Difference between 5v PV and 3.7 with LR atty?

[pipskicks]

When looking at a 3.7v with a low resistance atty it seems to produce a lot of vapor, looks from the videos to be about the same as some higher voltages.

So my question is what are the benefits of a 5v PV instead of just using an LR atty?

 

[redgirl]

I like just a 5V device with a regular 510 atty much better than 3.7 with a LR atty. To me it's more flavorful and less burnt tasting.

 

[clavit]

Also, you can use cartomizers! I don't think there is such a thing as a LR cartomizer (yet!).

Currently i use both; 3.7volts with LR atty on my Silver Bullet, and cartomizers on a homebuilt 5volt box. The 5volt box produces a much warmer vape than the LR atty.

 

[misterD]

and i think when you use LR the battery suffer much more and discharge and probably die (completely) much sooner.

 

[5cardstud]

I don't think vapor wise there is much difference.

 

[ejoker]

Also, you can use cartomizers! I don't think there is such a thing as a LR cartomizer (yet!).

actually, yes there is

 

[Connman]

I think the 5 volt is a tad warmer vape but I do enjoy the 3.7 once again due to the LR atty. I think they are very close though. Just my

 

[pipskicks]

Those cartomizers seem brand new though. Mad Vapes has them...
But that's an aside.

 

[asdaq]

Huh? I thought the madvapes cartomizers weren't LR. Says 3.2 ohms on the site

 

[Drozd]

there are LR cartomizers...but their ohms arent as low as a LR atty...additionally the lower ohm cartos have shown a greater tendency to burn their filler...

yeah....the LR atties will drain and damage your batteries faster...well damage any 3.7V battery other than a 18650 or a high drain 16340...

but now to the "meat" of the OP's question.... it depends on which atty you're using at 5V...and which LR atty you're using (as there's now several different ones 1.5Ω and 1.8Ω and a few more)...
the thing is that when people talk about that 5V "sweet spot"... what they're really talking about is wattage (which translates into heat and vapor production) with what people are calling the sweet spot as between 8-10W...so you got a joye 510 at 10.87W, 808 carto at 8.33W, slb 510 at 7.81W, 801 at 7.14W, 901 at 6.76W...
the 1.5Ω LR 510 atty at 3.7V...puts out 9.13W....which drops it squarely dead center of that 8-10W range...which is why they say simulated HV...because you're getting HV wattage at regular 3.7V...and while not as hot as a joye 510 at 5V it is hotter than everything else other than the 510..

 

[dreams n chains]

(snip)

yeah....the LR atties will drain and damage your batteries faster...well damage any 3.7V battery other than a 18650 or a high drain 16340...

(snip)

So..... what exactly are you saying doctor?....... how much longer do I have as a 14500 battery with a low resistance atomizer feeding on me......

Dang.... I was really enjoying my first low resistance atomizer..... then I read this. I guess it's back to regular 510 attys for me then.

Anyone have a good source for this info?

And, I wonder what this is saying in regards to those who own the Carlos Juice Box with the home made atomizer?

 

[Drozd]

So..... what exactly are you saying doctor?....... how much longer do I have as a 14500 battery with a low resistance atomizer feeding on me......

Dang.... I was really enjoying my first low resistance atomizer..... then I read this. I guess it's back to regular 510 attys for me then.

Anyone have a good source for this info?

And, I wonder what this is saying in regards to those who own the Carlos Juice Box with the home made atomizer?

Lol...I'd say don't really worry about it...it's not going to be too terribly noticeable...just that you're likely not going to get the advertized duty life out of the 14500 that you would get (the regular joye 510 atty overstresses it too)...say the battery manufacturer says that the battery is good for 500+ charges...you're just not going to get that....and unprotected batteries could be an issue...so overstressing them with a LR atty is even more cause to make sure they're protected batteries..

but for the record...a 1.5Ω LR atty has an amp draw of 2.47A...a standard joye atty has an amp draw of 1.61A...

you've got the AW 14500...and the UF 14500...and we have to figure those seperate...
the AW has a max drain rating of 1.5A....
and the UF 14500 a max drain rating of 1.35A...
so depending on which battery and which atty the question is how much you're overstressing and abusing the battery by...
either one you'll have a longer runtime with a standard 510 atty than a LR...and the UF you'll have more time per charge on new batteries but will overstress them more so they'll loose their ability to charge to full capacity and hold that charge faster...
the quick and dirty with the math:
the AW with a LR atty -> roughly 1094 seconds continuous
with a standard 510 atty-> roughly 1674 seconds continuous
the UF with a LR atty -> roughly 1313 seconds continuous
with a 510 atty -> roughly 2011 seconds continuous

that of course is with brand new batteries...

versus like I said the 18650 batteries or the high drain 16340 battery that I mentioned..
for example
AW 18650 (2200mAh) has a max drain of 4.4A
AW IMR 16340 high drain (550mAh) also a max drain of 4.4A

so both of those the max drain far exceeds the amp draw of a LR atty at 3.7V...so you wont get voltage sag and won't overstress the battery...in other words they'll perform better and give you a true LR effect on a 3.7V battery...

the overall point is I wouldn't worry about it unless you're looking to get optimal performance and best longevity out of your batteries..I know the popular trend is to use the LR atties on eGo batteries...but truth be told...that's a fast way to kill the proprietary eGo batteries..

 

[dreams n chains]

Thank you so much, Drozd!

I'm definitely c/c/p this into my saved info folder. You seem to know your stuff and have been extremely helpful!

I do know that the LR atty is using a lot more e-liquid also.... so.... personally I may return to the regular 510 anyhow.

 

[Drozd]

Thank you so much, Drozd!

I'm definitely c/c/p this into my saved info folder. You seem to know your stuff and have been extremely helpful!

I do know that the LR atty is using a lot more e-liquid also.... so.... personally I may return to the regular 510 anyhow.

yeah it will indeed do that...on a 3.7V battery it's putting out about 9.13W of heat....so right in that HV range and that'll go through more juice for sure...as it's much hotter than the 5.93W of a standard 510 at 3.7V

 

[asdaq]

Havent seen this thread for a bit, thanks drozd for the info! I too like dreams have been really enjoying the LR on a 14500, which I tend to hit for only a few seconds as opposed to the 5+ seconds with a regular atty, so I get a perceived longer battery life from the LR atty, that even when low is satisfying, and end up switching out batts after longer than 24hrs. Before with regualr atty's I couldn't get half a day without feeling the voltage too low.

Funny, as for my eGo I plan on getting cartomizers rather than LR atty's, for more juice capacity and lower cost per unit.

On 18650's the regular atty is all I use for a mellow long evening vape, and I only had the LR on it once or twice. To be fair, since last Sunday it's been almost all the LR on a 14500, close to 90% of the time. So if it kills the batt faster, I dont think I'll mind much on a battery that cost $5 as opposed to an ego batt for 20-ish

 

[Drozd]

Havent seen this thread for a bit, thanks drozd for the info! I too like dreams have been really enjoying the LR on a 14500, which I tend to hit for only a few seconds as opposed to the 5+ seconds with a regular atty, so I get a perceived longer battery life from the LR atty, that even when low is satisfying, and end up switching out batts after longer than 24hrs. Before with regualr atty's I couldn't get half a day without feeling the voltage too low.

No problems...that's why I rough and dirty the math into continious seconds...if you have an average of 3 second or 5 second button presses you can divide the # by that and get an average # of button presses...then it just becomes how long it takes you to get through those..

Funny, as for my eGo I plan on getting cartomizers rather than LR atty's, for more juice capacity and lower cost per unit.

On 18650's the regular atty is all I use for a mellow long evening vape, and I only had the LR on it once or twice. To be fair, since last Sunday it's been almost all the LR on a 14500, close to 90% of the time. So if it kills the batt faster, I dont think I'll mind much on a battery that cost $5 as opposed to an ego batt for 20-ish

that was kinda my point...as long as people know that the LR atties will cause you to have to replace your batteries faster(with the exception of 18650 and high drain 16340)...then I've did what I set out to do..

 

[pipskicks]

Havent seen this thread for a bit, thanks drozd for the info! I too like dreams have been really enjoying the LR on a 14500, which I tend to hit for o

No problems...that's why I rough and dirty the math into continious seconds...if you have an average of 3 second or 5 second button presses you can divide the # by that and get an average # of button presses...then it just becomes how long it takes you to get through those..

Funny, as for my eGo I plan on getting cartomizers rather than LR atty's, for more juice capacity and lower cost per unit.

On 18650's the regular at

that was kinda my point...as long as people know that the LR atties will cause you to have to replace your batteries faster(with the exception of 18650 and high drain 16340)...then I've did what I set out to do..

Thank you too drozd, its going to be a while before I fully understand this (if ever) I really don't know squat about electronics!

 

[asdaq]

I fully agree, this should make things clearer for many people. Drodz, what would the impact be on a 18350 UF using LR?

 

[Drozd]

I fully agree, this should make things clearer for many people. Drodz, what would the impact be on a 18350 UF using LR?

As I don't have an UF 18350 I'll have to look up the mAh on it but then I'll go through the math on it...and show the steps so that hopefully you can see how it all works and is all related..

ok...first lets look at the c raings on batteries (we'll use that later)...we can assume the c raing on a Li-Ion battery is 1C unless otherwise denoted (AW Li-Ion are 2C, *fire brands are 1.5C)....

then there are the actual math problems we use:
for amp draw..... it's voltage/Resistance
for wattage........ it's voltage* voltage/Resistance
and for max drain rate on the battery it's mAh * C rating/1000 at 60min/C rating

so we have the 18350 battery and LR atty...

so amp draw... 3.7V/1.5Ω = 2.47A
wattage.... 3.7V * 3.7V / 1.5Ω = 9.13W
max drain of battery 1200mAh * 1.5C /1000 = 1.8A over 60/1.5C = 40min (so this is the fastest and highest drain you can put on the battery before damage to the cell.....note it's less than the amp draw of the LR atty at 3.7V (so the battery would be overstressed)

now for the rough time guesstimate... if you work that max drain rate kinda backwards you can find your C rate...and then divide 60min by that C rate to find out how long continuous that battery would theoretically last... by dividing the amp draw by the mAh rating to get C rating...
so 2470mAh (that's 2.47A) / 1200 =2.06C
60min/2.06C= 29.13min --> *60 (to get seconds) = 1747 seconds
of course that's on a new battery...since it's being overstressed that will eventually drop...

and since the battery # is an expression of it's size in mm ...ie 18350 is 18mm in diameter x 35mm long and the 0 denotes cylindrical cell...
I'd use a highdrain 16340 instead it's 2mm smaller in diameter and a mm longer (technically *since a protected Li-Ion cell will add 1-2mm to the length due to PCB, and the high drains are a safe chemistry LiMN so there's no PCB (so it's really likely a smaller battery)).... and you won't overstress it...granted it won't last quite as long between charges (about 801 seconds) but it'll give more oomph while operating too (which will likely shorten the length of your button presses)...

as an extra....the high drain 16340 is 550mAh..but with an 8C discharge rating....so...
550mAh * 8C /1000 =4.4A over 60min/8C = 7.5min
hence why it's called high drain because you can safely draw 4.4A from it in 7.5min before any damage to the cell...and it's substantially more than the 2.47A draw of the LR atty at 3.7V..
as far as the time on that high drain:
2470mAh/550mAh =4.49C ...so...60min/4.49C= 13.36min or 801 seconds

an 18650 battery overcomes the amp draw problem by sheer mAh rating...
AW for example 2200mAh * 2C/1000 = 4.4A in 60/2= 30min or 1800 seconds
(I used the AW because there's so many of the UF 18650 batteries...and well following the flashlight people so many of the *fire batteries are a crap shoot of QC (expecially the 3000mAh red and black ones (they test out to be more like 2400mAh))...so the math gets really unreliable on them)

 

[asdaq]

Drodz, thanks, you rock! I'm glad the *fire's at least get 1.5C, I thought they were only 1. The 18350 has 1300mah, given the casing parameter's, it's really quite like a half size or half volume 18650. I was also swayed by the jump in mah from the 16340 (not high drain) for just the little 2mm extra. I do hope it has the oomph too.