instead censorship is taking place and not all view points are being heard.

Upon any discussion all view points should be heard and considered. This is the point of open discussion (even if it is taking place in a closed group).

Health Canada would have no jurisdiction on this matter. Much the same as they would have no say in the matter of a bar serving a minor.

The issue at hand is an open discussion on the matter was silenced and not allowed to continue due to someone within the group deciding that they would silence one persons voice. If a group which is trying to stand for the best interests of Canadians starts to silence its members, how can you call yourselves any different than an organization like Health Canada?

The people to which you are representing should have a free and clear voice to state their opinions and contribute to any subject.

 

[wood]

i can see censorship in a forum with rule and guidelines but in serious affairs every opinion should be heard not just a select few , this sounds more like a country club , wake up folks

 

[Can_supplier]

Fine and dandy that the comment was removed (albeit a valid point to the subject), but why was a member booted out of the "community" (I use that term loosely as to remain civil) for a comment that "someone" deemed that they did not like when it was state that it is a valid point.

Consider you view the group and wish to insult everyone in it as ""community" (I use that term loosely as to remain civil)" its not going to be much of a loss for you anyhow. I'm not sure why you are wasting either of our time in this thread, over a group you clearly don't care for. To me that seems like starting trouble for the point of starting trouble.

It is not fair to the majority who support ECTA objectives like not selling to minors, along with respecting and addressing criticism from the non-vaping community rather than telling a mother, concerned for her minor daughter, tough luck.

The ECTA is about is keeping vaping accessible and in the near future completely legal under law. It never was about one person's right to say whatever they feel like, at any cost.

 

[Can_supplier]

i can see censorship in a forum with rule and guidelines but in serious affairs every opinion should be heard not just a select few , this sounds more like a country club , wake up folks

Glad you mentioned that Wood, we just opened up the links, and are offering 18 holes for only $39.99 with cart rental.

So lets see, today's list of "opinions" are;
- rename ECTA, ECTA Golf and Country.
- tell lady concerned over under age daughter's e-cigarette use tough luck

Wouldn't it make more sense to come up with something that actually mattered if it got censored? Might help with this undying effort to discredit the ECTA from the same fine folks, that frequent a certain thread.

"this is a joke", "this is a country club", "who are you to represent me"... Now its my turn, if you have nothing good to say, or suggest, why are you even here?

I certainly apologize to the vapers who have the same goals and interests of the ECTA of seeing a legal vaping environment in Canada. Opposition like this is minor compared to what we face ahead. I assure all of you we have the strength to persevere to meet our objectives.

 

[SloHand]

IMHO the issue of nicotine is of primary concern and should be the focus of any organization that would represent the ‘industry’ in Canada. Nicotine is a controlled substance and is likely to remain that way for some time to come. Control means that there are rules that ‘industry’ must play by and be in the capacity to assure the authorities that they comply. Corner stores across this country have already been entrusted with the sale of nicotine after all, so should this ‘industry’. Compliance with the ‘rules’ (as they are) will ensure our supply of nicotine.

I do not use FaceBook so I’m not entirely versed on this mothers issue, or the comments made on FaceBook, but it strikes me as odd that any comment would be censored. Terse, direct comments are sometimes best left to the public to shame or reprimand, not the operator of the printing press. I would hope that ECTA could survive such comments with the support of the public it is purported to support.

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.” – John Milton

That being said, it is unclear to me that nicotine will be ECTA only focus and there are other concerns I have related to the ‘industry’ that I have some apprehensions with. Not all trade association have been exactly above board when representing industries and choosing instead to establish cartels.

After you’ve all finished rolling your eye’s and uttering “…another conspiracy theory nut job ….” Consider why one vendor, one whose prices seem to have driven most others prices down is being shunned? Everyone is mum about the nature of this public dispute but it’s obvious from within this very thread that an issue exists yet we know little of what it is. There are many trade organizations, especially in industries dominated by only a few major companies that have been accused of being fronts for cartels. I just hope that ECTA is not considering this option behind closed doors. It would destroy the possibility of the legal sales of liquid nicotine forever in this country.

I don't recall seeing what the board composition is but wouldn't it make sense to have a certain percentage that are NOT 'industry' owners and operators?

The activities behind closed doors, the censorship, the motherhood statements and the chastity of some, leaves this organization open to suspicion and mistrust. Every statement uttered here or on other public media is going to be an exercise in damage control. No opposition is “minor”. Deal with it openly, without demeaning your opposition and you’ll make converts. That, IMHO, would result in growth and respect in favor of ECTA and its efforts.

I personally want to see ECTA succeed in providing the legal agreements and framework for the legal sales of liquid nicotine in Canada but I don't want it's members controlling my flavors, my equipment or the manufactures that produce them other than ensuring my safety for all things vaping. Let the market rule products and prices, please just focus on ensuring our safety.

 

[Can_supplier]

After you’ve all finished rolling your eye’s and uttering “…another conspiracy theory nut job ….” Consider why one vendor, one whose prices seem to have driven most others prices down is being shunned?

Thank your for at least being honest about the root of your issue.

As explained before all director positions in the organization are filled for the current term. Out of all the interest from other vendors to be involved in the organization it is a shame that only one feels that are above all others and above all rules. If they don't get their way, despite the rules being the same for everyone, they will attack the organization both personally and through their friends as you have all demonstrated here.

It is a shame, and damaging to the vaping community that you throw around words like "conspiracy" without any proof. Heck you can't even suggest what sort of "conspiracy" is even happening. But then how would we even have time for a conspiracy while we are enjoying the country club lifestyle? So which is it? Or maybe its time to just grow up.

To answer your only relevant question on nicotine. If you took the time to read and understand what we are doing, rather than rushing to toss out untrue and unfounded allegations, you would've read Kat's post in regard to schedule "F". You would also know that at our Toronto and Vancouver meetings we submitted a wide range of e-juice for testing, which includes nicotine level.

By having a wide range of tests on hand, when other vendors join as members these result will also be available for them. As we all use common suppliers, this is one of the huge benefits of membership, and a way we can combine our resources to achieve our objective of protecting the right of vaping under law.

 

[Can_supplier]

I personally want to see ECTA succeed in providing the legal agreements and framework for the legal sales of liquid nicotine in Canada but I don't want it's members controlling my flavors, my equipment or the manufactures that produce them other than ensuring my safety for all things vaping. Let the market rule products and prices, please just focus on ensuring our safety.

Which is exactly our objective.

Trust me we all have much better things to do that create a conspiracy of flavors. As for products and price that fall outside of the scope of the ECTA, demonstrated by the wide range in both products and pricing of founding members.

I hope since we do meet your stated objective, we can move on in a constructive manner. I to am tired of this thread being about fighting fires, that the same people with the same interest come here to start over and over again. It is childish and not productive for anyone.

 

[Can_supplier]

I think my post was an offer to ECTA to elaborate on a legitimate concern regarding the possibility of collusion when trade organizations are created.

Collusion for price fixing and other objectives is illegal, so obviously we are not doing it.

It is offensive to make such allegations in the absence of proof and in light of the very obvious fact that no members prices match. My company's prices have not changed since my involvement in the organization.

This is an asked and answered (many times) question. If you feel otherwise, I suggest you report the facts to the appropriate authorities.

I am asking you to leave if you have nothing more than childish name calling, and offensive unfounded allegations.

 

[classwife]

Straighten it up in here please...you are getting carried away with emotions and insults.

If you can't participate with out name calling...please leave.

 

[mopar]

I agree with classwife let them parade with their lipstick on, everyone now see's ECTA as it has shown it's true colours. The events that transpired over the last 72hours should only be used by people to form their own judgements. There is no need for name calling something or someone when everyone agrees? Lets leave them to deal with their PR nightmare and the consequences of their actions. Isolated and unsupported that well speaks enough in itself.

 

[Can_supplier]

I agree with classwife let them parade with their lipstick on, everyone now see's ECTA as it has shown it's true colours.

Our true colors are transparent. We are out to establish the legality of vaping in Canada through industry self regulation, nothing more, nothing less. Its as simple as that. We will continue to keep vapers informed as to the steps we have taken, as we will continue to allow for their voice to be heard.

We are disappointed that after we have extended a hand to you to join as a member, you have chosen to turn you back on us. Attacking the organization personally and through the regulars of your thread, you have made for a long two days for me. We are sorry you have chosen not to be involved. Unsure of what we ever did short of not making you a director, I think it would be best if we go our separate ways.

We wish you the best of success, and I'm sure much of our work will benefit your business.

 

[freakindahouse]

Well we finally made it back to rainy Wales after over 24 hours of travelling back from Canada. A gruelling trip, but a couple of excellent meetings with ECTA members in both Toronto and Vancouver. We have lots of samples which will be going off to the lab for testing, and have had an opportunity to discuss our moves towards compliance with the founding group.

We shall be putting the last few touches to the website this week, and hopefully it will then be able to go live. A further Skype meeting is scheduled for later this week, after which we should be able to get some more information out to you all.

This is a difficult and delicate operation. It is never easy to try to coordinate a group of dedicated and driven entrepreneurs, all of whom are in competition with each other, and to get them to work together for a common goal, but we have an excellent founding team and I know everyone is looking forward to seeing the team grow as more members of the Canadian industry are able to join.

Inevitably, there will be spats and disagreements. Sometimes, these can get very unpleasant. (The same thing happened with ECITA, since it is such a fundamentally difficult thing to do!) Ultimately, ECTA will press ahead with our programme, and we WILL achieve at least some level of freedom for Canadian vapers, and the industry which serves them. Some will join, others will not; some will be vocal supporters, others will be vocal critics. There is value in ALL of these approaches.

If everyone agreed about everything, and no-one ever voiced a different opinion, what a boring world it would be! If ECTA stands for freedom of choice (which we are striving to ensure it does), then it has to stand up for freedom of speech, too.

My only request would be this: judge us by what we do, so that our actions may speak for themselves. Personally, I know there will be mistakes along the way. I am not perfect, and having met all the founding members of ECTA now, I don't think any one of them would describe themselves as perfect either. (And thank goodness! Our flaws encapsulate our humanity, frequently.)

No, what matters is how we deal with our mistakes, and how we move forward in a productive and useful manner. This is what we are all committed to at ECTA. We shall continue along this road because we believe it is a good way to achieve our desired goals (which have already been detailed earlier in this thread). I know of many other ways of achieving good things for our cause, and we are fortunate as vapers to have such a vibrant community, where many individuals do what they can, and have inspirational ideas, so that the collective effort becomes something very significant. ECTA is just one part of that.

I hope that this thread can be a useful resource for those members of the Canadian vaping community - both inside and outside the industry - and that we can all work together to ensure that Canada has freely available, safe, high quality electronic cigarette products.

Vape proud, my Canadian friends! We're onto something good....

Cheers,

Katherine

 

[Can_supplier]

"Just wanted to let you that I support the Ecta fully and that I am happy that there is a group ready to fight the big guys. I don't really want to post in the thread as there some pretty nasty people. If you ever need support from consumers when you are all set, I will be there for you guys. I am still new to ecig, but I want to see the industry grow and health Canada to accept us."

- private message to me here on ECF, name removed for obvious reasons.

It make me very sad and ashamed at the number vapers who feel they cannot publicly stand up for their rights. Not because they are threatened by government, or any group that may oppose us, but because they feel threatened by those that claim they are part of our community.

I came to the table of ECTA to stand firm for OUR rights. OUR right to be able to vape, what we want, when we want and from who we want.

I pledge to stand firm as I have, along with ECTA, against all forces both internal to the community (very unfortunately) and external, for the very simple objective of all our right to vape without government interference..

 

[martinc]

I vote to boot out can_supplier out of the cyber community.

Who second?

`nough of your BS.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

It appears to me that the OP is welcoming input from all Canadian Vapers

and can_supplier is trying to limit who has a voice.

 

[freakindahouse]

The way I see it is most easily summed up in the words of an ancient poem, the Desiderata:

Go placidly amidst the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.

And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labours and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its shams, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.


That's good enough for me!

Happy vaping, one and all,

Katherine

 

[wood]

Yeah that's why I stopped giving any input long time ago nobody listens and he just likes to argue no matter what you are saying unless it is 4 his purpose he want to hear everyone's opinions but only if you agree with him

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Can_supplier]

I vote to boot out can_supplier out of the cyber community.

Who second?

`nough of your BS.

Thanks for the very nice example to demonstrate the posters point, but you could've saved the effort as we already had it figured.

Not one suggestion, not one point of use, just another bully blowing hot air.

I didn't expect anyone to change. Atrociousness behavior like this is most like supported since birth, its in your raising. I didn't expect to change that with a message.

Your problem is I am here to stand firm for those who choose not to waste their time stuck in grade 3.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

The way I see it is most easily summed up in the words of an ancient poem, the Desiderata:

Go placidly amidst the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.

And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labours and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its shams, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.


That's good enough for me!

Happy vaping, one and all,

Katherine

Wikipedia

"In response to his Government losing its majority in the Canadian federal election, 1972 Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau quoted the Desiderata by reassuring the nation that "the universe is unfolding as it should."

No Doubt about it!

 

[Can_supplier]

Yeah that's why I stopped giving any input long time ago nobody listens and he just likes to argue no matter what you are saying unless it is 4 his purpose he want to hear everyone's opinions but only if you agree with him

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Get real!

Give ONE point you gave us, all the messages are still here.. Just one point that wasn't how ECTA "sucks" or "we don't hear your voice"... We don't hear it because you have said nothing than this same old tire comment over and over and over.

One point, please, I dare you... Right you can't

*** I will take this back because further on in the thread Wood does ***