Welcome, I have question.. Do you care about these "stuffs"? Is it can really cause popcorn lung if I vape so much daily?
Diatecyl, acetoin and acetylpropionyl
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Did you worry about them when you smoked?
Can you find any actual proof that any of these chemicals actually caused the extremely rare few cases of "popcorn lung"?
breathing clean air.... heres what is in it
nitrogen
nitrogendioxide
nitrous oxide
sulfer dioxide
methane
propane
butane
xenon
argon
helium
hydrogen
hydrogen sulfide
oxygen
neon
chlorine
radon
carbon dioxide
carbon monoxide
and thats just a minor portion of the list..... and not even considering the solids that are suspended in it like pollen, dust, dust mites... yup you are breathing in living beasties... amoungst billions of air borne bacteria and virus...
nitrogen
nitrogendioxide
nitrous oxide
sulfer dioxide
methane
propane
butane
xenon
argon
helium
hydrogen
hydrogen sulfide
oxygen
neon
chlorine
radon
carbon dioxide
carbon monoxide
and thats just a minor portion of the list..... and not even considering the solids that are suspended in it like pollen, dust, dust mites... yup you are breathing in living beasties... amoungst billions of air borne bacteria and virus...
Yes i do and i take every precaution to stay on top of things such as this. But then i look at cigs and what is it the last i checked over a 1,000 carcinogen agents actually i think it's much much higher. I look at it like this, if that's all i have to worry about then i am light years away from the harms cigs cause. Yes, let's learn and take precautions, but let's not go back to smoking either....even though vaping does have a few...notice a few concerns....what's the alternative here?? which do you think presents the most concerns. isn't that what it comes down to. No one here is saying vaping is 100% safe, but it's much safer then smoking so pick you choice and concern wisely.
Check my blog, I have an extensive section about this sort of stuff.
But short answer, similar to what others already stated, cigarettes and multiple other sources that you're exposed to daily, have more of these bad things (a lot more) and no one has ever had health symptoms from these chemicals because of smoking, even the heavy chain smoking crowd.
But short answer, similar to what others already stated, cigarettes and multiple other sources that you're exposed to daily, have more of these bad things (a lot more) and no one has ever had health symptoms from these chemicals because of smoking, even the heavy chain smoking crowd.
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about three years ago i switched to a vape shop that explicitly stated on their website that their juices didn't contain any of those ingredients. i've recently noticed though that they don't state that anymore, so i'm not sure what to make of that. should i be concerned or are those ingredients just unavoidable anymore?
My guess is that the air in DC likely has more of all of it than any of your juices (IF they even do), but that's purely supposition on my part.
And my guess is that practically no vape shop can be 100% certain of what their liquids contain. Even if they mix their own, there is some possibility that at least one of their flavorings contain some small percentage diacetyl. They really can't take responsibility for what they can't control.
Well, I smoked a PAD+ of tobacco cigarettes for 46 years. Obviously, I'm not smart enough to care, so I don't... 
I too had concerns about vaping and "popcorn lung" etc. Did a fair amount of research before I started vaping and my conclusion is with the vaping is 95% less harmful than cigarette smoking camp.
Day 10 vaping day 10 without a cigarette and not looking back! Lungs so much better already.
Day 10 vaping day 10 without a cigarette and not looking back! Lungs so much better already.
I too had concerns about vaping and "popcorn lung" etc. Did a fair amount of research before I started vaping and my conclusion is with the vaping is 95% less harmful than cigarette smoking camp.
Day 10 vaping day 10 without a cigarette and not looking back! Lungs so much better already.
What a refreshing and encouraging and positive post! Thank you, Mike Mc.!
Here's a thread that will give you some detailed info on possible harmful chemicals in the vapor and how to avoid them. Keep your temperatures in the lower range.
Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?
Copied and pasted from another site:
Wisegeek 1 gives this definition of diacetyl: A naturally occurring chemical that is produced as a byproduct of yeast during the fermentation process. Used in a wide variety of food products, it is best known as a flavoring in microwave buttered popcorn. Most recently, diacetyl has earned a bad name for being the probable cause of several popcorn factory workers developing what has been dubbed ‘popcorn lung’, or bronchiolitis.
This is a rare and serious fixed obstructive lung disease. In the 1990’s, factory workers in a microwave popcorn plant contracted bronchiolitis, also known as ‘popcorn lung’. It was generally believed that this was the result of inhaling a powdered form of diacetyl, in very high concentrations, which is used in the butter flavoring for the popcorn. While it is generally believed that the cause of popcorn lung was inhalation of powdered diacetyl, this has yet to be proven, as we will see shortly in the information provided by the CDC.
It is important to note that the FDA has posted the following statement about the consumption of diacetyl on their website 2, Diacetyl is added to some foods for flavoring purposes. It is metabolized in mammals, is of low acute toxicity, and the no-adverse-effect level is estimated to be less than .3mg. There is no evidence on the available information on diacetyl that demonstrates or suggests reasonable grounds to suspect a hazard to the public when they are used at levels that are now current or that may reasonably be expected in the future.
The FDA has listed Diacetyl on their Generally Regarded as Safe (GRAS) list of food additive products, yet they have not made a statement regarding the safety of the inhalation of diacetyl in vapor form. As mentioned above, it hasn’t been proven that diacetyl was the cause of the popcorn-lung, as seen by the article published by the CDC 3 to address their views on diacetyl titled Flavorings-Related Lung Disease in which they state Diacetyl is a chemical that was found to be a prominent volatile constituent in butter flavoring and air at the microwave popcorn plant initially investigated. Workers in microwave popcorn manufacturing are exposed to many materials besides diacetyl. Thus, initial studies in a total of 6 microwave popcorn plants were not able to definitely determine if diacetyl exposure contributed to lung disease or was a marker for other hazardous substances that contributed to disease. Current evidence, however, points to diacetyl as one agent that can cause flavorings-related lung disease. While other flavoring ingredients may also play a role. Meaning, while they cannot prove that diacetyl was the cause of the disease, they do consider it a primary area of concern.
The diacetyl inhaled by these factory workers was in powder form, used to add a buttery flavor to the microwave popcorn they were producing. However, when vaping there is obviously no powder being inhaled, so does this concern relate to vaping? It may not be common knowledge, but diacetyl is a common ingredient in tobacco, and has been for over 50 years. Meaning, those who have been smoking cigarettes, have been inhaling diacetyl this whole time. The Critical Reviews in Toxicology 4 group conducted a study simply titled Diacetyl where they concluded, Diacetyl exposures from cigarette smoking far exceeded occupational exposures for most food/flavoring workers. This suggests that previous claims of a significant exposure-response relationship between diacetyl inhalation and respiratory disease in food/flavoring workers were confounded. Further, smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor for bronchiolitis (popcorn lung). To summarize their findings, they found that the levels of diacetyl in tobacco were significantly higher than those found in the factories where the popcorn lung was contracted, bringing into question the diacetyl as the cause of the condition. Further, they found that smoking cigarettes, regardless of the higher levels of diacetyl has not been shown to cause popcorn lung.
Looking at e-juice in relation to tobacco levels of diacetyl the Nicotine & Tobacco Research 5 group conducted a study Evaluation of Electronic Cigarette Liquids and published these results, “The purpose of this study was to evaluate sweet-flavoured electronic cigarette (EC) liquids for the presence of diacetyl (DA). DA was found in 74.2% of the samples. They were lower than the strict safety limits for occupational exposure and 110 times lower compared to smoking respectively.”
This tells us first, that there is diacetyl in analog cigarettes at 110 times higher levels than those found in the e-juices they studied. Secondly this tells us the amounts they found in the e-juice were within the safety limits of exposure. To summarize, studies like those conducted above show that there is a significantly higher amount of diacetyl exposure from smoking than there is in the factories where the production workers got sick, presumably (but not proven to be) due to exposure to diacetyl inhalation.
There are also no documented cases of popcorn-lung being developed from smoking. That being said, when you buy from Mt Baker Vapor we use the highest quality, finest ingredients from right here in the US, which means we can make sure that they are all diacetyl free. We choose not to purchase from suppliers that use it in their flavoring.
As always, I encourage everyone to educate themselves. Read the studies and information listed in the references below, and learn more about the data surrounding the subject of diacetyl. Vape on! Written by: Michelle Harnden
Wisegeek 1 gives this definition of diacetyl: A naturally occurring chemical that is produced as a byproduct of yeast during the fermentation process. Used in a wide variety of food products, it is best known as a flavoring in microwave buttered popcorn. Most recently, diacetyl has earned a bad name for being the probable cause of several popcorn factory workers developing what has been dubbed ‘popcorn lung’, or bronchiolitis.
This is a rare and serious fixed obstructive lung disease. In the 1990’s, factory workers in a microwave popcorn plant contracted bronchiolitis, also known as ‘popcorn lung’. It was generally believed that this was the result of inhaling a powdered form of diacetyl, in very high concentrations, which is used in the butter flavoring for the popcorn. While it is generally believed that the cause of popcorn lung was inhalation of powdered diacetyl, this has yet to be proven, as we will see shortly in the information provided by the CDC.
It is important to note that the FDA has posted the following statement about the consumption of diacetyl on their website 2, Diacetyl is added to some foods for flavoring purposes. It is metabolized in mammals, is of low acute toxicity, and the no-adverse-effect level is estimated to be less than .3mg. There is no evidence on the available information on diacetyl that demonstrates or suggests reasonable grounds to suspect a hazard to the public when they are used at levels that are now current or that may reasonably be expected in the future.
The FDA has listed Diacetyl on their Generally Regarded as Safe (GRAS) list of food additive products, yet they have not made a statement regarding the safety of the inhalation of diacetyl in vapor form. As mentioned above, it hasn’t been proven that diacetyl was the cause of the popcorn-lung, as seen by the article published by the CDC 3 to address their views on diacetyl titled Flavorings-Related Lung Disease in which they state Diacetyl is a chemical that was found to be a prominent volatile constituent in butter flavoring and air at the microwave popcorn plant initially investigated. Workers in microwave popcorn manufacturing are exposed to many materials besides diacetyl. Thus, initial studies in a total of 6 microwave popcorn plants were not able to definitely determine if diacetyl exposure contributed to lung disease or was a marker for other hazardous substances that contributed to disease. Current evidence, however, points to diacetyl as one agent that can cause flavorings-related lung disease. While other flavoring ingredients may also play a role. Meaning, while they cannot prove that diacetyl was the cause of the disease, they do consider it a primary area of concern.
The diacetyl inhaled by these factory workers was in powder form, used to add a buttery flavor to the microwave popcorn they were producing. However, when vaping there is obviously no powder being inhaled, so does this concern relate to vaping? It may not be common knowledge, but diacetyl is a common ingredient in tobacco, and has been for over 50 years. Meaning, those who have been smoking cigarettes, have been inhaling diacetyl this whole time. The Critical Reviews in Toxicology 4 group conducted a study simply titled Diacetyl where they concluded, Diacetyl exposures from cigarette smoking far exceeded occupational exposures for most food/flavoring workers. This suggests that previous claims of a significant exposure-response relationship between diacetyl inhalation and respiratory disease in food/flavoring workers were confounded. Further, smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor for bronchiolitis (popcorn lung). To summarize their findings, they found that the levels of diacetyl in tobacco were significantly higher than those found in the factories where the popcorn lung was contracted, bringing into question the diacetyl as the cause of the condition. Further, they found that smoking cigarettes, regardless of the higher levels of diacetyl has not been shown to cause popcorn lung.
Looking at e-juice in relation to tobacco levels of diacetyl the Nicotine & Tobacco Research 5 group conducted a study Evaluation of Electronic Cigarette Liquids and published these results, “The purpose of this study was to evaluate sweet-flavoured electronic cigarette (EC) liquids for the presence of diacetyl (DA). DA was found in 74.2% of the samples. They were lower than the strict safety limits for occupational exposure and 110 times lower compared to smoking respectively.”
This tells us first, that there is diacetyl in analog cigarettes at 110 times higher levels than those found in the e-juices they studied. Secondly this tells us the amounts they found in the e-juice were within the safety limits of exposure. To summarize, studies like those conducted above show that there is a significantly higher amount of diacetyl exposure from smoking than there is in the factories where the production workers got sick, presumably (but not proven to be) due to exposure to diacetyl inhalation.
There are also no documented cases of popcorn-lung being developed from smoking. That being said, when you buy from Mt Baker Vapor we use the highest quality, finest ingredients from right here in the US, which means we can make sure that they are all diacetyl free. We choose not to purchase from suppliers that use it in their flavoring.
As always, I encourage everyone to educate themselves. Read the studies and information listed in the references below, and learn more about the data surrounding the subject of diacetyl. Vape on! Written by: Michelle Harnden
Most of what needs to be said about this has been said in this thread, but at the risk of being a bit redundant I'll chime in as well. The most conservative choice is to neither smoke nor vape. Vaping hasn't been around long enough for us to be really sure that it doesn't pose risks we have yet to understand, so we're left making reasonable inferences about it.
The next most conservative thing is to vape unflavored liquids and pay attention to the temperatures involved.
That said, I believe that the evidence we have now points strongly toward vaping being pretty safe, much safer than smoking. Diacetyl and related compounds raise a new set of questions, ones we can't conclusively answer at this point, but... I do not believe that diketones are likely to be a significant risk for most vapers.
As has been pointed out already in this thread, cigarette smoke contains significant quantities of diacetyl and other diketones. Quantities much higher than are found in even the richest custard juices. But, while cigarette smoking is clearly very unsafe, the diseases diacetyl and related compounds are suspected of causing are not common in smokers. The first inference we should draw from this, IMHO, is that diacetyl is unlikely to cause these diseases in vapers.
Unfortunately, the world is complicated, and it's possible that vaping diacetyl is more dangerous than inhaling it in cigarette smoke. I don't think there's any evidence this is the case though, so I'm going to stick with that first inference unless some credible evidence calls it into question.
The next most conservative thing is to vape unflavored liquids and pay attention to the temperatures involved.
That said, I believe that the evidence we have now points strongly toward vaping being pretty safe, much safer than smoking. Diacetyl and related compounds raise a new set of questions, ones we can't conclusively answer at this point, but... I do not believe that diketones are likely to be a significant risk for most vapers.
As has been pointed out already in this thread, cigarette smoke contains significant quantities of diacetyl and other diketones. Quantities much higher than are found in even the richest custard juices. But, while cigarette smoking is clearly very unsafe, the diseases diacetyl and related compounds are suspected of causing are not common in smokers. The first inference we should draw from this, IMHO, is that diacetyl is unlikely to cause these diseases in vapers.
Unfortunately, the world is complicated, and it's possible that vaping diacetyl is more dangerous than inhaling it in cigarette smoke. I don't think there's any evidence this is the case though, so I'm going to stick with that first inference unless some credible evidence calls it into question.
I do. But I'm lucky because the flavors that are heavy on those "stuffs" never appealed to me much to begin with, which made it easy to minimize my exposure.
I view Diatecyl, Acetoin and Acetylpropionyl as having Potential for Harm.
And that Harm, if it Exists, can be Minimized thru reduction of Flavoring Percentages for Flavoring that contain them.
I couldn't care less. Smoked a minimum of two packs a day for 45 years and been vaping 4 years and still here. Not counting the endless hours of breathing in secondhand smoke in bars, casinos, restaurants, movie theaters etc.
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