I'm glad my message stirred you guys up.
Great job of showing what you are really about. Keep going...
Great job of showing what you are really about. Keep going...
David and Goliath: The Canadian Ecig Industry prepares to take on its enemies!
- Thread starter freakindahouse
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Just the like bar. Everyone is welcome in, behave and you are welcome to stay. Be a buffoon, and you get shown the door.
You met the bouncer son.
Prove to us (the community) that you (the group) are not dictating what rules and regulations you want. Instead your taking input from us (the community) and trying to action on them.
Allow me to refocus in light of the trolls...
"Just wanted to let you that I support the Ecta fully and that I am happy that there is a group ready to fight the big guys. I don't really want to post in the thread as there some pretty nasty people. If you ever need support from consumers when you are all set, I will be there for you guys. I am still new to ecig, but I want to see the industry grow and health Canada to accept us."
- private message to me here on ECF, name removed for obvious reasons.
"Just wanted to let you that I support the Ecta fully and that I am happy that there is a group ready to fight the big guys. I don't really want to post in the thread as there some pretty nasty people. If you ever need support from consumers when you are all set, I will be there for you guys. I am still new to ecig, but I want to see the industry grow and health Canada to accept us."
- private message to me here on ECF, name removed for obvious reasons.
Behave, act like a human, stick around and you'll find out. Do that and you'll more than find out, you'll be a contributor and part of the solution.
Its not asking much.
OK, well as the OP, I can confirm that I personally DO welcome input from everyone in the community - whether or not they have something which the majority of that community would regard as valid. Also, I can understand Can_supplier's frustration when this thread appears to be derailed just for the sake of it by posters who appear to want nothing more than to derail it.
It's a difficult path for all of us. I share Can_supplier's frustration when innocent 'newbies' are too scared to post because of the perceived 'nastiness' which can be unleashed sometimes in this medium. However, I am also able to recognise that printed text in forum posts doesn't easily convey humour, or any number of other human emotions with which we temper our discourse. (Sorry for the obviously British spellings - just can't train myself out of them!
)Ultimately, I set up this thread, at the request of the ECTA founding members, because we wanted to be able to share our progress with the ECF portion of the vaping community. At every turn we have faced criticism. I was fully prepared for this, having faced it before when I started ECITA, but I think it is important for everyone in the wider community to recognise what ECTA means to those people who have invested in making it a reality.
This is more than just a Trade Association; it is a means by which each of the founding directors, and eventually the rest of the industry, can strive to protect themselves from unjustified and corrupt attacks - from government policy-makers, enforcement agencies, and/or anyone else. As such, it is something akin to a sapling, which must be nurtured and fed if it is to thrive. In that context, I hope you will all understand if some of the vendors who are trying to ensure that the sapling achieves its full potential take exception to those who wish to take an axe to it before it has had a chance to put down its roots.
Ultimately, we are all human beings - flawed and imperfect, but tenacious and determined, too.
As I said before: judge us by what we DO; words mean very little in the end.
Cheers,
Katherine
Back to you Wood.
The only thing you have accomplished here is this...
"Just wanted to let you that I support the Ecta fully and that I am happy that there is a group ready to fight the big guys. I don't really want to post in the thread as there some pretty nasty people. If you ever need support from consumers when you are all set, I will be there for you guys. I am still new to ecig, but I want to see the industry grow and health Canada to accept us."
- private message to me here on ECF, name removed for obvious reasons.
Great job.. So think everyone might not be better off without that kind of help.
Last edited:
The group of you that come here for nothing more than to start trouble DISGUST me.
Everyone can see through you "I just want my voice heard" crap as you then proceed to say nothing other than to attack this organization and anyone who dares to support it.
GROW UP all of you GROW UP
Everyone can see through you "I just want my voice heard" crap as you then proceed to say nothing other than to attack this organization and anyone who dares to support it.
GROW UP all of you GROW UP
Last edited:
i believe my point was to let all people and vendors participate , i also suggested vapers vote in who is representing us , i can bring up a few more that ive mentioned but as i said u only hear what you want to hear so its not even worth it , u can scroll ahead a bit and maybe you will catch it the second time around , probably not though cause its not spoken in your opinion
and you realize your the one out of me and you being insulting , i have only disagreed with your choice of censorship , and i believe im responding in a fair manner not a bullying manner , you sir are the one who needs to grow up , try listening for a change and responding with a relevant response
As with ECITA (EU) Ltd, ECTA is establishing what the LAW says regarding the regulation of ecigs. Not what the industry says, not what the community says, and certainly not what I say. The law is already written, and merely requires recognition and enforcement. That is all we are seeking to do.
I've said it before and I'll repeat it again: we are NOT attempting to 'make up' a set of rules for the Canadian ecig industry; all we are doing is combing through all the legal statutes (no small task, I can tell you!) to find out what the existing regulatory laws require of vendors, and then applying them to ECTA members.
Once this work is completed (as with ECITA (EU)) it will be possible for consumers to make informed decisions about where to shop; it will also be possible for policy-makers to recognise that there is a recognisably (and undeniably) safe way for ecigs to be sold and used. This can only benefit the community.
At no time have I asked for the support of every individual vaper or vendor in Canada for the work we are doing for ECTA. On the contrary, I fully expected a huge amount of criticism. Personally, I welcome it, although I agree with Can_supplier in wishing it could be a little more focussed. That said, each and every one of you is entitled to his or her opinion, and a forum such as ECF provides a platform for such discussion.
There will be those who choose to post useful comments, and helpful suggestions, and there will be others who have little to say, but who wish to stick their oar in. It is not my place to judge anyone's comments, but I am grateful for them all.
I confess to having a certain frisson of satisfaction when I remember how detractors of ECITA once criticised me, saying that the UK industry would find itself subject to a complete ban by September 2010, no matter what I did or did not do. Suffice to say, here we are now, several months in to 2012, and going from strength to strength, with no ban in sight at all. Now I do not and cannot claim all the credit for that - but I know I did my part. And that's all I'm doing for the Canadian industry.
So criticise me if you will: at least that way, I know I'm doing something!
Happy vaping, one and all,
Katherine
SINCE YOU LIKED IT SO MUCH THE 1st TIME HERE IS THE ENCORE
"Just wanted to let you that I support the Ecta fully and that I am happy that there is a group ready to fight the big guys. I don't really want to post in the thread as there some pretty nasty people. If you ever need support from consumers when you are all set, I will be there for you guys. I am still new to ecig, but I want to see the industry grow and health Canada to accept us."
- private message to me here on ECF, name removed for obvious reasons.
It make me very sad and ashamed at the number vapers who feel they cannot publicly stand up for their rights. Not because they are threatened by government, or any group that may oppose us, but because they feel threatened by those that claim they are part of our community.
I came to the table of ECTA to stand firm for OUR rights. OUR right to be able to vape, what we want, when we want and from who we want.
I pledge to stand firm as I have, along with ECTA, against all forces both internal to the community (very unfortunately) and external, for the very simple objective of all our right to vape without government interference..
"Just wanted to let you that I support the Ecta fully and that I am happy that there is a group ready to fight the big guys. I don't really want to post in the thread as there some pretty nasty people. If you ever need support from consumers when you are all set, I will be there for you guys. I am still new to ecig, but I want to see the industry grow and health Canada to accept us."
- private message to me here on ECF, name removed for obvious reasons.
It make me very sad and ashamed at the number vapers who feel they cannot publicly stand up for their rights. Not because they are threatened by government, or any group that may oppose us, but because they feel threatened by those that claim they are part of our community.
I came to the table of ECTA to stand firm for OUR rights. OUR right to be able to vape, what we want, when we want and from who we want.
I pledge to stand firm as I have, along with ECTA, against all forces both internal to the community (very unfortunately) and external, for the very simple objective of all our right to vape without government interference..
Cost to run the ECTA are around 75K-100K per year. You don't vote in people who will make that commitment. Who will fund it then?
This is an organization, not a government. Same way as you don't just have a general vote of the citizens of Toronto to decide who runs the Toronto Humane Society, where they can pencil in any name they feel like, for example.
If you wish to be a member, you purchase a membership.
If you wish to be a director you work you way up, through hard work and dedication to the organization, to be in a position to be on a ballet.
If you want you voice to be heard, you just speak it, with respect for others, the organization and for yourself.
Nothing revolutionary here, that's how things work.
If you want to form some sort of group of a different structure, it is your right to do so.
ps. if you give me something I can respond to, I will be more than happy to answer, just like this.
Last edited:
As with ECITA (EU) Ltd, ECTA is establishing what the LAW says regarding the regulation of ecigs. Not what the industry says, not what the community says, and certainly not what I say. The law is already written, and merely requires recognition and enforcement. That is all we are seeking to do.
I've said it before and I'll repeat it again: we are NOT attempting to 'make up' a set of rules for the Canadian ecig industry; all we are doing is combing through all the legal statutes (no small task, I can tell you!) to find out what the existing regulatory laws require of vendors, and then applying them to ECTA members.
Once this work is completed (as with ECITA (EU)) it will be possible for consumers to make informed decisions about where to shop; it will also be possible for policy-makers to recognise that there is a recognisably (and undeniably) safe way for ecigs to be sold and used. This can only benefit the community.
At no time have I asked for the support of every individual vaper or vendor in Canada for the work we are doing for ECTA. On the contrary, I fully expected a huge amount of criticism. Personally, I welcome it, although I agree with Can_supplier in wishing it could be a little more focussed. That said, each and every one of you is entitled to his or her opinion, and a forum such as ECF provides a platform for such discussion.
There will be those who choose to post useful comments, and helpful suggestions, and there will be others who have little to say, but who wish to stick their oar in. It is not my place to judge anyone's comments, but I am grateful for them all.
I confess to having a certain frisson of satisfaction when I remember how detractors of ECITA once criticised me, saying that the UK industry would find itself subject to a complete ban by September 2010, no matter what I did or did not do. Suffice to say, here we are now, several months in to 2012, and going from strength to strength, with no ban in sight at all. Now I do not and cannot claim all the credit for that - but I know I did my part. And that's all I'm doing for the Canadian industry.
So criticise me if you will: at least that way, I know I'm doing something!
Happy vaping, one and all,
Katherine
the difference is you respond in a polite grown up manner so its easy to hear your point ....and its not counterproductive ,
Agreed, and all it takes is two.
Although you may think there is less freedom in an organization vs a government there is actually more. Yes for an organization the vote is only for members, where with government every person has a vote, but with government you are stuck with the results of the vote. If you don’t like the board of directors of an organization you are free to leave, start your own, whatever, you don’t have to listen to them. For a government, you are stuck with them, regardless of if they support your views or not.
We are not a government. To maintain public support and respect we must listen to the voices of those WE WANT YOU TO JOIN WITH US. An organization cannot rule anything, they must work for and with the support of everyone.
WE WANT EVERYONE WITH US. But we will not waste our time, and have people harassed by those who only wish to start trouble, I will see to that personally.
With us (we hope you will be), against us, or kicked out the door for misbehaving, its everyone’s choice.
Last edited:
We`ve all seen where you come from and what you made of sir,no need to project on people or divert attention.
Its your past actions that speaks for themselves,I am just another vaper where you,sir,are just your garden variety internet bully wannabe.
If the people you band with for the greater good of the industry have no clue what I am talking about,the futur hold marvelous things for them...
Congrats.
Its your past actions that speaks for themselves,I am just another vaper where you,sir,are just your garden variety internet bully wannabe.
If the people you band with for the greater good of the industry have no clue what I am talking about,the futur hold marvelous things for them...
Congrats.
Show some self dignity and leave, as you have been asked to do, as yet again you clearly have nothing to contribute here.
Last edited:
I hate political arguments -- and this is one, such as it is. They almost always consist mostly of arguments from ignorance, and this is no exception. And in this case I say that not as a pejorative, but simply as its definition: A lack of knowledge. I have nothing at all to do with ECTA. I'm just a vaper and a guy that reviews stuff. But I'm pretty damn passionate about vaping, and by extension anything that works towards making it legitimate and legal here in Canada.
So I just don't understand the hate. I really, really don't.
If the government has its way, E-cigs will either be banned or sold as over-the-counter or prescription products at insane prices. Can we agree on that? You know it would be one or the other of those scenarios. There wouldn't be any middle ground. Health Canada would never on its own allow E-cigs and liquid with nicotine to be sold here unless it was under their complete control.
We need an organisation to fight for vaper's rights. Can we agree on that? Never mind who or how. Can we just agree that one is needed, and that without one we'd be at the government's mercy? (See point 1 above.)
ECTA is an organisation whose primary mission is to fight for vaper's rights. Can we agree on that? Never mind your personal feelings to one or more of its members, and forget about whatever sinister machinations you've dreamed up for them to engage in. ECTA's primary goal, first and foremost, above all else and ignoring everything but this one simple point, is to bring the fight to Health Canada in a battle to let us get our hardware and juice without having to worry about border siezures or vendors getting shut down. Period.
Anything that goes beyond that goal is an unknown quantity. I don't know a single thing about the specifics of what ECTA is doing to achieve that primary goal, nor what plans they have beyond that point -- and neither do you. The only people who do are the board of directors and those that are directly assisting in getting this ship built and berthed. Fostering hate for the organisation at this point is ridiculous. There is no argument you can make at this point that isn't a naked strawman. The only point anyone seems to glom on to is the opacity of ECTA's internal goings-on, and that's not really argument you can hang a hat on. Even a tiny hat. Like a leprechaun's hat. Not even a leprechaun's hat.
So really, all of the arguments boil down to textbook logical fallacies: "I hate that you are being secretive, you must be up to no good;" and "You suck, and you are an ECTA member, therefore ECTA must suck;" "You aren't letting more members join, therefore it must be an Old Boys Club." Never mind that the secrecy is temporary and necessary, that whether or not you like one or more of the members is irrelevant to the organisation's mission, and that they already have the maximum number of board members but all vendors and manufacturers will be allowed to join once ECTA goes "live." Apparently this information is inconvenient to the purpose of stirring the pot.
All I want is to see vaping legitimized in Canada. To see vendors able to open up shop, carry good products, and not worry about being shut down. To order products from the US if I want and not worry about it getting turned back at the border, not having to request that vendors obfuscate the customs form so it has a better chance of slipping north of the border unmolested.
That's all. I. Want.
ECTA can give me that.
If you don't think it can, come up with something better. Offer suggestions for ways they can accomplish that goal that they apparently aren't doing now. Say something constructive. If you think they aren't listening, it might be because you are doing the same.
If you haven't anything constructive to offer, or questions to ask -- if you aren't here to help or learn, then why the hell did you click on this thread?
So I just don't understand the hate. I really, really don't.
If the government has its way, E-cigs will either be banned or sold as over-the-counter or prescription products at insane prices. Can we agree on that? You know it would be one or the other of those scenarios. There wouldn't be any middle ground. Health Canada would never on its own allow E-cigs and liquid with nicotine to be sold here unless it was under their complete control.
We need an organisation to fight for vaper's rights. Can we agree on that? Never mind who or how. Can we just agree that one is needed, and that without one we'd be at the government's mercy? (See point 1 above.)
ECTA is an organisation whose primary mission is to fight for vaper's rights. Can we agree on that? Never mind your personal feelings to one or more of its members, and forget about whatever sinister machinations you've dreamed up for them to engage in. ECTA's primary goal, first and foremost, above all else and ignoring everything but this one simple point, is to bring the fight to Health Canada in a battle to let us get our hardware and juice without having to worry about border siezures or vendors getting shut down. Period.
Anything that goes beyond that goal is an unknown quantity. I don't know a single thing about the specifics of what ECTA is doing to achieve that primary goal, nor what plans they have beyond that point -- and neither do you. The only people who do are the board of directors and those that are directly assisting in getting this ship built and berthed. Fostering hate for the organisation at this point is ridiculous. There is no argument you can make at this point that isn't a naked strawman. The only point anyone seems to glom on to is the opacity of ECTA's internal goings-on, and that's not really argument you can hang a hat on. Even a tiny hat. Like a leprechaun's hat. Not even a leprechaun's hat.
So really, all of the arguments boil down to textbook logical fallacies: "I hate that you are being secretive, you must be up to no good;" and "You suck, and you are an ECTA member, therefore ECTA must suck;" "You aren't letting more members join, therefore it must be an Old Boys Club." Never mind that the secrecy is temporary and necessary, that whether or not you like one or more of the members is irrelevant to the organisation's mission, and that they already have the maximum number of board members but all vendors and manufacturers will be allowed to join once ECTA goes "live." Apparently this information is inconvenient to the purpose of stirring the pot.
All I want is to see vaping legitimized in Canada. To see vendors able to open up shop, carry good products, and not worry about being shut down. To order products from the US if I want and not worry about it getting turned back at the border, not having to request that vendors obfuscate the customs form so it has a better chance of slipping north of the border unmolested.
That's all. I. Want.
ECTA can give me that.
If you don't think it can, come up with something better. Offer suggestions for ways they can accomplish that goal that they apparently aren't doing now. Say something constructive. If you think they aren't listening, it might be because you are doing the same.
If you haven't anything constructive to offer, or questions to ask -- if you aren't here to help or learn, then why the hell did you click on this thread?
OK I am going to close this thread for a short time to review it. People in the Canada Forum should already have an idea what that means.
I am going to be very blunt here - the nonsense needs to stop or the thread will just stay locked if folks can't be civil then they'll just have to find something else to discuss.
When I reopen this thread there are some points that probably should be addressed by Katherine or someone who can answer for ECTA, answering a few questions directly would probably cut down on a lot of the shenanigans. From what I am seeing there is a lot of misunderstanding going on here.
1. Disclosure. While I can understand the ECTA Board of Directors wanting to stay anonymous due to the current situation in Canada, It is very apparent that failing to disclose the identity of the board creates a credibility issue. People want to know who is in charge. CAASA plainly discloses their board of directors and provides contact information. ECITA at least discloses their membership. Secret organizations are very often met with large doses of mistrust.
2. Perception of legitimacy. In the beginning ECTA made some bad moves that may have cast doubt on the real purpose of ECTA. Publishing your "manifesto" openly and cleaning up any left over misconceptions will go a long way to stopping the shenanigans in this thread.
I am going to be very blunt here - the nonsense needs to stop or the thread will just stay locked if folks can't be civil then they'll just have to find something else to discuss.
When I reopen this thread there are some points that probably should be addressed by Katherine or someone who can answer for ECTA, answering a few questions directly would probably cut down on a lot of the shenanigans. From what I am seeing there is a lot of misunderstanding going on here.
1. Disclosure. While I can understand the ECTA Board of Directors wanting to stay anonymous due to the current situation in Canada, It is very apparent that failing to disclose the identity of the board creates a credibility issue. People want to know who is in charge. CAASA plainly discloses their board of directors and provides contact information. ECITA at least discloses their membership. Secret organizations are very often met with large doses of mistrust.
2. Perception of legitimacy. In the beginning ECTA made some bad moves that may have cast doubt on the real purpose of ECTA. Publishing your "manifesto" openly and cleaning up any left over misconceptions will go a long way to stopping the shenanigans in this thread.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
