Inhaling Flavouring Chemicals

[Spikey]

How come every time I start to feel comforable with the safety of vaping someone's gotta post some information to get me all paranoid again????

I for one do no trust anonymous Chinese E-juice manfacturers... The Chinese can't even get tooth paste right and you don't even inhale that.... I really love vaping but now I don't know what to do. The whole point of vaping is to be healthier... right now I just feel like I'm playing roulette with a loaded vaporizer. What the hell man.... not trying to become a statistic from this........

I love russian roulette! Is your avatar from boondock saints? If so.. what are you afraid of? LOL!

It is my understanding that the nicotine and PG/VG are obviously purchased, and not "produced" by JC. It is also not final mixed at their location but rather at a controlled lab based on their "own" specific formula/recipe calculations.

VapeOn,
Greg

I get the same feeling Greg. I received a response from them today that makes me wonder what parts of their liquid is imported and what part is mixed here? Hmmm...

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I get the same feeling Greg. I received a response from them today that makes me wonder what parts of their liquid is imported and what part is mixed here? Hmmm...

Spikey--I do not like that response you got in the least--that JC is getting more and more seedier as time goes by---Sun

 

[Spikey]

Below is the email I received (and below that.. the email I sent them)... do you think maybe they misunderstood what I said and thought I was asking them to change the MG or flavor in the bottles I was ordering? Maybe there was just a miscommunication.

Hell Spike,



You can go ahead and order from Amazon, but in the comment section, please BE SURE to add, “XXXXXXXXX, please change my order to Non PG.” Also, there is no way for us to change the mgs or adjust our batches for flavor/mgs. Hope this information helps.



Johnson Creek Original Smoke Juice

Customer Support Team

Visit us on the web: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ety-e-smoking/www.johnsoncreeksmokejuice..com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: info@johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com [mailto:info@johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:11 AM
To: support@johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com
Subject: Contact Form Submission



Sample Text Field1
Spike

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BXXXXXX

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Mstress47@aol.com

Select Your Topic
General Question

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A few things... -I want to order my next order from amazon.com (I have a gift certificate I want to use) and it lists all as PG. If I order can I change them to NON-PG and can I change the MG? -I am Spikey on e-cigarette-forum.com and I spend a lot of time defending weak flavors from you guys. A few of them are really good.. but the others are a bit weak. When more flavor gets added to the VG liquid does it not taste right? Can the mixture be adjusted to increase flavor a little? I think it will help a lot. Some people REALLY like the flavors... but find them too weak. -Thanks for the smokejuice t-shirt in my last order... I wore it last week to a sleepover party and it made a sale for you guys I really like your company and I appreciate what you guys do... I even defend (and would use.. but I have not had the problem yet) the green juice!

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Below is the email I received (and below that.. the email I sent them)... do you think maybe they misunderstood what I said and thought I was asking them to change the MG or flavor in the bottles I was ordering? Maybe there was just a miscommunication.

Hell Spike,



You can go ahead and order from Amazon, but in the comment section, please BE SURE to add, “XXXXXXXXX, please change my order to Non PG.” Also, there is no way for us to change the mgs or adjust our batches for flavor/mgs. Hope this information helps.



Johnson Creek Original Smoke Juice

Customer Support Team

Visit us on the web: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ety-e-smoking/www.johnsoncreeksmokejuice..com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: info@johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com [mailto:info@johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:11 AM
To: support@johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com
Subject: Contact Form Submission



Sample Text Field1
Spike

Sample Text Field2
BXXXXXX

Sample Text Field3
Mstress47@aol.com

Select Your Topic
General Question

Sample Text Area
A few things... -I want to order my next order from amazon.com (I have a gift certificate I want to use) and it lists all as PG. If I order can I change them to NON-PG and can I change the MG? -I am Spikey on e-cigarette-forum.com and I spend a lot of time defending weak flavors from you guys. A few of them are really good.. but the others are a bit weak. When more flavor gets added to the VG liquid does it not taste right? Can the mixture be adjusted to increase flavor a little? I think it will help a lot. Some people REALLY like the flavors... but find them too weak. -Thanks for the smokejuice t-shirt in my last order... I wore it last week to a sleepover party and it made a sale for you guys I really like your company and I appreciate what you guys do... I even defend (and would use.. but I have not had the problem yet) the green juice!

Spikey--no communication problems there at all. All you did was make some clear cut questions and were rebuffed in short order--With all due respect to JC--they can go take a hike---Sun

 

[Spikey]

I am so glad JuicyLiquid.com is almost up.. I need another source for VG. Too much effort to make my own and I am too klutzy to be messing with liquids.

 

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

I love russian roulette! Is your avatar from boondock saints? If so.. what are you afraid of? LOL!

no doubt ...boondock saints is my ****....

 

[Kate]

Bickfords still haven't told me which flavours contain diacetyl.

Has anyone got any news about Johnson Creek and whether they are using diacetyl flavours?

 

[lewnworx]

And on a side note (as I don't have enough posts to do my own topic yet):

I noticed that SOME (not all) of the Lorann flavorings have an additional line on the side of the bottle's warnings:

"Do not allow mucous membranes to come into contact with this product" (or something like that).

I don't know about you folks, but I think "lungs" pretty much fall into the mucous membranes category, so I didn't buy any of the flavors that had that one the bottle.

The ones I clearly remember as having it were:

Wintergreen (crap, I really like that flavor)
Spearmint
and one of the Cinnamon ones.

Might want to check your flavors to see if that's there.

 

[gtmason]

The chemical that came to my attention is diacetyl. It gives a buttery taste to food and also "occurs naturally in alcoholic beverages". Diacetyl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Workers in some food factories have been diagnosed with lung disease because of diacetyl.

"The main respiratory symptoms experienced by workers affected by fixed airways obstruction include cough (usually without phlegm) and shortness of breath on exertion. These symptoms typically do not improve when the worker goes home at the end of the workday or on weekends or vacations. The severity of the lung symptoms can range from only a mild cough to severe cough and shortness of breath on exertion. Usually these symptoms are gradual in onset and progressive, but severe symptoms can occur suddenly. Some workers may experience fever, night sweats, and weight loss. Before arriving at a final diagnosis, doctors of affected workers initially thought that the symptoms might be due to asthma, chronic bronchitis, emphysema, pneumonia, or smoking. Severe cases may not respond to medical treatment. Affected workers generally notice a gradual reduction or cessation of cough years after they are no longer exposed to flavoring vapors, but shortness of breath on exertion persists. Several with very severe disease were placed on lung transplant waiting lists. Workers exposed to flavorings may also experience eye, nose, throat, and skin irritation. In some cases, chemical eye burns have required medical treatment." NIOSH - Preventing Lung Disease in Workers Who Use or Make Flavorings - Publication No. 2004 - 110

So if you can, check what is in your eliquid, diacetyl is definately a baddie. Watch out for symptoms and be aware that there might be other chemicals that cause similar reactions.

I've emailed LorAnn about their flavourings and they say they do not use diacetyl in any of them.

FYI I emailed Best E Cig about diacetyl before I placed my first eliquid order, and their reply was:

"
Dear Greg M:

Thank you very much for interesting in our products and contacting us.

Our e-liquid do not contain Diacetyl, if you want to know its INGREDIENTS,

you can see here: bestecig.com/help.asp?id=8

Best Regards,

Beci chen

Xiamen BestEcig Electronic Technology Co., Ltd.
ADD: No.289 wengjiao Rd. 4nd Tech. Building, haicang, xiamen, china
"

 

[Kate]

That's good to know.

Anyone looking into ingredient lists might want to know that there are other names for diacetyl:

Diacetyl
Biacetyl
Dimethyl Diketone
2,3-Diketobutane

 

[jbbishop]

Why Kate! You're home! And welcome back. Of course it's good to see you on here again. Like many, you were among the first that I encountered always helpful to point out information of important concern to newbees and always mindful of issues that the uninformed need to be concerned about.

While you were on vacation I just wanted to point out that it was determined that Glycerin USP is NOT NECESSARILY safe as you may have pointed out in some older posts... It seems that there is in fact a difference between Glycerin USP (apparently Pharmaceutical Grade) and Food Grade Glycerin USP. It gets pretty complicated. There is glycerin from animal sources and glycerin from vegetable sources and an account of synthetic glycerin which may be crude derived from biodeisel production that is technical grade. There is glycerin that is Kosher (requires a letter from RABBI-BU and kosher transportation certificate). There is glycerin that is 100% pure and glycerine that is 99.9% and 99.7% and 99.5% (considered technical grade) and less pure forms. According to the best we know at this time, glycerin USP which may or may not contain a label warning for external use is often found in the phamacy section in many local shopping markets. A source says if the label says for external use only it should not be used for these purposes. Not everyone has had problems with glycerin USP but there have been reports of people who have suffered extreme nausea from it even if the label does not state for external use. It appears that manufacturers may variously formulate these products from vegetable or synthetic sources (which may be a misnomer because synthetic implies technical grade and would not qualify as USP) but to the extent this explanation makes sense it seems to account for the issues many have had of using glycerin USP and suffering from undesirable symptoms including severe nausea. We can no longer say that if it says USP it is safe for us to use. The distinction, although quite difficult to document is that only FOOD GRADE glycerine which may or may not say USP is safe to use. It is likely that FOOD GRADE glycerine may be manufactured from either vegetable or animal sources and most are advising that the best solution is to use only 100% Vegetable Glycerin which is certain to be FOOD GRADE, and such products, often found in Health Food Stores is usually tested to insure they are free of all contaminants. While I don't think we need to get our glycerin approved by a Rabbi, I do think it important to address any previous advice posted in the forms that might mislead people in this regard. Currently, we surmise that Glycerin found at brew shops, craft stores, and health food stores is implicitly FOOD GRADE and therefore safe. This is the only kind we should use or recommend. It should be discouraged to purchase or use glycerine that is found in the pharmacy section of any grocery store often labeled glycerin USP. It shouldn't be necessary to order it online to make sure we get the right stuff, only that we get it from the right place... this turns out to be a specialty store as described and other sources than I mentioned may also be suitable sources.

Personally, I think we can relax a little with regard to concerns about diacetyl. Diacetyl is an ARTIFICIAL flavoring agent and is ONLY used as BUTTER FLAVORING. It is harmless when consumed and not inhaled. It is never going to find its way into any product that is not explicitly labeled "buttery" flavored and intended for consumption, or formulated in bakery and pastry products that have no possible means of contributing to inhalation. In terms of flavor concentrates, the only conceivable variety I could envision it being used in is one that said "Buttery Flavor." Personally, I am not aware of any, and if it did exist it would likely be in a pure form because outside of commercial uses in prepared foods the only form in which buttery flavoring is ever sold is as pure buttery flavoring. Therefore, the only ones we should be on the lookout for are any that indicate butter or buttery in the name and investigate those. Diacetyl will never be found as a component in a pure extract that is any other flavor than "buttery."

The only way any consumers are likely to inhale diacetyl, or have ever been known to inhale it (in any significant quantity) is through the vapor produced by popping microwave popcorn or by using butter flavored cooking spray. There is only one single case in the whole wide world of a person who suffered lung damage as a result of it and who did not work in a manufacturing plant that made microwave popcorn. He was an individual who religiously ate three bags of microwave popcorn every single day for 10 years. Yes there are considerable concerns about it as one of the flavoring chemicals that might possibly be inhaled. The guy had to have his lungs replaced.

But instead of hopelessly hunting for diacetyl in every flavoring we try, I think we should be concerned about it and warn about this only in the context of any flavoring that indicated it was "buttery" and I don't think e-smokers are going to want to use any of it if they found some anyway. The only possible related flavors that come to mind we might encounter are butter rum and butterscotch and by an extension possibly caramel. I rather think however that if we investigate these we would 'likely' find that even these 'probably' don't contain diacetyl. I could be mistaken. This would be a great research project to undertake. Find out for me if any of the brands we're discussing that have flavors of butter rum, butterscotch or caramel may have diacetyl in them. If they do not I think we can even be less concerned.

 

[Kate]

Hi Bishop, it's good to be back

Thanks very much for your analysis, that certainly makes things clearer.

 

[jbbishop]

Let's try to think about flavors with butter in them that have nothing to do with a certain Utah politician! My suggested list may be far from comlete.

 

[jbbishop]

Well you know everybody missed ya! Not just me.

 

[jonny123456]

i ordered a ruyan Jazz Classic today - Regular Flavor does it contain the chemical you mentioned?

 

[Kate]

Hi Jonny. Ruyan have had their formula tested and changed for safety. If any eliquid is safest it's probably genuine Ruyan, I personally wouldn't spend a minute worrying about theirs.

http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

 

[LuckyCharm]

I received my DSE801 straight from Ruyan yesterday, and I was pretty impressed. Order was complete and correct and arrived promptly; all components pre-tested; batteries pre-charged. I was eager to try it out and compare to my NJOY NCIG, which is the only other model I'd tried so far. But the cartridges that came in the starter kit tasted awful, so I switched from the high-nic to low to finally none. No help. I figured maybe it was just that I'd gotten used to the strawberry and vanilla cartridges I ordered from NJOY, so I put one of those in there (yes, it seems to fit fine). But it still feels like I can kinda taste that nasty, nasty flavor from the originals. Is it all in my mind?

Also, neither of these unit's manuals mention priming the atomizer with liquid, or using liquid at all. I'd like to eventually cut my costs by using liquid, but I'm not sure how to start. I'll do a forum search for any how-to's, but I just thought I'd toss that in there in case anybody has a suggestion for how to improve this taste.

Thanks,

~~Cheryl

 

[Caesarea]

Wonder if JBB would clarify: Is 100% Glycerol, sold as cough medecine base in Boots no good to vape??

Thanks in advance

 

[Kate]

Ruyan don't sell eliquid Cheryl, just cartridges and only in two flavours - tobacco and menthol. People sometimes get mixed up because Heaven Gifts call themselves RuyanDirect and imply they only sell Ruyan products. The DSE801 is not a Ruyan product either. Another thing that gets people mixed up is the eliquid called RY4, the RY might (I don't know) mean ruyan but it's not made by Ruyan.

 

[LuckyCharm]

Ruyan don't sell eliquid Cheryl, just cartridges and only in two flavours - tobacco and menthol.

Maybe I was unclear -- I meant the cartridges that came in the starter kit.

People sometimes get mixed up because Heaven Gifts call themselves RuyanDirect and imply they only sell Ruyan products.

Really? I thought I was buying from Ruyan! Hmmm..... I had really wanted to try the one that got this whole movement started....

The DSE801 is not a Ruyan product either.

It gets more and more confusing.... But I've seen some pretty positive comments on this model here, so I was anxious to get it and try it out. Besides the color, I see little difference between this device and my NCIG, which overall I'm pretty satisfied with, although I wouldn't mind a little more vapor and throat hit. Would experimenting with liquid help with that?

~~Cheryl