Diacetyl Questions...

[Ms. Creant]

Hey all,

I have a few Q's about diacetyl.

I would like to know why or how it seems to be associated with Chinese nicotine. Is there something that happens in the process of making nicotine that includes diacetyl in the solution?

I have been doing some reading and found out a couple of things; Diacetyl is a byproduct of fermentation - Are tobacco leaves fermented and that is how diacetyl gets into the extract?

Also, diacetyl is commonly used in making butter/buttery/butterscotch flavours so could it be that some flavourings containing diacetyl have been used and this has somehow transmuted into giving Chinese nicotine a bad rap?

Diacetyl, when vaporized, can cause a very rare incurable lung disease that can only be 'fixed' via lung transplant.

Thanks for any info.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

I have never ever ordered any juices that contain Diacetyl because of the health issues as you mentioned. If the vendor does not state they are not using Diacetyl feel free to contact them and ask the question. For example JUGHEADS.co We've Got the Vapors ! states their juices have no diacetyl:
Jugheads
ALL Vendors should be openly honest about this chemical.
Diacetyl can cause Popcorn Lung/ Margarine Lung and is very common in the foods we eat. Apparently it is only dangerous if inhaled and there was one study done., The rats died but they stated it was inconclusive:
Chemical Sampling Information - Diacetyl
More info:
Margarine Lung | Popular Science
What is Popcorn Lung?
Flavorart has some porducts with diacetyl but they are clearly labeled:
Diacetile - Flavourart. La sartoria degli aromi

More info:
http://www.perfumersapprentice.com/flavorsworkshop/custard.html

 

[Switched]

Hey all,

I have a few Q's about diacetyl.

I would like to know why or how it seems to be associated with Chinese nicotine. Is there something that happens in the process of making nicotine that includes diacetyl in the solution?

I have been doing some reading and found out a couple of things; Diacetyl is a byproduct of fermentation - Are tobacco leaves fermented and that is how diacetyl gets into the extract?

Also, diacetyl is commonly used in making butter/buttery/butterscotch flavours so could it be that some flavourings containing diacetyl have been used and this has somehow transmuted into giving Chinese nicotine a bad rap?

Diacetyl, when vaporized, can cause a very rare incurable lung disease that can only be 'fixed' via lung transplant.

Thanks for any info.

I would like your reference of the bold text.

 

[markfm]

It has nothing to do with Chinese nicotine base, everything to do with flavorings.

I don't recall ever hearing of diacetyl in Chinese eliquid. Doesn't mean it cannot exist, it depends on the flavorings.

Caramel, butterscotch, and other flavorings with an active butter or custard element are generally the ones to watch for.

Some flavor sources are working hard to remove diacetyl, but frankly I'm curious about how they come up with something in those flavors that isn't at least based on the same chemical family as diacetyl.

After over 35 years of smoking, I primarily vape a simple blend that I'm confident its diacetyl free, and won't lose sleep over limited use of the aforementioned flavors.

Also, please note that organic flavorings are not necessarily diacetyl free, just that they should not have any extra diacetyl added to them to "punch up" the flavor.

 

[sidetrack]

OP. Diacetyl is from the flavoring in the ejuice not the nicotine, it is a by product of a fermentation process......ie. buttery flavors, milk flavors, beer and wine are the most common. They are not hazardous to you when you eat them it is however harmfull if inhaled thus not safe to vape.

 

[karcemi]

I thought all e-juices no longer contain diacetyl. Can someone please clarify this?

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

It's an additive in analogs along with the other 4000? chemicals
Determination of toxic carbonyl compounds in... [Environ Toxicol. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

Acetoin and diacetyl are found in tobacco smoke,

1. Is the ingredient diacetyl and diethylene glycol (DEG) used in your liquids?
Answer:
No. There is not diacetyl and diethylene glycol in our liquids Specifically, the concern is with Diacetyl. Diacetyl is sometimes used to add a buttery flavor to foods or e-liquids, but has been proven to cause health problems in some cases.
http://www.yndekang.com/FAQ.asp

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

I thought all e-juices no longer contain diacetyl. Can someone please clarify this?

Even some of the more popular flavor manufacturers admit to having it in SOME flavors and is an additive in analogs. If unsure ask the Vendor.

 

[Ms. Creant]

Maybe it is just me reading too much in between the lines, but it is not uncommon to see statements like 'our juices do not contain any chinese nicotine or diacetyl' on e-cig vendor web pages.

I would like your reference of the bold text.

 

[markfm]

Yes, those are two separate things. The great majority of nicotine comes from china, even if bought from an american supplier they normally start from high concentration chinese nicotine. Some people are really big on buy america, even though I haven't heard of any significant issues with chinese nicotine. (and I don't know if any of the batteries in pvs are really american).
The diacetyl part of the statement is relative to the flavorings used, not the nicotine.

 

[Switched]

Maybe it is just me reading too much in between the lines, but it is not uncommon to see statements like 'our juices do not contain any chinese nicotine or diacetyl' on e-cig vendor web pages.

... and a good portion of those vendors are mis-representing/marketing their product. The majority of nicotine comes from either China or India. Just because it is bought in the States does not mean it is actually mfr there.

ETA: yes we should be concerned with diacetyl. OTOH cooks are exposed to greater concentrations just by cooking with butter and they breath it in daily.

 

[karcemi]

Even some of the more popular flavor manufacturers admit to having it in SOME flavors and is an additive in analogs. If unsure ask the Vendor.

oThanks, Vapoor eyes er!

 

[kanadiankat]

Maybe it is just me reading too much in between the lines, but it is not uncommon to see statements like 'our juices do not contain any chinese nicotine or diacetyl' on e-cig vendor web pages.

It's not a well understood statement - but has justification.

The primary source (and only one that I'm aware of) for Nicotine Sulphate is from the stems of the BEEDI tobacco plant - grown in India. This has the highest ratio of nicotine - of all tobacco varieties.

Nicotine sulphate from BEEDI stems is what's used for NRT's* (patches, gum, Nhaler), pharmaceuticals, laboratory work, organic pesticides and eliquid.

How that extract is handled by different nations though - is the "big question" for eliquid. I think there is a consensus that the standards in the US and other developed nations - for shipping, storage, handling, bottling, distribution etc - is likely a high standard due to the fact that pharmaceuticals and medical research would require it. That may or may not be correct.

Is there a different standard in China?

Do the main eliquid mass-manufacturers maintain higher standards?

Is the quality of the nicotine affected by how it's handled post-manufacter and pre-distribution?

If so at what level?

What are the regulations that nicotine sulphate handlers abide by?

These are the unanswered questions.

It seems to be more an issue of "trust the devil I think might be operating with high standards instead of the devil I only hope has high standards".

(*Nicotine sulphate is combined with methacrylic acid polymer & divinylbenzene to create nicotine polacrilex for commercial use in NRT's)

The Diaceytle question is an entirely different one and not related to the origin of the nicotine. That's a flavor extract approved for human consumption - but later discovered to cause severe, untreatable respiratory disease when it's fumes are inhaled.

Current Stats:

Death, injury or illness caused from Chinese nicotine sulphate - 0
Death injury or illness caused from North American nicotine sulphate - 0
Death, injury or illness caused from Diaceytle - 8

Diaceytle is approved by Health Canada
nicotine sulphate in eliquid is not

 

[Switched]

*SNIP
Current Stats:

Death, injury or illness caused from Chinese nicotine sulphate - 0
Death injury or illness caused from North American nicotine sulphate - 0
Death, injury or illness caused from Diaceytle - 8

Diaceytle is approved by Health Canada
nicotine sulphate in eliquid is not

Now that is terribly interesting. Thanks for sharing the data with us.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

the main concern came from workers in factories where products laced with diacetyl were produced. It was the vapor from the production of these products that caused all the ruskus. In other words they were exposed to large quantities of diacetyl laced vapor all day long. In 2009 the U.S. and/ or certain states were considering passing legislation strictly controlling diacetyl in the workplace and in some foods. Microwave popcorn producers promised action A's diacetyl is an ingredient in microwave popcorn. The first non diacetyl microwave popcorn was released in Nov. 2011.

 

[mavrik]

the main concern came from workers in factories where products laced with diacetyl were produced. It was the vapor from the production of these products that caused all the ruskus. In other words they were exposed to large quantities of diacetyl laced vapor all day long. In 2009 the U.S. and/ or certain states were considering passing legislation strictly controlling diacetyl in the workplace and in some foods. Microwave popcorn producers promised action A's diacetyl is an ingredient in microwave popcorn. The first non diacetyl microwave popcorn was released in Nov. 2011.

Keep up the great work HC!! lol

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

Keep up the great work HC!! lol

LOL Food for thought if anyone uses microwave popcorn. Have seconds thoughts about immediately smelling the vapors when first taken out of the microwave IMO. Myself I prefer/ use the regular non microwave stuff.